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Thread: "Gun Nuts' come packing

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.state-journal.com/news/article/3523892


    Photo By Photo by Kelly Mackey
    Charles Riggs tells the Frankfort City Commission his thoughts on carrying firearms in city buildings during the city commission meeting Monday. State Journal/Kelly Mackey



    Kevin Miley, left, and Brian Sudduth talk outside before the City Commission meeting Monday.

    Miley and Sudduth attended to support the right to carry arms in a city building, something city commissioners say they never wanted to do away with. City Commissioner Lynn Bowers and gun owners say misunderstandings led to a disagreement Monday night about the carrying of firearms.
    The commission discussed last month installing a metal detector to prevent concealed firearms at public meetings. A metal detector at city hall was prompted by the deadly shooting in Kirkwood, Mo., on Feb. 7 that left two police officers and three city officials dead. A reporter and the Kirkwood mayor were also injured.
    Several of the Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed attended the commission meeting Monday openly carrying firearms and wearing T-shirts featuring "Gun Nut for Public Safety."
    Founding member Charles Riggs said signs and metal detectors will not deter those prepared to use a firearm to commit violence.
    "Kirkwood had an absolute prohibition on firearms," Riggs said. "Those with murderous intent are not deterred by the laws of man or God." The gunman in that instance had an ongoing feud with the city and was shot to death by nearby police.
    Brian Sudduth, wearing his .45 caliber Smith & Wesson in a hip holster, said he was concerned the commission would ban citizens from openly carrying firearms in City Hall. Sudduth is a concealed weapons instructor, competitive pistol marksman and hunter.
    City Solicitor Rob Moore said it's legal for citizens to carry firearms in City Hall and Commissioner Lynn Bowers said nobody ever discussed banning guns from the building.
    "I'm not sure that was ever the issue," she said. "It sounds like they think we were about to pass an ordinance that we are not going to have guns in City Hall. I don't think that's where the discussion was going."
    Bowers said she felt the gun owners were trying to start an argument and didn't have all the facts.
    "I think conclusions were jumped to, maybe on both sides," she said.
    The discussion might have been less contentious, Sudduth said, if the gun advocates had approached members of the commission in person.
    "We wouldn't want any member of the City Commission to feel like we offended them or put them on the spot," Sudduth said. "I know that wasn't our intent."
    Bowers said she resented a statement by Riggs, who said the members of the commission were woefully uninformed.
    Riggs said she was taking the comments personally and walked away from the podium before she could respond.
    Bowers said she was civil with Riggs but didn't appreciate his insinuations.
    The gun owners also urged the commission to repeal a 1997 ordinance that banned citizens from carrying concealed firearms in City Hall, meaning only "open carry" was allowed.
    Sudduth said open carry makes it more difficult for people to defend themselves in a situation like the fatal shooting in Kirkwood. Two police officers were the first people killed in Kirkwood and Sudduth said that's because they were the most obvious threat to the gunman.
    "If you allowed concealed carry they wouldn't know who could defend themselves," he said. "Open carry makes you a target."
    However, Bowers and Sudduth say there's still room for dialogue if the issue comes up again.
    Repairs to Briar Cliff
    Other topics at Monday's commission meeting included repairs to Briar Cliff in South Frankfort, where a landslide last month caused a portion of the road to collapse.
    Former City Commissioner Russ Kennedy praised the city officials and work crews for their efforts, saying there has been no interruption in essential services.
    "We never missed a beat," he said.
    The commission approved Monday night an emergency contract for $134,760 to Soil Nail Launcher to assist with reconstruction efforts. The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has offered to assist with the cleanup but rejected a request to provide cost-sharing assistance for the reconstruction effort.
    "The door is not completely shut on this," City Manager Tony Massey said.
    Condemnations to go forward
    The commission also voted to initiate condemnation proceedings against five properties near the Schenkel Lane Cave. Moore said the city has obtained most of the easements required to replace the cave sewer but that the project must move forward so that bids can be advertised.
    The proceedings would be filed today in court, he said. Bowers said the move is an essential part of the city's consent decree with the Environmental Protection Agency.
    "We don't go around condemning properties because it's a fun thing to do," she said. "If we can't comply with the consent decree then all 27,000 of us are going to pay the price. This is not something we have a choice in."
    Moore said a commission to be appointed by the court would decide the amount of damages the property owners are entitled to.


  2. #2
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Guess I'd have to go to KC3 to see what their point is. Doesn't seem like enough (complete)info from the article. However it is good to know they are self defense experts.
    "Open carry makes you a target."
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    To that, I'll respond with this new tidbit I just noticed and commented on in this thread:

    BobCav wrote:

    Hold the presses...(servers?)!!

    Did I just read that right?? A State Supreme Courtopinion that only OC is efficient for self defense?? You can be CERTAIN I'll be using THAT opinon many times in the future and carrying it with me on the old PocketPC!



    The State v. Reid, Supreme Court of Alabama, 1 Ala. 612; 1840 Ala.

    “But the court say that it is a matter which will not admit of legislative regulation, and in order to test the correctness of its opinion, supposes one Legislature to prohibit the bearing arms secretly, and a subsequent Legislature to enact a law against bearing them openly; and then asks the question, whether the first, or last enactment would be unconstitutional. Under the provision of our constitution, we incline to the opinion that the Legislature cannot inhibit the citizen from bearing arms openly, because it authorizes him to bear them for the purposes of defending himself and the State, and it is only when carried openly, that they can be efficiently used for defense.”


  4. #4
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Nice find Bob!!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Thanks! Here's more and I just found the entire text of the ruling. It's a fascinating read! (I just posted the same thing over on AR-15.com)

    Mind you, it's an 1840 ruling, but it still stands and is FASCINATING reading. There was a HUGE movement back then when America was free "to suppress the evil practice of carrying weapons secretly," [Acts of 1838-9] and were wholly supportive of Open Carry as it was recognized for what it is...an extremely effective deterrent to crime. As such, many were being prosecuted for carrying concealed and this text speaks to the legality of BOTH methods and is quite informative.

    Here's the link to the full text:
    www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/state_v_reid.txt

    I love this part regarding the RKBA:


    "But it should not be forgotten, that it is not only
    part of the right that is secured by the constitution; it is the
    right entire and complete, as it existed at the adoption of the
    constitution; and if any portion of that right be impaired,
    immaterial how small the part may be, and immaterial the order of
    time at which it may be done, it is equally forbidden by the
    constitution."
    Let history speak for itself.







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    Maybe some college campus carry groups should get that information too.

  7. #7
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    BobCav wrote:
    I love this part regarding the RKBA:


    "But it should not be forgotten, that it is not only
    part of the right that is secured by the constitution; it is the
    right entire and complete, as it existed at the adoption of the
    constitution; and if any portion of that right be impaired,
    immaterial how small the part may be, and immaterial the order of
    time at which it may be done, it is equally forbidden by the
    constitution."
    Let history speak for itself.


    I have this quote printed and posted under the Hello Kitty AR-15 (picture)I have in my office (next to the pictures of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and a few other things).

    I've liked it since I first read it.


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    longwatch wrote:
    http://www.state-journal.com/news/article/3523892


    Photo By Photo by Kelly Mackey
    Charles Riggs tells the Frankfort City Commission his thoughts on carrying firearms in city buildings during the city commission meeting Monday. State Journal/Kelly Mackey



    Kevin Miley, left, and Brian Sudduth talk outside before the City Commission meeting Monday.

    Miley and Sudduth attended to support the right to carry arms in a city building, something city commissioners say they never wanted to do away with. City Commissioner Lynn Bowers and gun owners say misunderstandings led to a disagreement Monday night about the carrying of firearms.
    The commission discussed last month installing a metal detector to prevent concealed firearms at public meetings. A metal detector at city hall was prompted by the deadly shooting in Kirkwood, Mo., on Feb. 7 that left two police officers and three city officials dead. A reporter and the Kirkwood mayor were also injured.
    Several of the Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed attended the commission meeting Monday openly carrying firearms and wearing T-shirts featuring "Gun Nut for Public Safety."
    Founding member Charles Riggs said signs and metal detectors will not deter those prepared to use a firearm to commit violence.
    "Kirkwood had an absolute prohibition on firearms," Riggs said. "Those with murderous intent are not deterred by the laws of man or God." The gunman in that instance had an ongoing feud with the city and was shot to death by nearby police.
    Brian Sudduth, wearing his .45 caliber Smith & Wesson in a hip holster, said he was concerned the commission would ban citizens from openly carrying firearms in City Hall. Sudduth is a concealed weapons instructor, competitive pistol marksman and hunter.
    City Solicitor Rob Moore said it's legal for citizens to carry firearms in City Hall and Commissioner Lynn Bowers said nobody ever discussed banning guns from the building.
    "I'm not sure that was ever the issue," she said. "It sounds like they think we were about to pass an ordinance that we are not going to have guns in City Hall. I don't think that's where the discussion was going."
    Bowers said she felt the gun owners were trying to start an argument and didn't have all the facts.
    "I think conclusions were jumped to, maybe on both sides," she said.
    The discussion might have been less contentious, Sudduth said, if the gun advocates had approached members of the commission in person.
    "We wouldn't want any member of the City Commission to feel like we offended them or put them on the spot," Sudduth said. "I know that wasn't our intent."
    Bowers said she resented a statement by Riggs, who said the members of the commission were woefully uninformed.
    Riggs said she was taking the comments personally and walked away from the podium before she could respond.
    Bowers said she was civil with Riggs but didn't appreciate his insinuations.
    The gun owners also urged the commission to repeal a 1997 ordinance that banned citizens from carrying concealed firearms in City Hall, meaning only "open carry" was allowed.
    Sudduth said open carry makes it more difficult for people to defend themselves in a situation like the fatal shooting in Kirkwood. Two police officers were the first people killed in Kirkwood and Sudduth said that's because they were the most obvious threat to the gunman.
    "If you allowed concealed carry they wouldn't know who could defend themselves," he said. "Open carry makes you a target."
    However, Bowers and Sudduth say there's still room for dialogue if the issue comes up again.
    Repairs to Briar Cliff
    Other topics at Monday's commission meeting included repairs to Briar Cliff in South Frankfort, where a landslide last month caused a portion of the road to collapse.
    Former City Commissioner Russ Kennedy praised the city officials and work crews for their efforts, saying there has been no interruption in essential services.
    "We never missed a beat," he said.
    The commission approved Monday night an emergency contract for $134,760 to Soil Nail Launcher to assist with reconstruction efforts. The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has offered to assist with the cleanup but rejected a request to provide cost-sharing assistance for the reconstruction effort.
    "The door is not completely shut on this," City Manager Tony Massey said.
    Condemnations to go forward
    The commission also voted to initiate condemnation proceedings against five properties near the Schenkel Lane Cave. Moore said the city has obtained most of the easements required to replace the cave sewer but that the project must move forward so that bids can be advertised.
    The proceedings would be filed today in court, he said. Bowers said the move is an essential part of the city's consent decree with the Environmental Protection Agency.
    "We don't go around condemning properties because it's a fun thing to do," she said. "If we can't comply with the consent decree then all 27,000 of us are going to pay the price. This is not something we have a choice in."
    Moore said a commission to be appointed by the court would decide the amount of damages the property owners are entitled to.
    My question is this: How can Frankfort pass any firearm ordinance if Kentucky has statewide pre-emption on firearms?

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    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    My question is this: How can Frankfort pass any firearm ordinance if Kentucky has statewide pre-emption on firearms?
    They don't follow their oath of office?

  10. #10
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Pointman wrote:
    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    My question is this: How can Frankfort pass any firearm ordinance if Kentucky has statewide pre-emption on firearms?
    Until they try to charge somebody with the Frankfort law, and the DA notifies them they're idiots as Kentucky has full pre-emption, or some group officialy challanges the law in court and gets in removed, there is little to be done.

    In Virginia we have a fellow who was arrested for a bogus city-specific anti-gun law which they had on the books and he got busted for. The local DA discovered VA had full preemption, and now the arrested fellow had a quarter-mil+ lawsuit being filed. Link: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/9374.html
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

  11. #11
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    ChinChin wrote:
    Pointman wrote:
    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    My question is this: How can Frankfort pass any firearm ordinance if Kentucky has statewide pre-emption on firearms?
    Until they try to charge somebody with the Frankfort law, and the DA notifies them they're idiots as Kentucky has full pre-emption, or some group officialy challanges the law in court and gets in removed, there is little to be done.

    In Virginia we have a fellow who was arrested for a bogus city-specific anti-gun law which they had on the books and he got busted for. The local DA discovered VA had full preemption, and now the arrested fellow had a quarter-mil+ lawsuit being filed. Link: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/9374.html
    I love it. Words cannot express my joy at pissant local governments getting sued for attempting to regulate what is beyond their control. I love it.

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