LE Encounter in the Corner District @ UVA

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I couldn't agree more - put very well. I would have attempted to elaborate earlier, but I am in the peoples republic of California until I can make my escape tomorrow morning... :lol:

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ODA 226 wrote:

Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

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Yes, and when I refuse to show ID I am an ambassador for the pro-4th Amendment community as well, which is, to me, all part of the same community.

And refusing to show ID can be done in a polite and non-confrontational manner, as long as you explain why and keep your voice down and be reasonable. You have to learn how to say "No" and to say it nice.

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ODA 226 wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

I wasn't expecting to find a lot of anti-gov't/decent types on a pro constitution type site to tell you the truth.

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To be pro-Constitution demands distrust of government. The "anti-government" label is tossed out too readily by statist sycophants who do not understand the importance of vigilance.

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I don't see any reason to be confrontational with an officer if he is approaching you in a professional and polite manner. While I know that I don't HAVE to give him ID when requested, I will gladly provide it if asked in a courteous manner. To be pro-Constitution does NOT DEMAND distrust of the government! WE, THE PEOPLE, ARE THE GOVERNMENT!

Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

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I agree with 50% of what you say.
I agree, polite (until it's time to NOT be polite)

Remember, the officer is approaching you because he doesn't know if you are a good guy or bad.......
Now, that said....We all agree that not all cops are bad but some are.

When he approaches you, you have to make the same decision he does. Is this cop a good guy or an asshole.

It shouldn't take more than a few seconds for you to make that decision and the rest of the interaction will be based on that.

As far as more than basic answers, my lawyer who I pay $290.00 an hour for advice, says "Never answer questions".
Who do you trust, the guy making 13 bucks an hour that may or may not be friendly...or the fellow you pay 290.00 an hour and is definitely friendly (as long as your checks clear):lol:

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Tomahawk wrote:

ODA 226 wrote:

Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

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Yes, and when I refuse to show ID I am an ambassador for the pro-4th Amendment community as well, which is, to me, all part of the same community.

And refusing to show ID can be done in a polite and non-confrontational manner, as long as you explain why and keep your voice down and be reasonable. You have to learn how to say "No" and to say it nice.

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I agree with you 100% with this. It is a matter of personal choice with the caveat of being mutually polite. This is what the founding fathers intended to create; a respectful and polite society. A society of order.

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Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

I Didn't read that part......Bull S$it!
We open carry for self protection. Not to be ambassadors. We have certain rights and if those rights are mistreated, The officer is going away with anything but a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society.

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peter nap wrote:

I Didn't read that part......Bull S$it!
We open carry for self protection. Not to be ambassadors. We have certain rights and if those rights are mistreated, The officer is going away with anything but a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society.

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Obviously you only read what you want to read without taking in the entire spirit of what is being conveyed. I said "if" the officer is being professional and courteous in his approach, the same spirit of respect should be returned.

While it is indeed true that we all carry for self protection, there are other political and social factors that must be addressed.

Now go and learn how to read and COMPREHEND what is being said in print.

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

xd.40 wrote:

Citizen wrote:

muzz3256 wrote:

I already made up in my mind that I was not going to consent to anything, no ID, no nothing, but he didn't even seem interested in having to talk to me in the first place, just asked me the question, talked on the radio, said havea good night, and left, didn't even give me a chance.

I was happy with the officer, not so much with the sgt.

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I hear you.

If you have time (for a possibly prolonged encounter) and inclination, the next time you canrefuse consent to the encounter itself. And refuse to answer even the first question.

Did you have a chance to activate your voice-recorder?

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Why would you want to encourage that? I understand that you would be will within your rights to not consent to the search, but why even try to dodge the questions? It just makes his and your life hard. Maybe THIS is the reason some of the boys in blue don't like dealing with the law abiding gun owners. One would think that you would want to cooperate with the police. I was raised to understand that you respect them and answer any questions they have within reason; and this can be debated to death - what is reasonable? Maybe I am one of the few raised that way...?

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Agree 100%

TJ

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WOW!:what:TJ and I actually AGREE on something! :lol:

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peter nap wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

bohdi wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

Totally agree. I always thought it was the drug dealing thugs who gave the cops a hard time, I guess I thought wrong. I brought this up last week and was told that cops plant evidence in your vehicle if you allow them to search it. Then I was told that k9 officers routinely cause their dogs to false hit on a car so they could illegally search it. It's not all members on this forum that think like that, but there are more than I ever thought would be on a "good law abiding" citizen type forum like this.

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What were you expecting to find on a forum like this? Reckless law breakers? Most people I know have come here to be educated. There are good and bad people in every occupation, law enforcement is no exception to that, so I cannot say I am surprised by your insight - who told you about the k9 officer information? I've heard about LEO's planting things but I thought that was Hollywood stuff....

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It was brought up in another post. I wasn't expecting to find a lot of anti-gov't/decent types on a pro constitution type site to tell you the truth.

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Vic, I waas just starting to think there may be some hope for you.

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Tomahawk wrote:

ODA 226 wrote:

Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

Click to expand...

Yes, and when I refuse to show ID I am an ambassador for the pro-4th Amendment community as well, which is, to me, all part of the same community.

And refusing to show ID can be done in a polite and non-confrontational manner, as long as you explain why and keep your voice down and be reasonable. You have to learn how to say "No" and to say it nice.

Click to expand...

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Wow!!

This thread is going great. Three pages and very little harsh commentary or name calling. No arguments worthy of the name.

Thanks for all the comments on my posts. And thank you for all the other contributions. (Some real chutzpah thanking people for contributions on a thread that wasn't even mine to start with, huh? )

There are so many to which I'd like to reply, mainly to expand on concepts presented. I won't have time, though. Please don't feel slighted if I post something, but didn't directly quote you.

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nitrovic wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

ODA 226 wrote:

Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

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Yes, and when I refuse to show ID I am an ambassador for the pro-4th Amendment community as well, which is, to me, all part of the same community.

And refusing to show ID can be done in a polite and non-confrontational manner, as long as you explain why and keep your voice down and be reasonable. You have to learn how to say "No" and to say it nice.

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I still don't understand why we (as law abiding citizens presumebly) have to say "no". The cops get a bunch of grief from criminals who are doing the community harm, why give them grief when we are supposed to be the good guys?

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You don't have to say "no". It is a personal choice...the beautyof the great country that we live in.

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Citizen wrote:

Wow!!

This thread is going great. Three pages and very little harsh commentary or name calling. No arguments worthy of the name.

Thanks for all the comments on my posts. And thank you for all the other contributions. (Some real chutzpah thanking people for contributions on a thread that wasn't even mine to start with, huh? )

There are so many to which I'd like to reply, mainly to expand on concepts presented. I won't have time, though. Please don't feel slighted if I post something, but didn't directly quote you.

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nitrovic wrote:

muzz3256 wrote:

I was polite to the officer because he was acting professional, as far as a duty to act, being a 911 dispatcher (actually his dispatcher the day before, although he did not know this, he did not kow me.), I can say that when we get a call about things, we have to put the call in and give it to an officer, now protocol for anyone with a weapon is 2 officers, the fact that only 1 showed up hints to me that the officer really didn't see me as a threat. For all I know the citizen that may have called me on was standing around the corner watching and asked to talk to the officer after the interaction, I don't know.

Had the officer come up with an agressive or unprofessional attitude (such as the sergeants attitude), I may have taken Citizens approach. I was already prepared not to give him any information, not to be uncooperative, but because I don't have to do so, I'm not violating the law.

Where I was sitting was basically in a flock of sheeple, and I have no doubt that someone called me in (however thats not going to stop me from exercising my rights), I was happy that no one showed up in force, that happened to me a few years ago when I started open carrying, the whole hands up, geting on the ground thing, in the same place, but after several complaints and threat of lawsuit the police got the picture.

I have always acted under the premise of "You must give respect to get respect.", and this officer showed me more respect out of any other officer I've ran into lately, so I had no problem answering his question. I think that I had a good interaction, maybe educated the public a little by them seeing an officer talking to me and not arresting me, with the exception of the sgt's attitude, I'll score it as a win.

-muzz

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I know this is off topic a bit, but I was in your neck of the woods at the walk shopping plaza downtown and was shocked by all of the homeless drunks hanging around. What the heck is going on down there? The cops just passed them up without even doing anything. That place was such a nice area a while ago.

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I'll help you bring it back on topic.

They are too busy out looking to bust the chops of law abiding citizens who are legally open carrying.

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peter nap wrote:

Please remember this: Everytime you open carry, you become an "ambassador" for the pro-2A and RKBA community. By being courteous to the officer, you will leave a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society. Just my .02.

I Didn't read that part......Bull S$it!
We open carry for self protection. Not to be ambassadors. We have certain rights and if those rights are mistreated, The officer is going away with anything but a lasting impression on him that members of our community are kind, outstanding citizens that willingly cooperate with all levels of law enforcement to make our commonwealth a safer and more "polite" society.

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I open carry for many reasons, I could CC, I have the permit, but I want to show people and police that not all people that carry guns are bad, so while I can CC just for protection, I OC not only for self protection, but to be a good represenative of the 2A and RKBA.

I like educating people, even if it's just by showing them with my actions that I'm a responsible gun owner and not some evil person who wants to hurt them or their family, not to mention that OCing is a great crime deterant in my opinion, against crimes that could have occured to me or people around. Someone may think twice about commiting a crime if they know an armed person is standing right there.

As far as volunteering information, my standard policy is not to unless I have to, I'll give my someone my name, if they ask nicely, but thats about it. I got pulled over tonight on my way to a friends house, 53 in a 35. The first question he asked me is "Do you know why I pulled you over tonight?" and my reply was "I would like you to tell me why.". was is being a smart alec? Maybe, but I'm not gonna play gotcha games with the police, he's gonna have to tell me why he pulled me over, I'm not giving information. He was nice to me and let me off with a warning, so I guess he didn't take it the wrong way, but being polite is what it's all about in my opinion. Had he'd been an ass about it, I would not have been so nice about it.

nitro, as far as the homeless population goes, it has exploded in the last year or two, they normally hang out around Lee Park, most of them don't cause problems, however there are a few that get real mean to people, so be careful around them. There was an incident a few months ago where a homeless man beat the tar outta some dude for not giving him change, so they can be dangerous. And now that the city and county have passed the no pan-handling ordaninces, they are real touchy.

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mobeewan wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

muzz3256 wrote:

I was polite to the officer because he was acting professional, as far as a duty to act, being a 911 dispatcher (actually his dispatcher the day before, although he did not know this, he did not kow me.), I can say that when we get a call about things, we have to put the call in and give it to an officer, now protocol for anyone with a weapon is 2 officers, the fact that only 1 showed up hints to me that the officer really didn't see me as a threat. For all I know the citizen that may have called me on was standing around the corner watching and asked to talk to the officer after the interaction, I don't know.

Had the officer come up with an agressive or unprofessional attitude (such as the sergeants attitude), I may have taken Citizens approach. I was already prepared not to give him any information, not to be uncooperative, but because I don't have to do so, I'm not violating the law.

Where I was sitting was basically in a flock of sheeple, and I have no doubt that someone called me in (however thats not going to stop me from exercising my rights), I was happy that no one showed up in force, that happened to me a few years ago when I started open carrying, the whole hands up, geting on the ground thing, in the same place, but after several complaints and threat of lawsuit the police got the picture.

I have always acted under the premise of "You must give respect to get respect.", and this officer showed me more respect out of any other officer I've ran into lately, so I had no problem answering his question. I think that I had a good interaction, maybe educated the public a little by them seeing an officer talking to me and not arresting me, with the exception of the sgt's attitude, I'll score it as a win.

-muzz

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I know this is off topic a bit, but I was in your neck of the woods at the walk shopping plaza downtown and was shocked by all of the homeless drunks hanging around. What the heck is going on down there? The cops just passed them up without even doing anything. That place was such a nice area a while ago.

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I'll help you bring it back on topic.

They are too busy out looking to bust the chops of law abiding citizens who are legally open carrying.

Click to expand...

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Citizen wrote:

Wow!!

This thread is going great. Three pages and very little harsh commentary or name calling. No arguments worthy of the name.

Thanks for all the comments on my posts. And thank you for all the other contributions. (Some real chutzpah thanking people for contributions on a thread that wasn't even mine to start with, huh? )

There are so many to which I'd like to reply, mainly to expand on concepts presented. I won't have time, though. Please don't feel slighted if I post something, but didn't directly quote you.

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Well it's my post, so thanks to all the contributions, and leaving the method of slamming people somewhere else.

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muzz3256 wrote:

I open carry for many reasons, I could CC, I have the permit, but I want to show people and police that not all people that carry guns are bad, so while I can CC just for protection, I OC not only for self protection, but to be a good represenative of the 2A and RKBA.

I like educating people, even if it's just by showing them with my actions that I'm a responsible gun owner and not some evil person who wants to hurt them or their family, not to mention that OCing is a great crime deterant in my opinion, against crimes that could have occured to me or people around. Someone may think twice about commiting a crime if they know an armed person is standing right there.

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BRAVO!!!!!:celebrate

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First, let me saythere are a number of valid, quite legitimate responses. As I mentioned early on, muzz3256 handled it fine. There are circumstances where I would be very cooperative with anLEO, say while on my way to a business appointment.

There are a number of angles to the question about what is an appropriate way to respond to an LEO's inquiry.

Here is onetake on it. If it is totally legitimate for a police officer to ask a few polite questions, how is it any less than exactly the same legitimacy for a citizen to poliltely decline to answer them?

If it is totally legitimate for a police officer to contact a citizen in a consensual encounter, how is it any less legitimate for a citizen torefuse consent to the encounter.

To give moreweight, validity, or legitimacy tothe police officer than the citizen is inviting trouble.

Heh, heh, heh. Trouble that I have personally experienced, now that I think about it.