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Thread: Transportation Across State Lines

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    Hi, I'm new here and I have some questions about travelling with a handgun, that I hope someone can help me with.

    I live in Tennessee, and have a carry permit from this state. I will be starting a new job soon which will require much travel. Some of it into/through states which do not recognize my permit, including such states as New York/Illinois which essentially do not permit any type of carry, as I understand it.

    My plan, so far, is to carry as usual in the states that recognize my Tn. permit, and to lock up my handgun before I enter into those states that do not recognize it. I plan to put it (unloaded, slide locked open, and with a locking trigger guard), in a locked hardshell case, which I also plan to lock onto an interior stuctural part of the vehicle via a cable lock. There is no trunk on my truck.

    An area of concern is whether or not I need to unload the magazine? And can I store the ammunition/loaded mag. in the same locked case as the handgun, or should I get another case in which to store the ammo/loaded magazine?

    Does anyone here face similar circumstances? And, if so, how do you transport legally into/through states which do not recognize your permits?

    In most cases I will not really have a destination, so to speak, other than back home in Tn., (per: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum61/196.html ). My journeys will originate and end in Tn., however there will times that I must stop in anti-gun states. In other words, my journey will be interrupted by a stop in an anti-gun state, perhaps even overnight stops. So, my question here is: as long as I leave my gun locked up as previously described, is that legal?

    When I'm travelling through REALLY anti-gun areas such as (DC, NY, CA, etc), would it be more prudent to actually remove the slide from my handgun (before locking it up)? Therefore putting it into an unassembled state?

    Also, I've made it my personal policy that in the event that I get pulled over, I show my Drivers License (DL) and my Handgun Carry Permit (HCP); just trying to be courteous to LEO's. Although in some states this is required by law, Ive always planned to show it in Carry permitted states. Should I offer this same courtesy to LEO's in an anti-gun state? Even though the handgun will be legally locked up (inaccessible) for transportation? I DO NOT want to invite problems.

    My objective is remain legal in all ways, and in every state, but at the same time I DO NOT wish to give up my right to carry where I'm legally entitled to do so.

    Thanks for any help/insight you folks can offer, and I apologize for the long post.
    BlackBeard

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    Look at the Travelers' Map on the main page - you will be able to chart your course thru states which either accept your permit, or allow open or concealed carry without a permit. Some states you will have to lock up your gun unloaded in the trunk; fed. immunity theoretically provided by 18 USC 926A.

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    I would not, under any circumstances show a conceal carry permit to any officer for any reason in a state you cannot carry in, period. That is tantamount to saying, "Hey, I have a firearm in my car. Would you like to search my vehicle and see if there is any way possible that you can come up with any reason to seize my firearm and/or write me a ticket for illegal/improper transportation?" Actually, I would be quite careful to NOT show it even incidently in such states. Especially problematic in several areas of IL.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Thank you, DeepDiver. After giving this some thought, I tend to agree with your response. Like I said, I am not trying to invite problems, I only want to avoid them.

    Thanks again, for taking time to reply,
    BlackBeard

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    I had posed a similar set of questions about this very thing in another forum and they kindly pointed me here. In one thread, with only four postings by three people, my questions were answered. Thanks so much.



  6. #6
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    BlackBeard wrote:
    My plan, so far, is to carry as usual in the states that recognize my Tn. permit, and to lock up my handgun before I enter into those states that do not recognize it. I plan to put it (unloaded, slide locked open, and with a locking trigger guard), in a locked hardshell case, which I also plan to lock onto an interior stuctural part of the vehicle via a cable lock. There is no trunk on my truck.
    I haven't driven OTR in about 10 yrs so the laws may have changed....at the time I was driving, it was against federal law to have a pistol in a commercial vehicle.
    You didn't indicate whether or not you were driving an "18 wheeler"...just thought I'd throw that out there.

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    Comp-tech wrote:
    BlackBeard wrote:
    My plan, so far, is to carry as usual in the states that recognize my Tn. permit, and to lock up my handgun before I enter into those states that do not recognize it. I plan to put it (unloaded, slide locked open, and with a locking trigger guard), in a locked hardshell case, which I also plan to lock onto an interior stuctural part of the vehicle via a cable lock. There is no trunk on my truck.
    I haven't driven OTR in about 10 yrs so the laws may have changed....at the time I was driving, it was against federal law to have a pistol in a commercial vehicle.
    You didn't indicate whether or not you were driving an "18 wheeler"...just thought I'd throw that out there.
    Could you point me to whatever law made it illegal to have a pistol in a commercial vehicle at anytime in the past? I have heard that it was at one time but NO ONE can find anything that has ever been written saying so. According to the DOT, it never has been & there are no plans to make it so.

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    Leader Wrote:
    According to the DOT, it never has been & there are no plans to make it so.
    Not sure where it might be listed today (if it still exists) but, it WAS in the green Fed DOT manual that every trucking company handed out to drivers.
    Not sure if I have one of the old manuals around or not...if I run across one, I'll scan and post it.

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    FWIW, a friend of mine drove OTR for about 3 years ending about six months ago. He was doing a local run last fall just before he quit and wanted me to ride along. He told me I couldn't bring my gun because it was a federal violation to carry a firearm in a semi used for commercial purposes. He told me it didn't matter if it were loaded, unloaded, broken down, cased or anything. Can't have one in any condition. So, he was taught in his CDL school about 4 years ago that it is illegal. I never asked for documentation on that. Now he did specify "semi" not "commercial vehicle" so I don't know if there is any distinction there or if he was maybe overstating something.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    FWIW, a friend of mine drove OTR for about 3 years ending about six months ago. He was doing a local run last fall just before he quit and wanted me to ride along. He told me I couldn't bring my gun because it was a federal violation to carry a firearm in a semi used for commercial purposes. He told me it didn't matter if it were loaded, unloaded, broken down, cased or anything. Can't have one in any condition. So, he was taught in his CDL school about 4 years ago that it is illegal. I never asked for documentation on that. Now he did specify "semi" not "commercial vehicle" so I don't know if there is any distinction there or if he was maybe overstating something.
    Well a lot of instructors here in MI are teaching that open carry is illegal too.

    I was a truck driver for many years & always *HEARD* it was illegal but NO ONE could EVER show it to me in black & white. I have searched for it for many years & NEVER found it. Many many truck drivers carry. The problem was and still is, if your license to carry is good in the state you happen to be in. More & more states honer other state permits now so it's getting easier to carry.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well, this made me curious so I started to looking around the net. I found a truck driver's forum where they had a few threads on this issue with the "I heards" with lots of people stating that there is nothing special preventing carry of a firearm in a commercial vehicle. That they are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

    This is bolstered by Ohio statute I ran across regarding obligation to notify LEO if you have a CCW and a loaded firearm in the vehicle or on your person. After going through the general terms on this it made specific requirements for commercial drivers being stopped or inspected by DOT employees. Obviously, if it were against the law for people in commercial vehicles to carry a firearm, Ohio would have no need in their current statutes to make specific requirements as to commercial drivers who are carrying.

    I think this myth is busted.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well, this made me curious so I started to looking around the net. I found a truck driver's forum where they had a few threads on this issue with the "I heards" with lots of people stating that there is nothing special preventing carry of a firearm in a commercial vehicle. That they are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

    This is bolstered by Ohio statute I ran across regarding obligation to notify LEO if you have a CCW and a loaded firearm in the vehicle or on your person. After going through the general terms on this it made specific requirements for commercial drivers being stopped or inspected by DOT employees. Obviously, if it were against the law for people in commercial vehicles to carry a firearm, Ohio would have no need in their current statutes to make specific requirements as to commercial drivers who are carrying.

    I think this myth is busted.
    Now, to try to bust the myth that it's illegal to openly carry a handgun in DC...

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    A federal law that doesn't allow commercial driver to carry is a myth. I researched this quite extensively when I was driving OTR. The only law that applies to guns in commercial vehicles only applies to passengers.

    From:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

    (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

    So if I was a driver of a commercial vehicle any passenger I took on would be required to hand over his firearm to me. It does not restrict the driver.

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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    A federal law that doesn't allow commercial driver to carry is a myth. I researched this quite extensively when I was driving OTR. The only law that applies to guns in commercial vehicles only applies to passengers.

    From:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

    (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

    So if I was a driver of a commercial vehicle any passenger I took on would be required to hand over his firearm to me. It does not restrict the driver.
    The code section you quote is from Title 18 Sec 922 and deals with firearms transport BY DEALERS, IMPORTERS, ETC....this is NOT a DOT reglutaion concerning commercial drivers of freight haulers.
    In any case, your "handover his firearm to me" comment is WAY off base....the "pilot, captain, conductor or operator" comment in the quoted code section is talking about carriers of passengers....ships, planes, trains etc....not commercial freight movers....they are not permitted to transport passengers for hire.
    I may have mis-worded my comment when I stated "a federal law"....there was, at one time, a DOT regulation preventing handguns from being carried by truck drivers....I've read it myself many times over the years from the DOT handbook that nearly all trucking companies hand out to drivers....again, I haven't driven OTR for over 10 years and haven't seen a recent copy of the handbook.

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    Comp-tech wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    A federal law that doesn't allow commercial driver to carry is a myth. I researched this quite extensively when I was driving OTR. The only law that applies to guns in commercial vehicles only applies to passengers.

    From:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

    (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

    So if I was a driver of a commercial vehicle any passenger I took on would be required to hand over his firearm to me. It does not restrict the driver.
    The code section you quote is from Title 18 Sec 922 and deals with firearms transport BY DEALERS, IMPORTERS, ETC....this is NOT a DOT reglutaion concerning commercial drivers of freight haulers.
    In any case, your "handover his firearm to me" comment is WAY off base....the "pilot, captain, conductor or operator" comment in the quoted code section is talking about carriers of passengers....ships, planes, trains etc....not commercial freight movers....they are not permitted to transport passengers for hire.
    I may have mis-worded my comment when I stated "a federal law"....there was, at one time, a DOT regulation preventing handguns from being carried by truck drivers....I've read it myself many times over the years from the DOT handbook that nearly all trucking companies hand out to drivers....again, I haven't driven OTR for over 10 years and haven't seen a recent copy of the handbook.

    Actually the code applies to any transportation of firearms other than toholders of FFLsby commercial carriers as freight or as baggage with a passenger. It applies to interstateplanes, ships, trains and buses. From this law the FAA regulations come from that require a airline passenger to check his firearm and fill out a form.

    The comment about a passenger handing over his firearm to me was meant to be somewhat sarcastic. I was trying to pointout thata LEO searching for a law that didn't allow a commercial driver to carry a firearm would be really stretching trying to apply this law. However the comment would definitely apply when it comes to the driver of a interstate commercial bus as a legal alternative for a passengerto checkinghis firearmin baggage with a written notice to the company.. By the way, Greyhound does not allow passengers to transport firearms neither does Amtrak even though it is Federally funded. The only time the handing over of a firearm to theoperator would work is if a charter bus, train,or planecompany allowed it or possibly on board a ship like a passenger ferry.

    I have not seen a green book from over 10 years ago. I have looked through newer ones and can not find any such regulations.


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