imported post
Very new to Open Carry. Have been lurking in forums for some time now. I have recently been speaking to a Sr. officer at a local PD and here is our corrispondence so far.
6/18/2008 11:31 AM - Sent to Sr. Officer
Mr. xxxxxx,
I took your CPL class back in Jan. 2008. You had said we could bother you with any questions later if we had any. My question is not with concealed carry but with open carry. I have done some research and read many, many fellow Michigan residents experiences with it and would like your take on it. Besides the normal, " it makes you more of a target ", " Its just not socially acceptable " , " That man with the gun must want to be an officer or something " , " He on some kinda of power trip? ". With the research I have done most of the trouble seems to come from, not to be harsh, fellow residents that are uninformed or brainwashed that guns kill people, when in fact people kill people (one of the great many arguments).
What I'd like to know is your take on open carry and if you as an on duty/off duty sworn officer would do if you came across a law abiding citizen openly carry his firearm.
Thanks in advance for your response.
*From Me
PS Attached is a document with a summary of what I have found on the websites I have visited for research.
(its the document you see earlier in this thread about open carry that was suggested to send to your local police chief)
Response from Sr. Officer - 6/20/2008 8:35 AM
Hi xxxxx,
Nice to hear from you again. Open Carry Eh? Yes it is legal in Michigan, there is no state law prohibiting anyone from carrying an exposed firearm in public. Now that is not such the case for local laws. Some Cities, Townships & or Villages have local ordinances that may prohibit open carry in public, but at most, you would be looking at a misdemeanor violation if convicted, not a felony charge.
I have attached our most recent (June) MSP Legal Update No. 66, it has some basic and frequently asked questions & answers regarding CPL & Firearms from the Law Enforcement aspect, and what is legal and what is not. This clearly states open carry in public is legal; see it for yourself (top right column). I have the MSP legal updates sent to my E-Mail & I keep them all. The April issue does not address any firearm related topics.
As far as my reaction as a responding Officer to a man with a gun call where he is carrying open. I would handle it as an armed citizen with all the safety precautions. I would use loud verbal commands for him to get into a safe position (probably prone out on the ground) and then cuff & disarm him. After that I would check his identity, check the registration of the pistol and as long as he legally owned the firearm and was not brandishing it in any way or violating any other laws, give him his firearm back (unloaded) and let him go.
Now after he is let go and turns the corner, another cop may get a call on the same thing, he (man with the gun) may go through the same thing again, & again, & again – is it worth all that?
Open Carry is not advisable and I would recommend that you stay away from it. It has way to many disadvantages vs. any advantages. As Police Officers in uniform, we undergo many hours of weapon retention training. Most Police Officers shot in the line of Duty are shot with their own pistol, that the Bad guy took whch away from them.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION STRAIGHT TO THE POING – YES OPEN CARY IS LEGAL IN MICHIGAN, WITH OR WITHOUT A CPL.
Hope that helped out some.
Take Care,
My Response to that email - 6/20/2008 5:13 PM
Mr. xxxxxx,
Thank you for your timely response.
In regards to what you said here, " Now that is not such the case for local laws. Some Cities, Townships & or Villages have local ordinances that may prohibit open carry in public, but at most, you would be looking at a misdemeanor violation if convicted, not a felony charge. Wouldn't State Law "preempt" any local laws regarding firearms because of this, "
3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law.
In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.
Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. "
I am not a lawyer and could be misreading or not understanding it correctly, but with MCL 123.1102 any local law regarding, " the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms " is "void" for the lack of better word because of the Michigan Compiled Law?
Thanks again for your information regarding all of this. I await your response.
His response from previous email - 06/21/2008 1:07 AM
xxxxx,
I am sorry for the short response, I have been going 100 MPH in 10 different directions these last few days. But as far as state law preempting local laws, there is no state statute prohibiting open carry – therefore it can not be preempted if it does not exist. There is no law saying you may or may not. So if there is no law on the books prohibiting something, it is legal to do.
I have not gone through your entire response just yet. I will though and get back to you on it.
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That so far has been our conversation. I will post more when we speak some more.
Anything thing else you believe I should point out to him? or mention?
Whats your thoughts on this so far?
Thanks
