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SUCCESSFUL FREEDOM BASED ARGUMENT

I_Hate_Illinois

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OmSigDAVID wrote:
HE WHO DEFINES THE ARGUMENT, in the first place,and who selects its nomenclature and semantics usually wins that argument. Most arguments are not won or lost upon the basis of sound and logical reasoning, but rather by the EMOTIONAL responses of the audience.

Accordingly, I suggest that in our writing we speak of the pro-freedom side of the debate and the anti-freedom side, or the suppressionist side of it.

Freely speak of government DISCRIMINATING as to which citizen can defend his life and who is screwed out of his constitutional right to defend his life from the violence of man or beast.

Instead of speaking of "strict" gun control, refer to "severe" or "oppressive" or "harsh" or "intimidating" gun control that results in effective loss of citizen's rights of self defense. Remember that "gun control" is victim disarmament.

Remember that guns are life-saving emergency equipment.

Remember that gun control is O.S.H.A. (US Labor Dept. Occupational Safety and Health Administration) for violent criminals protecting them on-the-jobfrom the defenses of their victims.

U can raise the question:

" If criminals are willing to ignore the laws against ROBBERY;
if criminals are willing to disregard the laws against MURDER,
HOW can we convince them to OBEY gun control laws ? "

U can refer to the plaintive and futile appeals for help from Kitty Genovese as she was being stabbed to death for about an hour, in NYC, when noone even called police. U can refer to Reginald Denny being stomped in the streets of California on national TV for maybe 45 minutes (??) with no help from police who fled the scene.

These are some of the possibilties.

Use them in good health and in freedom

David
Welcome to the forum, David. A very insightful and straight forward 1st post, by the way. I liked it a lot and would be very interested to read your paper. Again, welcome and don't let anyone discourage you from posting.
 

OmSigDAVID

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BobCav wrote:
David, thanks for the reply. I understood what you were saying. Often we get a lot of fence-sitters and compromisers, as well as the occasional anti-gun or anti-OC trolls,that hop on here to spout their "manifesto" for their first post and then leave. Glad you're not one of them!

I agree, the impassionedargument is often the only one that will stir the soul of another, motivating and inspiringthose who would listento find thatgreatness that lies deep within. It is far more effective thanhard statistical data and it is my style of choice. It's also a very effective and efficientsorting tool!

"There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the long run the sword will always be conquered by the spirit." - Napoleon Bonaparte

I grew up in the northern provinces of the DPRNJ myself (Bergen Kounty - Demokratic Peoples Republik of New Jersey) and only escaped to join the Navy in 84. I only go back visit my family on "VisitingDays" and bringcare packages from the outside world.

It's funny you mentioned OSHA. I can certainly understand safety as it was paramount in the Navy and saved my ass many times. Enginerooms are inherently deadly places andthere's no pointin being careless.My last job was a Quality Manager (ISO 9000-2001 Certified Internal Auditor) andDivisional Safety Officer (OSHA 30 hr. Certified). I always HATED the Safety Guy and now I was he! Having been through the OSHA course withmy head in that damn book all the time, I soon realized that thoughsomeof it does make sense in an industrial environment, there is so much more that is just plain RIDICULOUS! It seemed to me to be nothing more than the intentional and methodical micromanagement and legislation of common sense andgovernmental interference withDarwinian natural selection!

I say remove all the safety devices and warning labels from EVERYTHING and let the problem take care of itself!

A retired New York Lawyer, huh? Always good to have a friend inside the "occupied territory"!I'd be very interested in reading that paper you wrote. Would you post it here for all to read?

What is your take of Lord Bloomberg's political ambitions and his Coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns?

My pleasure, Bob. I will be eager to join in Napoleon 's observation. I see no room for compromise in the 2A. As someone put it: if you have a yard sale, you can negotiate and compromise on the price ofold furniture, but not on whether your mother or your child is for sale. Your choice of argument depends upon to whom it is addressed, whether it is a court of law or an informal group of laymen.

Incidentally, tho I have not been to Reno, I LOVE Las Vegas ! I 've had very joyful times there; the air is rife with FREEDOM ! To MY mind, the only thing wrong with it is that I don 't go there enuf.

As to OSHA, I believe that we shud all Occupy our time with being Safe and Healthy with all necessary emergency equipment at hand. As someone put it: " its better to HAVE a gun and not NEED it, than to NEED a gun and not HAVE it. " I love your vu on industrial Darwinism !

I 'll be very happy to post my paper here, but I saw some notation of a limit on the number of available characters (if I remember correctly); is there room for 8 pages of single spaced print ?

As to the occupied territory, I am hopeful that with the aid of the USSC, the Supreme Law of the Land will be applied as the Founders intended, wiping out all interference with civilian possession of defensiveguns. On the Aristotelian Square Of Logical Opposition, the 2A is a "universal negative" proposition: "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED " [emphasis added] Therefore, if it IS infringed in any degree, however slight, then the Supreme Law of the Land has been violated. The USSC has made it clear that any law inconsistent with the Constitution is null and void.


I 'm sure that Bloomberg wishes to aggregate as much political power as he can. I don 't see much of a future for him, politically. I don 't believe that he 'll run for the presidency. If he did, he 'd be the antithesis of Ross Perot, splitting the anti-freedom electorate.


David
 

OmSigDAVID

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We will persist !

Success is inevitable !!!

I also have other KABA material in which u might be interested.

I m going to check in, now.

A friend of mine has to go to court tomorrow,

and I'm going to accompany him.

David
 

VAopencarry

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Well I guess members here haven't been paying attention and needed the information in David's post. Heck I thought it was common sense and regurgitated information. I think it is arrogant for someone whose first post is endowing us with their kowledge.
 

BobCav

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VAopencarry wrote:
Well I guess members here haven't been paying attention and needed the information in David's post. Heck I thought it was common sense and regurgitated information. I think it is arrogant for someone whose first post is endowing us with their kowledge.
Ididn't take it that way. Admittedly we certainly do get some like that, but I didn't get that sense from David. We havecertainly been paying attention, but how manymembers do we have here that have practiced law and shared their perspective as openly as this? Few, if any.

I always appreciate a new perspective. In rejection, I stand to lose the total knowledge. But in taking the chance of acceptance, even if by chance I already knew 99% of what is stated, I still stand to gain that 1% and will be better off for it.

His paper I'm reformatting has some incredible points and I appreciate his efforts and willingness to share. I've already gainedway more than 1%, I can tell you that!

We've all learned something from one another.I feelthis was just his way of introduction, sharing some of his personal success tactics, like bringing a gift to a friends house when you visit.
 

BobCav

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OmSigDAVID wrote:
BobCav wrote:
David, happy to reformat for you. PM sent!

Bob,

has it arrived ?

I sent myself a CC thereof, but I did not receive it.

David

David, I never received the e-mail, but did get it via PM. Reformatting in progress. I'll copy back to you for corrections when complete!

Excellent paper, by the way!
 

Flintlock

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VAopencarry wrote:
Well I guess members here haven't been paying attention and needed the information in David's post. Heck I thought it was common sense and regurgitated information. I think it is arrogant for someone whose first post is endowing us with their kowledge.

What difference does it make how many posts someone has on this site to be able to provide information you may consider "regurgitated?"With that logic, virtually all subject matter on this forumis repeated and redundant.Do you think that your well over 1500 posts makes you an authority on the subject or something? To me, these comments from you are the opitome of arrogance and self-righteousness. This is aninternet forum. Most people that post here have never met one another and have no idea as to the backgroundor lives of the otherposters.I don't consider anyone that posts here an "authority" on the subject, although there are a great many like-minded folk that do provide insightful information and bring along a slightly different perspective that will only help all of us become more knowledgeable in our life-long fight of the antis.

We are on the same side. Please stop belittling and scorning our new posters because you think you are aware ofsomething that he or she may be posting. There are new posters here and young posters that may be interested to read it and some veteran posters thatmay need refreshers.In any case, whether the information is known or not, it doesn't hurt for us all to welcome another to the group and learn from one another.

I don't think the OP was being cavalier or disdainful and I wouldn't be surprised if he did not have a postitive outlook on this forum when he is attacked on his first post.
 

irfner

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SeaTac, Washington, USA
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Nice post David. You make some very good points which I for one sometimes overlook. It seems like you fall into the text messaging mode from time to time. Spell check can help with that and relieve the fever a couple of members seem to have run up.
 

irfner

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OmSigDAVID wrote:
U can refer to the plaintive and futile appeals for help from Kitty Genovese as she was being stabbed to death for about an hour, in NYC, when noone even called police. U can refer to Reginald Denny being stomped in the streets of California on national TV for maybe 45 minutes (??) with no help from police who fled the scene.

These are some of the possibilties.

Use them in good health and in freedom

David
You can also refer to Kris Kime who was murdered in Seattle's Pioneer Square during a Mardis Gras celebration as police looked on. As I recall it Kris was heroically trying to help a lady who was being beaten. The attackers turned on him and beat him to death as a paralyzed crowd looked on. Seattle police who watched from a distance felt it was to dangerous to intervene and waited for back up. So why would anyone want to carry a gun in Seattle? His family donated his organs to save others.
 

OmSigDAVID

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irfner wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
U can refer to the plaintive and futile appeals for help from Kitty Genovese as she was being stabbed to death for about an hour, in NYC, when noone even called police. U can refer to Reginald Denny being stomped in the streets of California on national TV for maybe 45 minutes (??) with no help from police who fled the scene.

These are some of the possibilties.

Use them in good health and in freedom

David
You can also refer to Kris Kime who was murdered in Seattle's Pioneer Square during a Mardis Gras celebration as police looked on. As I recall it Kris was heroically trying to help a lady who was being beaten. The attackers turned on him and beat him to death as a paralyzed crowd looked on. Seattle police who watched from a distance felt it was to dangerous to intervene and waited for back up. So why would anyone want to carry a gun in Seattle? His family donated his organs to save others.
Thank u.

I was not aware of that.

It proves the myth of being safe in a crowd of citizens.

U need to be able to defend yourself; your life depends on it.





David
 

BobCav

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OmSigDAVID wrote:
irfner wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
U can refer to the plaintive and futile appeals for help from Kitty Genovese as she was being stabbed to death for about an hour, in NYC, when noone even called police. U can refer to Reginald Denny being stomped in the streets of California on national TV for maybe 45 minutes (??) with no help from police who fled the scene.

These are some of the possibilties.

Use them in good health and in freedom

David
You can also refer to Kris Kime who was murdered in Seattle's Pioneer Square during a Mardis Gras celebration as police looked on. As I recall it Kris was heroically trying to help a lady who was being beaten. The attackers turned on him and beat him to death as a paralyzed crowd looked on. Seattle police who watched from a distance felt it was to dangerous to intervene and waited for back up. So why would anyone want to carry a gun in Seattle? His family donated his organs to save others.
Thank u.

I was not aware of that.

It proves the myth of being safe in a crowd of citizens.

U need to be able to defend yourself; your life depends on it.





David

I would go one further and state that it was a crowd of people, residents and onlookers who through their indifference have disenfranchised themselves from our society, but certainly not worthy of the title of "citizen".CITIZENS would have done something.
 

skidmark

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BobCav wrote:
I would go one further and state that it was a crowd of people, residents and onlookers who through their indifference have disenfranchised themselves from our society, but certainly not worthy of the title of "citizen".CITIZENS would have done something.
I suggest that it is merely a part of the herd mentality that seems to define much of modern urban living. Once the predator has isolated the victum de jur the rest of the herd understands that they are once again safe. Occasionally one of the herd, such as the mother of a calf, may come out and try to protect the victim. But even that maternal instinct is not often very strong, and often seems to depend on the victim quickly returning to the center of the herd. If it remains outside, it usually ends up as dinner.

Modern "society" has been conditioned to think that they will be protected by the police, and that they will be sued into poverty if they try to defend someone they are not closely related to. The few who do not hold those thoughts are, of course, looked at by the rest of the herd as being even more dangerous than the prey animals.

We few, we merry band of brothers, do not care what the herd thinks.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
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