First OC experience in Des Moines/ Seatac

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With my first day off from work I decided today would be the day. I was a little concerned about what situation I might get into while OC but said what the hell. First stop was the post office in Des Moines. There were a few people there but no comments or even a second glance. Next stop was subway ( Love my spicy italian ). It was packed in there and I waited in line for about 20 minutes because the lady in front of me ordered about eight sandwiches. With a familybehind me with a could kids I just knew I was going to hear something. Not a word and I was in there for about 30 minutes. Next stop was the 7-11 in seatac but by now I had no worries and became one with my Taurus. After a few more stops to safeway and the cleaners and looking at some apartments today was a great first day, no second looks and I don't think anyone really paid attention to me. Maybe my looks are fading!? Naw, thats not it, it must be my confident presence:lol:

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DO NOT OC IN THE POST OFFICE!!!... It may be illegal!

Check out this old thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/7562.html

It says you can't carry openly or concealed unless for "official business", but that's never defined. Don't risk it! It's not worth losing your gun rights.

Other than that... glad to hear you had a good OC day.

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just_a_car wrote:

It says you can't carry openly or concealed unless for "official business", but that's never defined. Don't risk it! It's not worth losing your gun rights.

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Why would you lose your gun rights? Its a $50 and/or 30 days offense. That sounds like a misdemeanor and I was under the impression that you don't lose gun rights for misdemeanors, only felonies.

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So domestic violence is a misdemeanor and you lose your gun rights for that. It's just not worth the trouble. We are talkin' the feds here and they are not known for playing fair. LEAVE YOUR GUN IN THE CAR WHEN GOING TO THE POST OFFICE.

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Well done enlightened, and welcome aboard.

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I try to stay away from the Post Office ----Period. If I need to send anything I use one of the Mail Box Services. Post Office just causes my blood pressure to rise.

Chances are the clerk was so dumb he/she thoughtenlightened was a LEO.

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Welcome Enlightened! And like everyone else says, stay out of the blasted PO!

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Enlightened,

Welcome to the forums! Lots of good stuff in here... good people too!

With regards to carrying into a post office, I would say that you would be completly legal... Here is what Doug Huffman posted in the linked thread

USC Title 18

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous
weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or
both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or
other dangerous weapon be used in the commission
of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon
in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course
of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the
course of an attack on a Federal facility involving
the use of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an
act, shall be punished as provided in sections
1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties
by an officer, agent, or employee of the United
States, a State, or a political subdivision
thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in
or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation,
or prosecution of any violation of
law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon by a Federal official or a member
of the Armed Forces if such possession is
authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other
dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident
to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts
to do so, shall be fined under this title,
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct
which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection
(d).

Paragraph 930-(d)-(3) Spicifically states that it does not apply to those carrying for any lawful purpose other than hunting. I believe that the US Code and the Constitution would be able to back you up. But then again, I could be completly wrong... Just my $.02

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Thank you everyone, I will just keep it in the car in the future. Wouldn't want to get it taken away and get in trouble.

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ATCer:

There's some question about that. I thought the same way you do, but someone pointed out to me that post offices have their own special segment of USC that does prohibit firearms more tightly than 18USC.

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The postal code prohibiting firearms is in the CFR's section 232.

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Hmm... good to know. Thanks for the heads up!

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joeroket wrote:

The postal code prohibiting firearms is in the CFR's section 232.

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To narrow that search down, Title 39, Part 232. Section l (lower L) is on page 43 (or page 3 of the PDF) covering this topic.
[sup] [/sup]

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I was not referring to the CFR - Federal Regulations cannot nullify Federal Law. A different section of USC (United States Code, Federal Law) specifically relevant to post offices was brought to my attention when we were discussing this subject earlier over on NWCDL (if I recall correctly).

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John Hardin wrote:

I was not referring to the CFR - Federal Regulations cannot nullify Federal Law. A different section of USC (United States Code, Federal Law) specifically relevant to post offices was brought to my attention when we were discussing this subject earlier over on NWCDL (if I recall correctly).

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Couldn't find it over there but I recall a discusiion about this and I think I remember the USC stating federal property. The CFR specifically states Postal Property.

I could be wrong on this though.

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(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwith-
standing the provisions of any other
law, rule or regulation, no person while
on postal property may carry firearms,
other dangerous or deadly weapons, or
explosives, either openly or concealed,
or store the same on postal property,
except for official purposes.



Seems to me that the other reg would supercede this...being that it says 'Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation', if another rule/law permits it, than it's legit.

Standard IANAL disclaimer.

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwith-
standing the provisions of any other
law, rule or regulation, no person while
on postal property may carry firearms,
other dangerous or deadly weapons, or
explosives, either openly or concealed,
or store the same on postal property,
except for official purposes.



Seems to me that the other reg would supercede this...being that it says 'Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation', if another rule/law permits it, than it's legit.

Standard IANAL disclaimer.

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Quite the opposite. "Notwithstanding" means "in spite of" in this case... e.g., even if other laws, rules or regulations permit it, it is not permitted.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/notwithstanding

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just_a_car wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwith-
standing the provisions of any other
law, rule or regulation, no person while
on postal property may carry firearms,
other dangerous or deadly weapons, or
explosives, either openly or concealed,
or store the same on postal property,
except for official purposes.



Seems to me that the other reg would supercede this...being that it says 'Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation', if another rule/law permits it, than it's legit.

Standard IANAL disclaimer.

Click to expand...

Quite the opposite. "Notwithstanding" means "in spite of" in this case... e.g., even if other laws, rules or regulations permit it, it is not permitted.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/notwithstanding

Click to expand...

oh monkey balls....

So define 'official purposes' ? Is a business transaction an 'official purpose' ? :banghead:

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

oh monkey balls....

So define 'official purposes' ? Is a business transaction an 'official purpose' ? :banghead:

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...and therein lies our predicament and why we've discussed it to death. There is no official definition given for "official purpose".

That would actually be worth an email to the USPS to get it defined or even to the US AG office. If they define is as "you must be a federal official", then we're hosed... but if it's "utilizing the USPS services in any form", we'll have a document that states we can OPEN CARRY at the USPS. I would love to have something like that.

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Heresolong, I'm not sure where you're getting the "$50 fine and 30-day suspension" but 930(d)(3) calls for a fine and imprisonment for up to 2 years. That's a felony.

To my knowledge, there is nocourt precedent defining "other lawful purposes."



It is always best to not be a test case.