Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Kansas Gun Confiscations

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eagle, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    282

    Post imported post

    http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47874

    NOLA Revisited....

    ================================================== ==

    The following is my report on what happened in Greensburg, KS. This report will be published in the KSRA and Tri-County Newsletters and all documentation and contact info is being sent to the NRA and several Kansas House and Senate Legislators.

    GREENSBURG GUN CONFISCATIONS

    By Patricia A. Stoneking



    I would like to start this report by noting that I have personally spoke with several sources who were directly involved in the incidents that I am about to report that took place in Greensburg, KS in the aftermath of the horrible CAT 5 tornado that ravaged and destroyed that town. I will not be divulging their names in this article as they have requested I not do so.



    The first thing I would like for everyone to acknowledge is that the residents of Greensburg were forced to evacuate and that, in and of itself, was an illegal action as martial law had not been declared. There were many people who wanted to stay and they were threatened with arrest and forcible removal if they did not leave as ordered. The tornado happened at 9:46pm on Friday evening, May 4, 2007 and they were forced to leave within a couple hours of it, being given no time to collect themselves or assess the damages or even try to pick up anything such as guns and valuables. Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified at the House committee hearing with a position opposing The Emergency Powers Act and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and shut off gas and power and that the evacuation was for the safety of the residents. I have been told by a reliable source that the electricity was shut off prior to the tornado striking and the gas was shut off within a few hours after. It would seem that the evacuation was not necessary in light of that information. Perhaps the position should have been that those who want to leave be provided a way to do so and those who wish to stay be allowed to stay.



    This town was locked down tight for several days and no one was allowed in or out. The only people in that town during this time were Sheriffs Officers, Kansas Highway Patrol Officers, ATF, FEMA, National Guard, Police Officers from surrounding areas and some volunteers from Ft. Riley, generally speaking, government officials. Authorities claim no one else was there or could have gotten in or out. Interestingly enough, I have been told repeatedly by all sources that the media was allowed to roam freely without escorts through Greensburg. Shall we ask why residents were not allowed to stay on their own property but media was allowed unfettered access?



    Many guns and other valuables such as jewelry have gone permanently missing and have never been recovered. There were some houses that were not destroyed and were in tact and habitable. Those folks did not want to leave but were forced to do so. When they returned they found their houses had been broken in to and all of their guns missing. One gentleman reports that when he went to claim his guns, taken from his secure home, they were returned to him in damaged condition. They were not damaged by the tornado. They were locked up in his home and illegally confiscated. So how do we suppose that damage occurred?



    Guns and ammunition that were collected were taken to a trailer and an ATF agent manned the trailer. When people first came to collect their guns they were asked for proof of ownership such as receipts and serial number lists and they had to fill out a 4473 and get a NICS approval before they could claim their guns. No one had paperwork, receipts, or lists of serial numbers because it had all blown away. Later into the process they quit demanding these items and asked only for a list with make, model and description of the firearm. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun case was claimed by one man who had a very nice trap shotgun in it and when he opened the undamaged and closed case, he found not his nice BT99 but another damaged gun that did not belong to him. That $1500.00 BT99 has never turned up. One comment made by all sources is that many “nice” guns were never recovered. Every source has reported that little to no care was taken with any of the firearms retrieved and taken into protective custody and they were not catalogued in any fashion. One resident said “they were just thrown in there in piles”.



    One family, whose house was not damaged, reported that officers were going to remove them at gun point when they refused to leave their property and a gun fight was only averted when a KBI agent stepped in front of the other officers and pleaded with them to consider what they were doing. Those residents had taken up their shotguns and were not going to leave. We can only say thank heavens for that KBI officer who had the sense to realize what pressing these people at gun point would mean.



    As I talked to these residents of Greensburg the accounts of their personal experiences kept flowing and they all had certain things in common. Their rights were violated, guns were confiscated illegally and they were forced to leave their homes illegally. When government agents came to their property they did not ask them if they were okay or needed help. They were there to forcibly remove them and confiscate their property. Many of them expressed fear of reprisal should they go public. Do they have the names of the officials who they believe acted illegally and inappropriately? In many cases, the answer is yes. Did all officials act illegally and inappropriately? NO. Many were very helpful and had great concern for the well being of the residents and were there to assist them with the best of intentions.



    The people in Greensburg are a close, tight knit community, everyone knows everyone kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their property. Several residents have reported that FEMA did more harm than good and would not even cooperate with local law enforcement. Residents of the town who were firefighters and trained in rescue operations wanted to stay and help their neighbors and friends and were told they could not.



    The many stories that have been shared with me are too lengthy to include in this report. I just pose these questions. If there was even one act of misconduct or illegal activity by any governmental official are we to stand by idly and allow it without complaint? Should those who broke the law be allowed to continue to “serve” as law enforcement officials without question? Should the residents of Greensburg have to fear reprisal if they report and file complaints about what happened to them? Should Kansas and its legislative body do nothing to see to it that this never happens again?



    I am turning over all of the information I have obtained to the NRA complete with names and numbers of those residents which I have spoke with. I am also going to turn the information over to some members of the Kansas House and Senate. I would urge everyone to contact their legislators and demand that a full investigation be conducted in to the events that took place in Greensburg. HB 2811, The Emergency Powers Act is a bill designed to prevent this exact kind of thing from happening and provide a remedy if it does (see that article). At the time of this publication that bill is in the Senate Federal and State Affairs Committee. Rise up Kansas! Let your voice be heard! Don’t let your town be next!!


    Patricia A. Stoneking
    Target Master Shooting Academy, LLC
    NRA Certified Training Counselor
    Law Enforcement Certified Tactical Firearms Instructor
    Northeast Quadrant Director, Board of Directors, Kansas State Rifle Association
    Legislative Liaison, Board of Directors, Tri-County Rod and Gun Club
    Vice President, Board of Directors, Kansas Second Amendment Society
    P. O. Box 117
    Bonner Springs, KS 66012
    (913) 667-3044
    PAStoneking@kc.rr.com
    http://www.targetmasteracademy.com

    ================================================== ====

    many quetionable ponts I've added empasis to.

    FYI: No, this is not an April Fools Joke.

  2. #2
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598

    Post imported post

    Shameful!
    Bitka Sve Reava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bedford, Texas, USA
    Posts
    834

    Post imported post

    One family, whose house was not damaged, reported that officers were going to remove them at gun point when they refused to leave their property and a gun fight was only averted when a KBI agent stepped in front of the other officers and pleaded with them to consider what they were doing. Those residents had taken up their shotguns and were not going to leave. We can only say thank heavens for that KBI officer who had the sense to realize what pressing these people at gun point would mean.
    I would love to know what happened to this family afterwards.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,422

    Post imported post

    Excellent. Thank you!

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    Eagleeye wrote:
    NOLA Revisited....


    Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified at the House committee hearing with a position opposing The Emergency Powers Act and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and shut off gas and power and that the evacuation was for the safety of the residents.


    The people in Greensburg are a close, tight knit community, everyone knows everyone kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their property. Several residents have reported that FEMA did more harm than good and would not even cooperate with local law enforcement. Residents of the town who were firefighters and trained in rescue operations wanted to stay and help their neighbors and friends and were told they could not.
    I don't think NOLA revisited. In NOLA, the citizens were at least as much, if not more, of the problem as gov't. In this case, it sounds like the citizens could have had most of the problems solved in short order with just a little bit of outside assistance. They were ready and willing to take care of the themselves when the Nanny Gestapo marched in to "fix it".

    That being said, I would bet that the heavy handed forced evacuations were a direct reaction to NOLA and the criticism received. The looting of citizens belongings were just bonus. Remember, in the socialist/progressive world view, everything, including you and your labor, belong to the government and gov't just allows you to possess certain things at it's pleasure.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    52

    Post imported post

    With this and what happened after Katrina, I know exactly where I'm going if a disaster occurs where ever I live.
    I'll be high-tailing it into the woods with my guns and provisions.

    Are people suing? This is blatant theft and damage of property!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,487

    Post imported post

    DKSuddeth wrote:
    One family, whose house was not damaged, reported that officers were going to remove them at gun point when they refused to leave their property and a gun fight was only averted when a KBI agent stepped in front of the other officers and pleaded with them to consider what they were doing. Those residents had taken up their shotguns and were not going to leave. We can only say thank heavens for that KBI officer who had the sense to realize what pressing these people at gun point would mean.
    I would love to know what happened to this family afterwards.
    Yeah, me too. Especially since I may someday be re-enacting it. I'm a free American and that means something. It means that you can't force me to leave my home, it means that you can't point guns at me, and it means that I have the ability and the will to stop you from doing so. There's a reason this country is free and it's not a piece of paper in DC. It's the American people that aren't willing to be pushed around by JBTs!

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795

    Post imported post

    I am so glad to see that we were able to pass a law prohibiting this kind of thing that provides for civil cause of action if it does happen. A little financial liability tends to keep government agents in line.

    See http://le.utah.gov/~2008/bills/sbillenr/sb0157.htm for language.

    This has been signed by the governor and will become official law in Utah in just a few weeks.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    "One gentleman reports that when he went to claim his guns, taken from his secure home, they were returned to him in damaged condition. They were not damaged by the tornado. They were locked up in his home and illegally confiscated. So how do we suppose that damage occurred?"

    I did not see the damage actually described but will assume at the least there would be scratches, dings, and dents. Those collecting are not going to handle them as gently as the owner.

    Being forced to leave after the fact if kinda dumb. Chances are good your home will be looted by bad guys who stay behind.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    Post imported post

    Which is worse a devastating tornado or the "helping hand" of FEMAand BATFE?


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Thundar wrote:
    Which is worse a devastating tornado or the "helping hand" of FEMAand BATFE?

    OK... one comes and goes in a few seconds... the other stays in the area for weeks...

    Do not make me explain it any further.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Evanston, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    647

    Post imported post

    Was'nt there a act passed in Congress, post Katrina,to prevent this crap from happening again?

    I'd like to knowwhy BATF was there, they're anything but a emergency services organization. All those thugsdo is violate people's rights and try to make honest citizens into criminals.



    Which is worse a devastating tornado or the "helping hand" of FEMAand BATFE?

    OK... one comes and goes in a few seconds... the other stays in the area for weeks...

    And the"helping hand"is more destructive.

    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    Huck wrote:
    Was'nt there a act passed in Congress, post Katrina,to prevent this crap from happening again?
    I'm under the impression that those laws regard to gun confiscation, not forced evacuations... but I could be wrong.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eagle, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    282

    Post imported post

    Huck wrote:
    I'd like to knowwhy BATF was there.
    Same here, but I can only Hypothesize that they may have been "testing the water" as it were.

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Huck wrote:
    Was'nt there a act passed in Congress, post Katrina,to prevent this crap from happening again?

    I'd like to knowwhy BATF was there, they're anything but a emergency services organization. All those thugsdo is violate people's rights and try to make honest citizens into criminals.



    Which is worse a devastating tornado or the "helping hand" of FEMAand BATFE?

    OK... one comes and goes in a few seconds... the other stays in the area for weeks...

    And the"helping hand"is more destructive.

    This law only deals with federal enforcement during an emergency. State and local police are not mentioned in this law unless they are working undera federal agency and taking orders from same. See below. It's a start though.


    H.R. 5441 [109th]: Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act, 2007

    Section 557 -

    Amends the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (Stafford Act) to prohibit any U.S. officer or employee, or person operating under color of federal law, under control of a federal official, or providing services to such person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, from: (1) seizing any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under federal or state law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation; (2) requiring registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by federal or state law; (3) prohibiting possession of any firearm where such possession is not otherwise prohibited; or (4) prohibiting the carrying of a firearm by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms, solely because such person is operating under the control of a federal agency in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency. Authorizes any individual aggrieved by a violation of this Act to seek relief by bringing an action for redress and by bringing a civil action in U.S. district court for return of a confiscated firearm.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •