Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Inside Waist open carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    Is inside the waist holster legal for open carry in VA?

  2. #2
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598

    Post imported post

    Yes it isbut I would avoid that if at all possible because itcould open you up to a possible concealed weapons charge (if you don't have a CHP) because it could be construed that you are attempting to hide the weapon from common observation. (For example: if your shirt becomes a little "untucked" and part of it falls over the butt of the weapon.)

    Most BGs don't use a holster (IWB or otherwise) and therefore it could bring you more (negative) attention from LE and the general public. I wouldn't even consider it, but then again IANAL!


    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    But if I normally carry concealed then go to lunch where alchol may be available to the public, what does one do?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    It is really going to depend on the gun and holster.

    My wife has one that would basically be covered completely and you would hardly know what it was.

    Then you have the other kinds where you can clearly see the grip and hammer and can tell it is a gun.

    Inside the waist holsters are not reallyfor OC.... They are not that comfortable and only done to keep them hidden as much as possible.

    And unless you are going to tuck that shirt in real tight or go shirtless..... If your shirt bunches up enough to cover the grip.... you are in trouble!! This is what will happen when the gun is pressed up against your body so close.

    Whereas the other holsters make it OBVIOUS you have a gun even if the handle gets covered a little. You can still see the holster.


  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    esmart wrote:
    But if I normally carry concealed then go to lunch where alchol may be available to the public, what does one do?
    Good question... Avoid the location? :P

    Order elsewhere or have your friend order and you eat outside the boundary of the establishment?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    236

    Post imported post

    My personal thought is it depends on the holster/gun/body combination. I carry a full size and it is obvious what it is with only the back end displayed. I tend to OC IWB when dropping in for dinner when I have been CCing for most of the day. If I plan on going out to dinner, I usually throw on a owb to avoid hassles.

    I have not had any issues from anyone for carrying IWB.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765

    Post imported post

    esmart wrote:
    Is inside the waist holster legal for open carry in VA?
    Short answer -- yes, but....

    The criterion is whether it can be reasonably seen for what it is.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308 Paragraph A states, in part: "If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed..." and " For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."

    That latter statement has been interpreted to include buckles, such as the North American Arms buckle, that might hide the "true nature" of the pistol.

    An IWB holster, if the weapon can be seen to be a firearm, is legal for OC.

    You've been given some good "what if" consideration. IWB could easily be construed to be concealed based on the fold of your clothes, the carry of a jacket, and other circumstances.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    this is morphing, but maybe the ultimate question is how many holster I need to have, and I'm not disparaging any views given thus far. Since my life is fairly simple, let me throw a daily.

    I get up, yada yada, walk out the door C&C, 3 mi. drive to office.

    1. while in the car should I have a separate car holster? on the console or something?

    while at office C&C ok, boss carries already. Go to lunch.

    Small bistro we visit decides to serve beer, and ALL the State Troopers like the place too. (it is a great place) so do I switch holsters, handle firearm out of car holster, this gets complicated.

    I know the law is goofy on the restaurant thing but, for now I want to comply.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    Thanks so much for the code qoute, I often have to deal in my own profession with VA law cites. And I must say many are just as precise and vague at the same time. Again thanks. I'm looking at a Ruger SP101 3"+, .357, forward cant strong side, so it SHOULD be observable.

    Just so all know, I have yet to purchase my first handgun. I take very seriously the laws that we have, the rights that we enjoy, and the reponsibilities that they endow us. I have children, and some of them are not entirely responsible. ( a gun safe thread is inevitable). The point being, I anlayze, I adapt, I evalutae, then I act. I still have many questions, you will likely hear them.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    YOU WILL FIND THAT WHEN YOU CARRY A PISTOL OR REVOLVER USING AN INSIDE THE PANTS HOLSTER THAT IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE CONSIDER OPEN CARRY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WILL BE USING HIS "OPINION" AS TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT YOU HAVE A HANDGUN IN VISUAL SIGHT. WITHIN THE REALMS OF MULTI-DEPARTMENT
    GROUPS YOU HOPE THAT HAVE 20/20 VISION IS A KEY FACTOR IF YOU EVER PUT IN THIS POSITION ,AS I HAVE SEEN IN THE COURT ROOM . THE LEADING FACTOR LIES ON HIS STATEMENT. FINAL NOTE ON MY PART .....IS AS SCHULTZ WOULD SAY "I KNOW NUTHING"


  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    201

    Post imported post

    I've found that the biggest problem with IWB holsters is that THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!
    the exception is my makarov tucked in the small of my back if i'm CCing and wearing a jacket.

    Friends don't let friends use IWB holsters...

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    236

    Post imported post

    the trick to IWB carry is to get a good holster and figure out where you should carry. I found that going to a gun show and trying out several holsters and moving around with them will really tell you how they will feel in the long run. Some of them really distribute the weight well and are quite easy to get used to. After a week or so, you really don't know it's there.

    When carrying OWB I have to be more careful about smacking the firearm as I am not a small guy. One of the biggest challenges personally with OWB is when going to a place that has smaller seats with arms (movie theatre, town hall, etc). The arms on the seats tend to grab everything that is hanging off the belt.

    There are advantages to both IWB and OWB and even shoulder. You should try out several different types and see what works with you and your lifestyle. Remember comfortable may only be an inch away... don't be afraid of trying different positions with the holster 3:30-4:00 instead of 3:00, etc.

    Carry safely...

  13. #13
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598

    Post imported post

    savery wrote:
    I've found that the biggest problem with IWB holsters is that THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!

    Friends don't let friends use IWB holsters...
    Amen to that brother! The last time I wore my .45 ACP IWB for the day, I brusied both my side and ribs and I'm talking BLACK AND BLUE!

    Your last sentence would be a great bumper-sticker!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    324

    Post imported post

    savery wrote:
    I've found that the biggest problem with IWB holsters is that THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!
    the exception is my makarov tucked in the small of my back if i'm CCing and wearing a jacket.

    Friends don't let friends use IWB holsters...
    I find mine to be very comfortable. I carry a SW1911A1PD every day in itbut every once in a while I'll switch to a yaqui.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, ,
    Posts
    204

    Post imported post

    I agree. The soft, floppy IWB rigs don't work well. I have a Milt Sparks Versa Max II that carries a Browning HP comfortably all day long. The other factor is having the right sized pants if you are going to carry IWB.



    DocV

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    15

    Post imported post

    I always use my IWB when carrying (SIG 1911 Revolution C3 or Kimber Compact Stainless), OC and CC. I guess having my CHP helps me with the shirt covering the gun but I just find that my IWB is pretty comfy for me.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Here are two people in a VA ABC establishment carryng with IWB's, notice their shirts are securely tucked in.



    Just be sure the gun is identifiable as a gun.
    Your CHP won't do you any good in a ABC establishment, OC is your only option unless you leave the gun behind (in the car or at home).
    I OC with a IWB almost daily with no issues.
    A good IWB can be comfortable but will never be as comfortable as a belt (OWB) holster.

    Happy carrying.

    Edit:
    IWB's that I have used and liked, Milt Sparks Versa Max II, Ky-Tac's Braveheart, G-Code w/IWB attachment, Galco Royal Guard, Summer Special, BladeTech's UCH and an Alessi Holster universal holster(name worn off) that is basically a gun bucket, it works great.

    I still have all these holster and use them with different guns depending on my needs.

    In the pic I'm using the G-Code to carry my Glock 20 w/5.5"bbl.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    I always wear a IWB and tuck behind the firearm whenever I OC. I typically CC, thus why I sport the IWB

    Just find one that is comfortable. Mine is alright, I might try to get a nicer leather one instead of Klydex

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NOVA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    732

    Post imported post

    Agent19, would you mind commenting on the Galco Royal Guard? I've been thinking of picking one up. I'd rather have a MS Versa Max, but I'd rather not wait 6 months for one. How would you compare the two, I'm sure it's apples and oranges but would the Royal Guard be a good, cheaper alternative to the MS unit? My buddy has a MS unit for his CZ and it's really nice, versus I've never seen the Royal Guard locally so I'd have to buy sight unseen.

    Also I've never had issues OC with my IWB at restaurants that server alcohol. I normally wear untucked shirts and when entering such establishments, I'll tuck my shirt in around the IWB holster and it doesn't cover up at all.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    It depends an the gun you're carrying.







    I use it when I carry a short grip1911, Colt CCO (Officers grip with a Commanders length slide) and find it extremely comfortable and secure.
    IMHO the short barrel (under 3")guns with this holster create a wedge feeling, it also works great with a fullsized 1911.
    A friend uses it for his G23 and loves it.


    My only complaint was the holster absorbing sweat.
    (when holster was against skin, no tucked in shirt and the NV heat)

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  21. #21
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    on the move
    Posts
    558

    Post imported post

    I normally carry concealed in an IWB holster. When switching to OC, I just tuck in my shirt. (morphing)

    IWBs with a leather backing (like mine, the Crossbreed Supertuck, http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/beltslide.html) are much more comfortable, and also IMHO help the weapon to "stand out" visually by providing a light-colored leatherbackground when OCing. Still, many people don't even notice I'm wearing it, since I wear the holster at 4 o'clock, but it is completely visible and distinguishable. I have never had any problems (legal or functional) operating this way. On the other hand, wearing a black shirt while carrying a black weapon in a black nylon El Cheapo IWB that allows the weapon to ride low enough that you can't see much of the butt could arguably be concealing. Of course, a holster riding that low would be almost impossible to draw from, but you get the point.

    Thedownside to IWBs, as I see it,is that CCW holsters like mine don't have any retention feature (like SERPA) to prevent somebody from grabbing the weapon. Therefore, I must maintain heightened awareness of people's proximity to my 4 o'clock anytime I'm OCing.

    There isn't any one holster that works for everybody in every situation. So, how many holsters do you need, and which kind(s)? Depends on you (your carry habits/intentions, your body shape), what kind of clothing you typically wear,and the size of your weapon. A full-size 1911 wouldn't be easy for a skinny guy like me to conceal, no matter what holster I used. Conversely, there aren't a lot of [decent] retention holsters designed for open, outside-the-belt carry made for subcompact autos.

    Bottom line, my IWBis all I need for the wayI carry. If I wanted to do more OC activism and carry more obtrusively, I would have to buy (1) another pistol and (2) a belt holster better-suited to OC.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    236

    Post imported post

    As has been stated, get a quality holster if you plan on IWB. I carry a 1911Gov without a problem. When I first looked into IWB, I picked up a cheap holster to see how it would feel and almost gave up. The design left a bruised line down my hip from the stabilizer that aids in reholstering... Ask around, someone may have an older IWB you could borrow for a little while to form your own opinion.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Va, ,
    Posts
    623

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    It depends an the gun you're carrying.







    I use it when I carry a short grip1911, Colt CCO (Officers grip with a Commanders length slide) and find it extremely comfortable and secure.
    IMHO the short barrel (under 3")guns with this holster create a wedge feeling, it also works great with a fullsized 1911.
    A friend uses it for his G23 and loves it.


    My only complaint was the holster absorbing sweat.
    (when holster was against skin, no tucked in shirt and the NV heat)
    I have 2 royal guard holsters. One for a 5 inch 1911 Colt Govt model I used to carry and still have. The other is for a colt officers I bought to use to carry a compact STI a friend built which is similar to their STI 3.9 VIP. It is about 1/4 inch longer than a Colt Officers model and holds 10 to 12 rounds of .45 depending on the magizine I carry. Mine has the short STI grip that makes it the same height as the grip on the 5 inch. Since the STI has a square trigger guard I had to cut the stitching on the holster where the trigger guard is located and I have not gotten it restitched square yet. I found another holster at one of the Hampton Gun shows that was made for a square trigger guard and the gun fits in it well. I bought it from Backwoods Leather. I don't remember his name but the guy is located in Portsmouth and makes custom leather holsters and magazine holders and is always at the gun shows in Hampton and the Showplace in Richmond. The holster I bought is his model number DBLEC, which I believe stands for Colt Double Eagle Commander length. It is for IWB and has a metal spring steel belt clip sewn into it. The holster is designed to make the gun set straighter than the Royal Guard, but is still tipped forward a little. When I put the holster on I can tip the gun forward more so it sits like the Royal Guard an it stays there all day. The only problem I have with any of the holsters is when it is hot and I sweat I start to itch after about 3 hours, but in the winter when cool it is fine for several hours. The main reason for going with these holsters is I wanted IWB and I am a big guy and the wide beaver tail grip safety would dig into my love handle with other IWB holsters that made the guns sit straighter. With these holsters it doesn't dig in. All 3 holsters as shown in Agent 19's picture have plenty of the gun above the belt line to identify it as a gun. When my freind finishes the STI Commander he is building for me it will fit the Backwoods holster I use. I may still get a Royal Guard in Commander length for it and cut and resew the trigger guard stitching or get Backwoods Leather to make another holster with more forward tilt. Either one works for me.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

  24. #24
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    savery wrote:
    I've found that the biggest problem with IWB holsters is that THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!
    the exception is my makarov tucked in the small of my back if i'm CCing and wearing a jacket.

    Friends don't let friends use IWB holsters...
    I carry IWB every day in a custom kydex holster made by RM Holsterworks. Its called the low rider IWB ($50) and I sometimes forget that I'm carrying its so comfortable.

    http://www.rmholsters.com/



    Jim


    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    15

    Post imported post

    mobeewan wrote:
    I have 2 royal guard holsters. One for a 5 inch 1911 Colt Govt model I used to carry and still have. The other is for a colt officers I bought to use to carry a compact STI a friend built which is similar to their STI 3.9 VIP. It is about 1/4 inch longer than a Colt Officers model and holds 10 to 12 rounds of .45 depending on the magizine I carry. Mine has the short STI grip that makes it the same height as the grip on the 5 inch. Since the STI has a square trigger guard I had to cut the stitching on the holster where the trigger guard is located and I have not gotten it restitched square yet. I found another holster at one of the Hampton Gun shows that was made for a square trigger guard and the gun fits in it well. I bought it from Backwoods Leather. I don't remember his name but the guy is located in Portsmouth and makes custom leather holsters and magazine holders and is always at the gun shows in Hampton and the Showplace in Richmond. The holster I bought is his model number DBLEC, which I believe stands for Colt Double Eagle Commander length. It is for IWB and has a metal spring steel belt clip sewn into it. The holster is designed to make the gun set straighter than the Royal Guard, but is still tipped forward a little. When I put the holster on I can tip the gun forward more so it sits like the Royal Guard an it stays there all day. The only problem I have with any of the holsters is when it is hot and I sweat I start to itch after about 3 hours, but in the winter when cool it is fine for several hours. The main reason for going with these holsters is I wanted IWB and I am a big guy and the wide beaver tail grip safety would dig into my love handle with other IWB holsters that made the guns sit straighter. With these holsters it doesn't dig in. All 3 holsters as shown in Agent 19's picture have plenty of the gun above the belt line to identify it as a gun. When my freind finishes the STI Commander he is building for me it will fit the Backwoods holster I use. I may still get a Royal Guard in Commander length for it and cut and resew the trigger guard stitching or get Backwoods Leather to make another holster with more forward tilt. Either one works for me.

    I have to agree with you on the Backwoods Leather holsters. I had 2 Royal Guard holsters,one for the 5" 1911 and the other for the 4" SA XD .45, I was not happy with the comfort of either one.

    I talked to Jim Kirk of Backwoods Leather and he invited me to try one of his holsters and I have been hooked ever since. I have since then given away both Galco holsters and use only the Backwoods LeatherIWB holsters with the metal clip. Ialso purchased a pocket holster for my J frame S&W from Jim and could not be happier with any of them.


    Edited to add : Jim is usually at the Chantilly Gun Show as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •