esmart
Regular Member
imported post
Is inside the waist holster legal for open carry in VA?
Is inside the waist holster legal for open carry in VA?
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Inside Waist open carry
- Thread starter esmart
- Start date
ODA 226
Regular Member
imported post
Yes it isbut I would avoid that if at all possible because itcould open you up to a possible concealed weapons charge (if you don't have a CHP) because it could be construed that you are attempting to hide the weapon from common observation. (For example: if your shirt becomes a little "untucked" and part of it falls over the butt of the weapon.)
Most BGs don't use a holster (IWB or otherwise) and therefore it could bring you more (negative) attention from LE and the general public. I wouldn't even consider it, but then again IANAL!
Yes it isbut I would avoid that if at all possible because itcould open you up to a possible concealed weapons charge (if you don't have a CHP) because it could be construed that you are attempting to hide the weapon from common observation. (For example: if your shirt becomes a little "untucked" and part of it falls over the butt of the weapon.)
Most BGs don't use a holster (IWB or otherwise) and therefore it could bring you more (negative) attention from LE and the general public. I wouldn't even consider it, but then again IANAL!
esmart
Regular Member
imported post
But if I normally carry concealed then go to lunch where alchol may be available to the public, what does one do?
But if I normally carry concealed then go to lunch where alchol may be available to the public, what does one do?
imported post
It is really going to depend on the gun and holster.
My wife has one that would basically be covered completely and you would hardly know what it was.
Then you have the other kinds where you can clearly see the grip and hammer and can tell it is a gun.
Inside the waist holsters are not reallyfor OC.... They are not that comfortable and only done to keep them hidden as much as possible.
And unless you are going to tuck that shirt in real tight or go shirtless..... If your shirt bunches up enough to cover the grip.... you are in trouble!! This is what will happen when the gun is pressed up against your body so close.
Whereas the other holsters make it OBVIOUS you have a gun even if the handle gets covered a little. You can still see the holster.
It is really going to depend on the gun and holster.
My wife has one that would basically be covered completely and you would hardly know what it was.
Then you have the other kinds where you can clearly see the grip and hammer and can tell it is a gun.
Inside the waist holsters are not reallyfor OC.... They are not that comfortable and only done to keep them hidden as much as possible.
And unless you are going to tuck that shirt in real tight or go shirtless..... If your shirt bunches up enough to cover the grip.... you are in trouble!! This is what will happen when the gun is pressed up against your body so close.
Whereas the other holsters make it OBVIOUS you have a gun even if the handle gets covered a little. You can still see the holster.
coltcarrier
Campaign Veteran
imported post
My personal thought is it depends on the holster/gun/body combination. I carry a full size and it is obvious what it is with only the back end displayed. I tend to OC IWB when dropping in for dinner when I have been CCing for most of the day. If I plan on going out to dinner, I usually throw on a owb to avoid hassles.
I have not had any issues from anyone for carrying IWB.
My personal thought is it depends on the holster/gun/body combination. I carry a full size and it is obvious what it is with only the back end displayed. I tend to OC IWB when dropping in for dinner when I have been CCing for most of the day. If I plan on going out to dinner, I usually throw on a owb to avoid hassles.
I have not had any issues from anyone for carrying IWB.
imported post
esmart wrote:
The criterion is whether it can be reasonably seen for what it is.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308 Paragraph A states, in part: "If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed..." and " For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."
That latter statement has been interpreted to include buckles, such as the North American Arms buckle, that might hide the "true nature" of the pistol.
An IWB holster, if the weapon can be seen to be a firearm, is legal for OC.
You've been given some good "what if" consideration. IWB could easily be construed to be concealed based on the fold of your clothes, the carry of a jacket, and other circumstances.
esmart wrote:
Short answer -- yes, but....
The criterion is whether it can be reasonably seen for what it is.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308 Paragraph A states, in part: "If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed..." and " For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."
That latter statement has been interpreted to include buckles, such as the North American Arms buckle, that might hide the "true nature" of the pistol.
An IWB holster, if the weapon can be seen to be a firearm, is legal for OC.
You've been given some good "what if" consideration. IWB could easily be construed to be concealed based on the fold of your clothes, the carry of a jacket, and other circumstances.
esmart
Regular Member
imported post
this is morphing, but maybe the ultimate question is how many holster I need to have, and I'm not disparaging any views given thus far. Since my life is fairly simple, let me throw a daily.
I get up, yada yada, walk out the door C&C, 3 mi. drive to office.
1. while in the car should I have a separate car holster? on the console or something?
while at office C&C ok, boss carries already. Go to lunch.
Small bistro we visit decides to serve beer, and ALL the State Troopers like the place too. (it is a great place) so do I switch holsters, handle firearm out of car holster, this gets complicated.
I know the law is goofy on the restaurant thing but, for now I want to comply.
this is morphing, but maybe the ultimate question is how many holster I need to have, and I'm not disparaging any views given thus far. Since my life is fairly simple, let me throw a daily.
I get up, yada yada, walk out the door C&C, 3 mi. drive to office.
1. while in the car should I have a separate car holster? on the console or something?
while at office C&C ok, boss carries already. Go to lunch.
Small bistro we visit decides to serve beer, and ALL the State Troopers like the place too. (it is a great place) so do I switch holsters, handle firearm out of car holster, this gets complicated.
I know the law is goofy on the restaurant thing but, for now I want to comply.
esmart
Regular Member
imported post
Thanks so much for the code qoute, I often have to deal in my own profession with VA law cites. And I must say many are just as precise and vague at the same time. Again thanks. I'm looking at a Ruger SP101 3"+, .357, forward cant strong side, so it SHOULD be observable.
Just so all know, I have yet to purchase my first handgun. I take very seriously the laws that we have, the rights that we enjoy, and the reponsibilities that they endow us. I have children, and some of them are not entirely responsible. ( a gun safe thread is inevitable). The point being, I anlayze, I adapt, I evalutae, then I act. I still have many questions, you will likely hear them.
Thanks so much for the code qoute, I often have to deal in my own profession with VA law cites. And I must say many are just as precise and vague at the same time. Again thanks. I'm looking at a Ruger SP101 3"+, .357, forward cant strong side, so it SHOULD be observable.
Just so all know, I have yet to purchase my first handgun. I take very seriously the laws that we have, the rights that we enjoy, and the reponsibilities that they endow us. I have children, and some of them are not entirely responsible. ( a gun safe thread is inevitable). The point being, I anlayze, I adapt, I evalutae, then I act. I still have many questions, you will likely hear them.
imported post
YOU WILL FIND THAT WHEN YOU CARRY A PISTOL OR REVOLVER USING AN INSIDE THE PANTS HOLSTER THAT IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE CONSIDER OPEN CARRY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WILL BE USING HIS "OPINION" AS TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT YOU HAVE A HANDGUN IN VISUAL SIGHT. WITHIN THE REALMS OF MULTI-DEPARTMENT
GROUPS YOU HOPE THAT HAVE 20/20 VISION IS A KEY FACTOR IF YOU EVER PUT IN THIS POSITION ,AS I HAVE SEEN IN THE COURT ROOM . THE LEADING FACTOR LIES ON HIS STATEMENT. FINAL NOTE ON MY PART .....IS AS SCHULTZ WOULD SAY "I KNOW NUTHING"
YOU WILL FIND THAT WHEN YOU CARRY A PISTOL OR REVOLVER USING AN INSIDE THE PANTS HOLSTER THAT IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE CONSIDER OPEN CARRY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WILL BE USING HIS "OPINION" AS TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT YOU HAVE A HANDGUN IN VISUAL SIGHT. WITHIN THE REALMS OF MULTI-DEPARTMENT
GROUPS YOU HOPE THAT HAVE 20/20 VISION IS A KEY FACTOR IF YOU EVER PUT IN THIS POSITION ,AS I HAVE SEEN IN THE COURT ROOM . THE LEADING FACTOR LIES ON HIS STATEMENT. FINAL NOTE ON MY PART .....IS AS SCHULTZ WOULD SAY "I KNOW NUTHING"
savery
Regular Member
imported post
I've found that the biggest problem with IWB holsters is that THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!
the exception is my makarov tucked in the small of my back if i'm CCing and wearing a jacket.
Friends don't let friends use IWB holsters...
I've found that the biggest problem with IWB holsters is that THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!
the exception is my makarov tucked in the small of my back if i'm CCing and wearing a jacket.
Friends don't let friends use IWB holsters...
coltcarrier
Campaign Veteran
imported post
the trick to IWB carry is to get a good holster and figure out where you should carry. I found that going to a gun show and trying out several holsters and moving around with them will really tell you how they will feel in the long run. Some of them really distribute the weight well and are quite easy to get used to. After a week or so, you really don't know it's there.
When carrying OWB I have to be more careful about smacking the firearm as I am not a small guy. One of the biggest challenges personally with OWB is when going to a place that has smaller seats with arms (movie theatre, town hall, etc). The arms on the seats tend to grab everything that is hanging off the belt.
There are advantages to both IWB and OWB and even shoulder. You should try out several different types and see what works with you and your lifestyle. Remember comfortable may only be an inch away... don't be afraid of trying different positions with the holster 3:30-4:00 instead of 3:00, etc.
Carry safely...
the trick to IWB carry is to get a good holster and figure out where you should carry. I found that going to a gun show and trying out several holsters and moving around with them will really tell you how they will feel in the long run. Some of them really distribute the weight well and are quite easy to get used to. After a week or so, you really don't know it's there.
When carrying OWB I have to be more careful about smacking the firearm as I am not a small guy. One of the biggest challenges personally with OWB is when going to a place that has smaller seats with arms (movie theatre, town hall, etc). The arms on the seats tend to grab everything that is hanging off the belt.
There are advantages to both IWB and OWB and even shoulder. You should try out several different types and see what works with you and your lifestyle. Remember comfortable may only be an inch away... don't be afraid of trying different positions with the holster 3:30-4:00 instead of 3:00, etc.
Carry safely...
ODA 226
Regular Member
imported post
savery wrote:
Amen to that brother! The last time I wore my .45 ACP IWB for the day, I brusied both my side and ribs and I'm talking BLACK AND BLUE!
Your last sentence would be a great bumper-sticker! :lol:
savery wrote:
Amen to that brother! The last time I wore my .45 ACP IWB for the day, I brusied both my side and ribs and I'm talking BLACK AND BLUE!
Your last sentence would be a great bumper-sticker! :lol:
Spectre
Regular Member
imported post
savery wrote:
savery wrote:
I find mine to be very comfortable. I carry a SW1911A1PD every day in itbut every once in a while I'll switch to a yaqui.
DocV
Regular Member
imported post
I agree. The soft, floppy IWB rigs don't work well. I have a Milt Sparks Versa Max II that carries a Browning HP comfortably all day long. The other factor is having the right sized pants if you are going to carry IWB.
DocV
I agree. The soft, floppy IWB rigs don't work well. I have a Milt Sparks Versa Max II that carries a Browning HP comfortably all day long. The other factor is having the right sized pants if you are going to carry IWB.
DocV
OBXFunn
Regular Member
imported post
I always use my IWB when carrying (SIG 1911 Revolution C3 or Kimber Compact Stainless), OC and CC. I guess having my CHP helps me with the shirt covering the gun but I just find that my IWB is pretty comfy for me.
I always use my IWB when carrying (SIG 1911 Revolution C3 or Kimber Compact Stainless), OC and CC. I guess having my CHP helps me with the shirt covering the gun but I just find that my IWB is pretty comfy for me.
Marco
Regular Member
imported post
Here are two people in a VA ABC establishment carryng with IWB's, notice their shirts are securely tucked in.
Just be sure the gun is identifiable as a gun.
Your CHP won't do you any good in a ABC establishment, OC is your only option unless you leave the gun behind (in the car or at home).
I OC with a IWB almost daily with no issues.
A good IWB can be comfortable but will never be as comfortable as a belt (OWB) holster.
Happy carrying.
Edit:
IWB's that I have used and liked, Milt Sparks Versa Max II, Ky-Tac's Braveheart, G-Code w/IWB attachment, Galco Royal Guard, Summer Special, BladeTech's UCH and an Alessi Holster universal holster(name worn off) that is basically a gun bucket, it works great.
I still have all these holster and use them with different guns depending on my needs.
In the pic I'm using the G-Code to carry my Glock 20 w/5.5"bbl.
Here are two people in a VA ABC establishment carryng with IWB's, notice their shirts are securely tucked in.
Just be sure the gun is identifiable as a gun.
Your CHP won't do you any good in a ABC establishment, OC is your only option unless you leave the gun behind (in the car or at home).
I OC with a IWB almost daily with no issues.
A good IWB can be comfortable but will never be as comfortable as a belt (OWB) holster.
Happy carrying.
Edit:
IWB's that I have used and liked, Milt Sparks Versa Max II, Ky-Tac's Braveheart, G-Code w/IWB attachment, Galco Royal Guard, Summer Special, BladeTech's UCH and an Alessi Holster universal holster(name worn off) that is basically a gun bucket, it works great.
I still have all these holster and use them with different guns depending on my needs.
In the pic I'm using the G-Code to carry my Glock 20 w/5.5"bbl.
hsmith
Regular Member
imported post
I always wear a IWB and tuck behind the firearm whenever I OC. I typically CC, thus why I sport the IWB
Just find one that is comfortable. Mine is alright, I might try to get a nicer leather one instead of Klydex
I always wear a IWB and tuck behind the firearm whenever I OC. I typically CC, thus why I sport the IWB
Just find one that is comfortable. Mine is alright, I might try to get a nicer leather one instead of Klydex
eyesopened
Regular Member
imported post
Agent19, would you mind commenting on the Galco Royal Guard? I've been thinking of picking one up. I'd rather have a MS Versa Max, but I'd rather not wait 6 months for one. How would you compare the two, I'm sure it's apples and oranges but would the Royal Guard be a good, cheaper alternative to the MS unit? My buddy has a MS unit for his CZ and it's really nice, versus I've never seen the Royal Guard locally so I'd have to buy sight unseen.
Also I've never had issues OC with my IWB at restaurants that server alcohol. I normally wear untucked shirts and when entering such establishments, I'll tuck my shirt in around the IWB holster and it doesn't cover up at all.
Agent19, would you mind commenting on the Galco Royal Guard? I've been thinking of picking one up. I'd rather have a MS Versa Max, but I'd rather not wait 6 months for one. How would you compare the two, I'm sure it's apples and oranges but would the Royal Guard be a good, cheaper alternative to the MS unit? My buddy has a MS unit for his CZ and it's really nice, versus I've never seen the Royal Guard locally so I'd have to buy sight unseen.
Also I've never had issues OC with my IWB at restaurants that server alcohol. I normally wear untucked shirts and when entering such establishments, I'll tuck my shirt in around the IWB holster and it doesn't cover up at all.
Marco
Regular Member
imported post
It depends an the gun you're carrying.
I use it when I carry a short grip1911, Colt CCO (Officers grip with a Commanders length slide) and find it extremely comfortable and secure.
IMHO the short barrel (under 3")guns with this holster create a wedge feeling, it also works great with a fullsized 1911.
A friend uses it for his G23 and loves it.
My only complaint was the holster absorbing sweat.
(when holster was against skin, no tucked in shirt and the NV heat)
It depends an the gun you're carrying.
I use it when I carry a short grip1911, Colt CCO (Officers grip with a Commanders length slide) and find it extremely comfortable and secure.
IMHO the short barrel (under 3")guns with this holster create a wedge feeling, it also works great with a fullsized 1911.
A friend uses it for his G23 and loves it.
My only complaint was the holster absorbing sweat.
(when holster was against skin, no tucked in shirt and the NV heat)