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Thread: Encounter with Seattle PD on 3/28/08

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    So, originally I wasn't going to post any of this due to the outcome and the fact that it occurred when I was very tired and thus, forgot to get any names of the officers and I lost my audio recorder months ago. Therefore, everything I write is from memory and will likely have some mistakes due to my memory, but the general material will be sound. It was Denny's on 4th St. in South Seattle in the SODO district, Friday at around 4am I would say... maybe 5. Our group arrived around 3 and stayed for 1-2 hours.

    The following is what I sent Lonnie in IM after he asked me to tell him about my encounter:

    ----------------------------------------
    Well, I was OC'ing from the time I got there, sat down at the end of the table at Denny's (we were seated at a bunch of tables in the middle at the 4th St Denny's in Seattle) with my strong side towards three SPD officers the whole time. My group was loud here and there and we were fairly well-behaved for a group of 13.

    Then it comes time to leave and stand, grab my coat and camera (it was someone's birthday) and hear one of the officers say "whoa!" but I ignored it and just went in line to pay my bill. Then, as I'm standing there, I feel that someone's too close behind me so I put my elbow on my pistol and one of the officers that's less than a foot from my back says "You mind covering that up, bro?"

    I said, "I'd prefer not to" and he tells me that I'm required to. I told him "no, Washington is an open carry state" and he flat out tells me it's not. I then asked to speak with his supervisor and he says "If you talk to my supervisor, you'll be arrested." So I paused for a second to collect myself and consider that I was at someone else's party... took a breath, looked him in the eye and said "I'd like to speak with your supervisor." At this point, the other two officers (one didn't talk at all) come over and the one with three chevrons on his coat says "what's the problem here?"

    I essentially go through explaining that I would prefer not to cover up. He asks if I've been carrying openly all day and I say yes. Essentially we go back and forth a bit on why I carry openly (because it's easier/more comfortable) and he asks if I have a CPL and I say yes and he asks why I don't conceal, with a confused look, and says "most people get a CPL so that they can conceal." I then explain that I got it so that "when I get into my car to go home, I'm not breaking the law, since I can't enter a vehicle with a loaded firearm without it." at which point the first guy says something to the effect of "I didn't even know that was legal [indicating OC]. We're not used to seeing that around here." and the 3 chevron guy says "well, he's got all his facts straight."

    I then showed the first guy the Kent and Everett training bulletins, which he only glanced at, if that. I also told him about OCDO and told him to check it out and told them all that there was movement of OC. The three chevron guy asked if I was part of that movement and I said "yeah, pretty much." Then all but the 3 chevron guy walk off back to their table. He told me that one of the other two had seen me and asked if they knew me; if I was 'one of them. I nodded and said, "I understand why he might ask that." I then thanked the officer, shook his hand and wished them all a safe evening.

    On the way out, a hispanic guy with two tears under each eye asked if they were giving me crap and I gave him a brief run-down of legal OC and that you didn't need a license. He said he was going to tell his sister in law who's been looking for some protection. On my way to my car, after chatting with my friends outside a bit to cool off, I noticed one of the cops had entered his vehicle and was working on the laptop. He was doing so as I got in my car and as I left, but he never followed me.
    ------------------------------------

    I honestly wish I'd had my recorder and got some names, since the first guy actually threatened me with arrest if I talked to his supervisor. I'm not sure what three chevrons means rank-wise, but I doubt he was the guy's supervisor... I could be wrong. Though, their identities might be able to be found through a FOIA request on who was taking break around that time at the Denny's as they were there when we arrived and there when we left.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Why would you want to make a deal out of it? It sounds like you informed them of the law, and I would bet money they look into it more. You got out of there with no more than a little wasted time, probably no more time than you would take talking to a uninformed citizen.

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    I'm not sure what three chevrons means rank-wise, but I doubt he was the guy's supervisor... I could be wrong.
    would be Sergeant, generally first line supervision for patrolman. If they were on break, chances are the Sgt was their supervisor.

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    Well, sounds like it wasn't a bad encounter overall; all's well that ends well!

    The one officer threatening you with arrest if you asked to see his supervisor was pretty low-class, but obviously he just wasn't expecting you to stand up to him. Good job on that!

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Stealth Potato wrote:
    Well, sounds like it wasn't a bad encounter overall; all's well that ends well!

    The one officer threatening you with arrest if you asked to see his supervisor was pretty low-class, but obviously he just wasn't expecting you to stand up to him. Good job on that!
    Thanks, Trip. It did take some doing on my part as I knew that he could arrest me and there was nothing I could do about it until after the fact, but I couldn't let him push me around like that; it's against everything I've espoused to my friends that were standing there and heard him say it.

    As an aside, did I see you today walking out of Bagley 260 in the class just before mine? (I won't mention the time for both of our privacy's sakes) I've heard some of the talk after the fact from the female prof in that class and it sure doesn't sound like a chem class....
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    underthebridge wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    I'm not sure what three chevrons means rank-wise, but I doubt he was the guy's supervisor... I could be wrong.
    would be Sergeant, generally first line supervision for patrolman. If they were on break, chances are the Sgt was their supervisor.
    Thanks. I guess I got to talk to his supervisor without being arrested after all... *snicker*

    The best part was when he admitted that I 'had all my facts straight', implying that I was right and the patrolman that first talked to me was wrong. I think back now and the patrolman's demeanor became mildly apologetic after that when he was saying he wasn't used to seeing that and wasn't aware it was legal... instead of being authoritative about me being wrong.

    I guess even though I was flusterred, knowing the laws not only helped it end well, it got me treated better and a supervising officer to affirm my legality.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Yeah, reminds me of when I got stopped by the SPD a while back, and I had to correct them on the wording of RCW 9.41.270. I honestly wasn't sure if they were going to try arresting me or seizing my gun or what, but I wasn't going to just meekly allow them to tell me what I was doing was illegal when I knew otherwise.

    We really need to get SPD to issue a training bulletin one of these days.


    just_a_car wrote:
    As an aside, did I see you today walking out of Bagley 260 in the class just before mine? (I won't mention the time for both of our privacy's sakes) I've heard some of the talk after the fact from the female prof in that class and it sure doesn't sound like a chem class....
    Ah, you probably did! I guess I didn't notice you there. I have CSE 403 (software engineering) in that room. It seems like they're trying to find stranger and stranger rooms to put the computer science classes in these days. :P

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    Well done. Way to stand your ground without causing an incident.

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    just_a_car wrote:
    He says "If you talk to my supervisor, you'll be arrested."...So I paused for a second.... "I'd like to speak with your supervisor."
    High Five! Very Nice!

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    Excellent! That's odd my downtown encounters with OPD (usually just a long stare) have been pretty chill. I can't believe the guy told you you would get arrested if you talked to his supervisor. The sgt. probably was his boss. All's well that ends well!

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    An LEO calls me"bro" and I'll be asking him "excuse you? My name is not bro". As I retrieve a pen and my notepad and demand his name or business card as well as a supervisor.

    What a embarassment to the force that clown is.





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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    An LEO calls me"bro" and I'll be asking him "excuse you? My name is not bro". As I retrieve a pen and my notepad and demand his name or business card as well as a supervisor.

    What a embarassment to the force that clown is.



    I was thinking the exact thing. But anyway good job on demanding his superior. I'm glad one in the group had common sense and an ability to actually listen.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    An LEO calls me"bro" and I'll be asking him "excuse you? My name is not bro". As I retrieve a pen and my notepad and demand his name or business card as well as a supervisor. What a embarassment to the force that clown is.
    Just ask 'em to please not taze you, huh? hahaha.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Speaking of the training bulletins. I downloaded them but they are all corrupt and will not open. Anyone else have this issue getting them from here?

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;cat=1

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    M1Gunr wrote:
    Speaking of the training bulletins. I downloaded them but they are all corrupt and will not open. Anyone else have this issue getting them from here?

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;cat=1
    Use the cheat sheets like I did: http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;cat=2
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    M1Gunr wrote:
    Speaking of the training bulletins. I downloaded them but they are all corrupt and will not open. Anyone else have this issue getting them from here?

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;cat=1
    It looks like they got corrupt during the upgrade/downgrade we just went through. I will get them fixed. Thanks for bringing it up.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    thanks much

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:Those got zapped too. You'll have to grab the master copies off my webserver.

    http://www.imspec.org/~jhardin/

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    John Hardin wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:Those got zapped too. You'll have to grab the master copies off my webserver.

    http://www.imspec.org/~jhardin/
    The link is not working.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    You should still contact that department with the location, time,and date of the incident and send along a copy of the training bulletin suggesting they cover this issue with all their officers.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Let me know if anyone needs some downloadable storage -Bill

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    All downloads on nwcdl.org are now fixed except for the Olympia Training Bulletin.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Seattle now has a recruiting campaign set up to get more officers on the PD, and it is directed at the NYC PD. Now the good (?) part. New Dork City PD officers starting pay is right at $25000. Seattle starting pay is nearly DOUBLE that.

    With the attitude that is prevalent in NYC PD, how well do you think they will fit in and adjust to Seattle? Not well, without a bunch of remedial training. Brace your selves it is coming.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Seattle now has a recruiting campaign set up to get more officers on the PD, and it is directed at the NYC PD. Now the good (?) part. New Dork City PD officers starting pay is right at $25000. Seattle starting pay is nearly DOUBLE that.

    With the attitude that is prevalent in NYC PD, how well do you think they will fit in and adjust to Seattle? Not well, without a bunch of remedial training. Brace your selves it is coming.
    Okay, we NEED to get SPD to issue a training bulletin before this gets out of hand. I didn't realize they were going to be hiring NYC PD; it has nothing to do with my encounter (unless the first officer was from NYC, but he didn't sound like it) but we need to head this potential disaster off at the pass.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Seattle now has a recruiting campaign set up to get more officers on the PD, and it is directed at the NYC PD. Now the good (?) part. New Dork City PD officers starting pay is right at $25000. Seattle starting pay is nearly DOUBLE that.

    With the attitude that is prevalent in NYC PD, how well do you think they will fit in and adjust to Seattle? Not well, without a bunch of remedial training. Brace your selves it is coming.
    Lovely. I'm sure they are experienced and fine officers if they make the move across country, but I have heard enough stories about LEO's from Kalifornia coming up here and not understanding that everyone and their grandma owns, uses and carrys guns around here.

    Need some real heavy training on this one. When I was in Kali the cops there told me they liked the gun laws. That way they knew if you had a gun you were automatically a bad guy!:what:

    I imagine it is the same training in New York.

    Maybe some emails to the SPD and Seattle City Attorney are in order.

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