just_a_car
Regular Member
imported post
So, originally I wasn't going to post any of this due to the outcome and the fact that it occurred when I was very tired and thus, forgot to get any names of the officers and I lost my audio recorder months ago. Therefore, everything I write is from memory and will likely have some mistakes due to my memory, but the general material will be sound. It was Denny's on 4th St. in South Seattle in the SODO district, Friday at around 4am I would say... maybe 5. Our group arrived around 3 and stayed for 1-2 hours.
The following is what I sent Lonnie in IM after he asked me to tell him about my encounter:
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Well, I was OC'ing from the time I got there, sat down at the end of the table at Denny's (we were seated at a bunch of tables in the middle at the 4th St Denny's in Seattle) with my strong side towards three SPD officers the whole time. My group was loud here and there and we were fairly well-behaved for a group of 13.
Then it comes time to leave and stand, grab my coat and camera (it was someone's birthday) and hear one of the officers say "whoa!" but I ignored it and just went in line to pay my bill. Then, as I'm standing there, I feel that someone's too close behind me so I put my elbow on my pistol and one of the officers that's less than a foot from my back says "You mind covering that up, bro?"
I said, "I'd prefer not to" and he tells me that I'm required to. I told him "no, Washington is an open carry state" and he flat out tells me it's not. I then asked to speak with his supervisor and he says "If you talk to my supervisor, you'll be arrested." So I paused for a second to collect myself and consider that I was at someone else's party... took a breath, looked him in the eye and said "I'd like to speak with your supervisor." At this point, the other two officers (one didn't talk at all) come over and the one with three chevrons on his coat says "what's the problem here?"
I essentially go through explaining that I would prefer not to cover up. He asks if I've been carrying openly all day and I say yes. Essentially we go back and forth a bit on why I carry openly (because it's easier/more comfortable) and he asks if I have a CPL and I say yes and he asks why I don't conceal, with a confused look, and says "most people get a CPL so that they can conceal." I then explain that I got it so that "when I get into my car to go home, I'm not breaking the law, since I can't enter a vehicle with a loaded firearm without it." at which point the first guy says something to the effect of "I didn't even know that was legal [indicating OC]. We're not used to seeing that around here." and the 3 chevron guy says "well, he's got all his facts straight."
I then showed the first guy the Kent and Everett training bulletins, which he only glanced at, if that. I also told him about OCDO and told him to check it out and told them all that there was movement of OC. The three chevron guy asked if I was part of that movement and I said "yeah, pretty much." Then all but the 3 chevron guy walk off back to their table. He told me that one of the other two had seen me and asked if they knew me; if I was 'one of them. I nodded and said, "I understand why he might ask that." I then thanked the officer, shook his hand and wished them all a safe evening.
On the way out, a hispanic guy with two tears under each eye asked if they were giving me crap and I gave him a brief run-down of legal OC and that you didn't need a license. He said he was going to tell his sister in law who's been looking for some protection. On my way to my car, after chatting with my friends outside a bit to cool off, I noticed one of the cops had entered his vehicle and was working on the laptop. He was doing so as I got in my car and as I left, but he never followed me.
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I honestly wish I'd had my recorder and got some names, since the first guy actually threatened me with arrest if I talked to his supervisor. I'm not sure what three chevrons means rank-wise, but I doubt he was the guy's supervisor... I could be wrong. Though, their identities might be able to be found through a FOIA request on who was taking break around that time at the Denny's as they were there when we arrived and there when we left.
So, originally I wasn't going to post any of this due to the outcome and the fact that it occurred when I was very tired and thus, forgot to get any names of the officers and I lost my audio recorder months ago. Therefore, everything I write is from memory and will likely have some mistakes due to my memory, but the general material will be sound. It was Denny's on 4th St. in South Seattle in the SODO district, Friday at around 4am I would say... maybe 5. Our group arrived around 3 and stayed for 1-2 hours.
The following is what I sent Lonnie in IM after he asked me to tell him about my encounter:
----------------------------------------
Well, I was OC'ing from the time I got there, sat down at the end of the table at Denny's (we were seated at a bunch of tables in the middle at the 4th St Denny's in Seattle) with my strong side towards three SPD officers the whole time. My group was loud here and there and we were fairly well-behaved for a group of 13.
Then it comes time to leave and stand, grab my coat and camera (it was someone's birthday) and hear one of the officers say "whoa!" but I ignored it and just went in line to pay my bill. Then, as I'm standing there, I feel that someone's too close behind me so I put my elbow on my pistol and one of the officers that's less than a foot from my back says "You mind covering that up, bro?"
I said, "I'd prefer not to" and he tells me that I'm required to. I told him "no, Washington is an open carry state" and he flat out tells me it's not. I then asked to speak with his supervisor and he says "If you talk to my supervisor, you'll be arrested." So I paused for a second to collect myself and consider that I was at someone else's party... took a breath, looked him in the eye and said "I'd like to speak with your supervisor." At this point, the other two officers (one didn't talk at all) come over and the one with three chevrons on his coat says "what's the problem here?"
I essentially go through explaining that I would prefer not to cover up. He asks if I've been carrying openly all day and I say yes. Essentially we go back and forth a bit on why I carry openly (because it's easier/more comfortable) and he asks if I have a CPL and I say yes and he asks why I don't conceal, with a confused look, and says "most people get a CPL so that they can conceal." I then explain that I got it so that "when I get into my car to go home, I'm not breaking the law, since I can't enter a vehicle with a loaded firearm without it." at which point the first guy says something to the effect of "I didn't even know that was legal [indicating OC]. We're not used to seeing that around here." and the 3 chevron guy says "well, he's got all his facts straight."
I then showed the first guy the Kent and Everett training bulletins, which he only glanced at, if that. I also told him about OCDO and told him to check it out and told them all that there was movement of OC. The three chevron guy asked if I was part of that movement and I said "yeah, pretty much." Then all but the 3 chevron guy walk off back to their table. He told me that one of the other two had seen me and asked if they knew me; if I was 'one of them. I nodded and said, "I understand why he might ask that." I then thanked the officer, shook his hand and wished them all a safe evening.
On the way out, a hispanic guy with two tears under each eye asked if they were giving me crap and I gave him a brief run-down of legal OC and that you didn't need a license. He said he was going to tell his sister in law who's been looking for some protection. On my way to my car, after chatting with my friends outside a bit to cool off, I noticed one of the cops had entered his vehicle and was working on the laptop. He was doing so as I got in my car and as I left, but he never followed me.
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I honestly wish I'd had my recorder and got some names, since the first guy actually threatened me with arrest if I talked to his supervisor. I'm not sure what three chevrons means rank-wise, but I doubt he was the guy's supervisor... I could be wrong. Though, their identities might be able to be found through a FOIA request on who was taking break around that time at the Denny's as they were there when we arrived and there when we left.
