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Thread: Shotgunnery!

  1. #1
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    Yes I know this is a handgun forum, but heck, don't shotguns fit in your hand, too?

    Who makes a sweet boomstick for us lefties? Since I already bought my full sized OC gun (Smith & Wesson M&P40, w/ Trijicon night sights). My shot cannon should be number 2 (or 3 since Im considering a pocket gun for CC/BUG in say .32 acp/naa or .380 acp) especially for home defense situations not an aiming device but a pointing device,
    "Pop in a round a boom! You've blown a hole in something" (paraphrasing Ammunation voiceover).

    I don't know where to start very few lefties out there same with the ambis. (Found the Browning BPS Hi-Capacity though) But is that the best? What about no shoulder stock, pistol grip (personally I'd rather have more points of contact)? Over/Under shotguns? Tactical shotgun with shoulder and pistol grip? 20, 12 or 10 gauge? Ghost ring? Or just say screw it and save up for the Armsel Striker-12/Protecta Street Sweeper?

    Which looks like a drum style Thompson "Anti-Bandit" gun on steroids! (Take a look at the Anti-Bandit ad and the pic of the Lance Corporal for the more than passing resemblance)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_gun

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecta

    I shall yield to your collective wisdom.


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    The Mossberg 500/590 series recommends itself, on account of the placement of the safety (top rear of the receiver, equally accessible for right- and left-hand use). Due to its popularity, it has the advantage that there's a wide range of aftermarket accessories available for it (in particular the Knoxx SpecOps stock).

    The Ithaca model 37 has long been popular with southpaws because it ejects its empties downward. But the new incarnation of Ithaca's been redesigning their website, and the defense models page is currently empty ("coming soon... any month now... honest"). Even if they get round to making a defesnive model, it'll never be as well supported with aftermarket accessories etc. as the Mossberg.

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    As a semi-serious suggestion, how about getting a cheap >$100 side-by-side 12-gauge, filing the appropriate ATF paperwork, and sawing down the barrels to a few inches? Maybe cut off the stock (leaving the pistol grip) too. You wouldn't have to worry about the ejection, and you'd get a much wider shot pattern at close range than anything else. And if your state allows it (Pennsylvania does ) it would be great to OC!

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    I'll throw in another vote for the Mossberg 500/590. I have a Mossberg 500 with a full length 7 shot tube, and a pistol grip with an AR style telescoping stock. The gun is equally capable shooting clay and shooting ground targets. They are also very reasonably priced.

    I originally purchased my mossy with a cruiser pistol grip, but I ended up getting the pistol grip/butt stock. I can always pull the pin and remove the butt stock if I want to, leaving the pistol grip. As far as sights, Iwould suggest that you consider some sort of tactical sights, like ghost rings. My mossy has a brass bead, and while this is great for air targets, it's difficult to look straight down the barrel to pick off ground targets, especially with slugs. Considering caliber, 12 gauge is by far the most common and versatile. If you only have one shotty, it should probably be a 12 gauge.

    Anyway I'm not saying you have to do what I do but I have been 100% happy with mine.

    Oh, question for you. Have you thought of whether you want a pump action or semi-auto? I THOUGHT I wanted a semi originally (I was spoiled in the Corps with the benelli's), but I ended up with a pump. I guess the semi-auto just didn't have enough benefits to justify the extra cost and possible loss of reliability. You also don't have the option of removing the butt stock with a semi-auto.

    So yeah, hope that helps lol.

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    The qualifications for a good HD gun are a shorter length of pull, as in 13" unless you're over 6' 2", an 18-20" barrel, preferably a bead sight if you want the best possible all around option, maybe a light, and utter reliability. I also prefer at least a 5 round capacity. Remington, Browning, Winchester, Saiga, Ithica, Benelli, Mossberg all these brands provide that easily. Which way the shells go isn't really a concern, because frankly, if you can handle shooting a 12 gauge, you probably aren't going to whine about shells falling on your arm.

    So in other words, if you go with a reputable maker, just take your pick, you can't go wrong.
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    I have a Mossberg 500 series, the 50577 persuader, with a 20 in. berrel, and 8 shot capacity.

    Not only is it great for home defence, but it is great for clays and varments.

    When I am out shooting clays with my friends, they all want to borrow my gun. Its natural point to shoot, along with its 20 in. barrel, really powders those clays. The 8 shot capacity makes it so yoy get a lot more shooting between re-loads.

    The ambi saftey is tops too.

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    +1 on the Mossberg, I have a 590 for two leggers and a 500 for wing shooting. With the 500, I can pull the plug, change the barrel to an 18" cylinder bore and I then have two shotguns for HD/Whatever. Another suggestion, maybe look into a side-by-side coach gun with or without exposed hammers. Since I already have a "Tactical" shotgun, I have one with side hammers, it just looks cool and real cowboyish. It also will work on clay and dove too, been there, done that.:celebrateIf you go with the Mossberg, I recommend getting a Sidesaddle ammo carrier and a butt cuff ammo sleeve, 6 rounds in the sidesaddle and 5 more in the buttcuff, handy to have when TSHTF.

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    MOSSBERG 590!
    if you want a tactical shotgun a 590 with a knoxx spec-ops stock would be my choice!!!!

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    Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights.

    Just standing at 50 feet or so with Winchester Ranger slugs I've found I can't even seem to miss aluminum cans. The slugs tend to simply tear them in half. That should translate into the possibility for excellent shot placement when it counts.

    The standard Mossberg ghost ring sights are very quick to get on target, and very accurate with the Ranger slugs and Federal Buckshot I use. Federal's Tactical Buckshot with the "flitecontrol" wad is awesome and it sends significantly tighter groups downrange than any other buckshot round I've used thus far.

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    As a semi-serious suggestion, how about getting a cheap >$100 side-by-side 12-gauge, filing the appropriate ATF paperwork, and sawing down the barrels to a few inches? Maybe cut off the stock (leaving the pistol grip) too. You wouldn't have to worry about the ejection, and you'd get a much wider shot pattern at close range than anything else. And if your state allows it (Pennsylvania does ) it would be great to OC!
    That's pretty much what I have except that I didnt modify the stock. Mine's a 12 gaugeStevens (Savage)model 311 that I bought from a friend 13 years ago for $85. I just had the barrels cut down to 20". The safety is on the tang just behind the unlocking lever so it's good for left or right handed shooting. This scattergun was my primary home defense weap for several years until I got around to buying a handgun.

    It's fun as hell to shoot out in the boondocks too!
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    I shoot trap and hunt LH with a 20 ga. Browning BPS. Bottom load/bottom eject, never a problem and a beautiful gun. As a tactical firearm though, I dunno - you might want something more flexible and with a higher capacity.




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    Oh, and while I don't own one the Mossberg 50577 (12ga, 20" BBL, 7+1 capacity)seems to be a very good deal, at around $200. It should be similarly solid compared to the 590, although it lacks the ghost ring sights available on the 590. Those are the bestsights any shotgun I've used. They're very quick toget on targetand quite accurate.

    I do also own a NEFH&R 12gaPardner Pump (18.5" bbl, 5+1 round capacity of 2 3/4" shells), and it has never once failed on me.It is a "made in china" clone of the Remington 870, and oddly enough it actually uses more metal than the Remington. The current Remington 870's that I've seen have a plastic trigger guard for instance, where the Pardner has a metal one. The only thing with the pardner is the pump action isn't as tight as it would be on a Remington, it can twist side to side a bit. This has never caused a problem with functioning though. It shoots slugs, regular 2 3/4" loads andeven 3" magnum loads without any problems. It was well under $200, about $160 IIRC. For the money it's not bad at all, and I would most definitely trust it to function if I ever reallyneeded it.

    This is it, althoughthey're out of stock at this particular store currently:

    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/16597

    It's a very good indoor defense shotgun because it'svery short. The stock is significantly shorter than the Mossberg 590 I have, asisthe barrel,which makes handling it inside much easier. If I'm outside I'll take the 590 everytime though.

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    Get yourself a Mossberg 930 SPX. They're teh pwn!

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    The only thing I don't like about semi-auto's is the possible inability to use certain types of ammunition. I usually keep low recoil slugs and buckshot in the 590 for home defense, and I'm not certain whether or not they will cycle a semi-auto shotgun. If it will function with those rounds and you can afford it, then I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a consideration. The ghost ring sights are something that I'd never go without now that I have them. Plus that thing looks plain nasty!

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    USAF_MetalChris wrote:
    Get yourself a Mossberg 930 SPX. They're teh pwn!

    Link
    When I was originally considered a shotgun purchase, I was leaving heavily towards semi-auto. I was spoiled in the Marine Corps with the benelli's. The more I researched though, the more I started leaning towards the pump action. The main thing that finally pushed me away from a semi-auto shotty was the fact that I would be spending more for arguably less reliability.

    With that being said I still think the SPXs look awesome, and I will probably own one someday now that I have a 500.


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    Another vote for the Mossy 590. 8+1+4 rounds, ghost ring sights, barrels can be swapped in under 2 minutes (when I bought mine, the salesman did it in about 45 seconds, without rushing). Keep the stock 20" barrel for H.D., buy 24-28" barrels for appropriate hunting/sporting purposes, they seem to run between $100-200. I'm planning a rifled barrel for slugs, and something with changeable chokes for birds/clays. Tons of accesories available, both tactical and sporting. I highly recommend a goodrecoil pad, they kick like a mule with 1 oz. rifled slugs...

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    I've said this before and I belive it.
    My choise Mossburg 590A1. Ghost Ring Sights, 8-shot mag, bayonet lug(can you imagine the face of the BG when you come out with that on. No I don't use it). As for ammo in your house #7 1/2 or 8 birdshot is my choice. Even if you pull the entire charge of birdshot off target , it will be absorded by the double wall. Yes, some pellets might make it through, but the physical damage to uninvolved personnel will be inconsequential compared to what buckshot would have done. As for outside use Federal Law Enforcement oo buckshot.


    Modification to the gun in my option, the best one is to the barrel done by Hans Vang. He ports and back bores the barrel that gives you a real nice group with the oo buckshot. I bought the gun off a local dealer($370. in 1998)then sent the barrel to Hans he did the barrel work. I think the cost was $180.

    The stock I replaced with a Knoxx SpecOps Adjustable Stock. The think is the greatest. Itreduced felt recoil as much as 95%. It's like shooting a .410.


    Try these websites. Plus I would suggest reading "The Tactical Shotgun" by Gabriel Suarez.






    1. https://www.vangcomp.com/Mossberg_590.html



    2. http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?s...t_tactical.asp



    3. http://www.gunsamerica.com/976979333...p_Mil_Spec.htm




    4. http://www.knoxxrecoilsolutions.com/...wProd.php?id=1


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    I have to agree with most of the others here, the Mossberg 590 is a great defensive shotgun.

    That being said I have to admit to being addicted to/in love with my Winchester '97 Trench Gun (with the matching M1917 bayonet).

    Work that slide smartly and the empty shells will eject right over your arm on 'most any pump shotgun. The Ithaca 37 is a great shotgun for southpaws, though. You ought to be able to get a good used police 37 fairly inexpensively.

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    As for ammo in your house #7 1/2 or 8 birdshot is my choice. Even if you pull the entire charge of birdshot off target , it will be absorded by the double wall. Yes, some pellets might make it through, but the physical damage to uninvolved personnel will be inconsequential compared to what buckshot would have done.

    Indeed, I keep my H&R 18.5" Pardner Pump loaded in an interesting manner. The one in the chamber as well as the next one in the mag tube are Federal "Hi-Brass" #7 1/2 Birdshot. This is some potent stuff at 1330fps. These should produce severe damage at close range.


    As for outside use Federal Law Enforcement oo buckshot.


    The last four rounds in the Pardner Pump are Federal Tactical Low Recoil 9 Pellet 00 Buckshot with the "flitecontrol" wad. These are in case there's more than one person and the uninjured thugs try to attack after the first two shots. In that case I will need rounds that are going to be extremely effective. I trust these buckshot rounds, more than any other I've tried, with my life. They have been proven on the battlefield in Iraq.

    They give the tightest groups, by FAR, of any buckshot round I've ever used. With the cylinder bore "choke" on the 590, I still get extremely tight groups. A shot at that range or closer should put all 9 pellets into a target's head (As long as your aim is on point and they don't have a tiny head). A center mass shot will be similarly devastating, likely completely shredding whatever internals are in the region it passes through (And hopefully hitting the CNS). With the decreased velocity, the risk of overpenetration through a target is decreased as well.

    I also purchased some Federal Tactical Low Recoil 1oz Hydrashock Slugs this week. The boxes of five came in a brand new unopened white Federal LE ammo box, so I was very happy with the supplier I got them from. I can't wait to try them!

    I currently use and absolutely love Winchester's Ranger Low Recoil 1oz Slugs. They are really accurate and consistent compared to something like Remington "Sluggers" and should be extremely reliable in the worst of conditions. The shells are very slick, allowing for excellent feed and extraction reliability. I trust these rounds with my life and they're what I keep in my 590. They have also been proven on the battlefield in Iraq. It's kind of funny that I like shotguns so much, but at the same time I really prefer to use slugs in them, big slimy banana slugs.




  20. #20
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    Weak 9mm wrote:
    As for ammo in your house #7 1/2 or 8 birdshot is my choice. Even if you pull the entire charge of birdshot off target , it will be absorded by the double wall. Yes, some pellets might make it through, but the physical damage to uninvolved personnel will be inconsequential compared to what buckshot would have done.

    Indeed, I keep my H&R 18.5" Pardner Pump loaded in an interesting manner. The one in the chamber as well as the next one in the mag tube are Federal "Hi-Brass" #7 1/2 Birdshot. This is some potent stuff at 1330fps. These should produce severe damage at close range.
    ...I used to think birdshot would be the better choice in doors, since I live in an apartment with a common wall. I went to the range one day and compared the difference between birdshot and buckshot impacts on a 2 liter bottle filled with water. Buckshot blew the bottle in half at 20 or so feet. Birdshot, on the other hand, didn't even knock the bottle over at 10 feet. It just put some holes in it and the water started draining out. I was not impressed with the birdshot at all.

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    ..I used to think birdshot would be the better choice in doors, since I live in an apartment with a common wall. I went to the range one day and compared the difference between birdshot and buckshot impacts on a 2 liter bottle filled with water. Buckshot blew the bottle in half at 20 or so feet. Birdshot, on the other hand, didn't even knock the bottle over at 10 feet. It just put some holes in it and the water started draining out. I was not impressed with the birdshot at all.
    Birdshot will fill stuff with about a hundred tiny holes like you say. I've tried it in a number of different targets with decent results. It will get into a wet phone book enough for me to trust it to do the following:

    You've got to go for the face and neck with it, that's for sure. My thoughts are that it will penetrate an eyelid, so even if they close their eyes they will have a major problem. If they're hit in the neck the multiple tiny holes in their jugular on either side may be a little bit of a problem for them. I would think it can make it into the trachea as well. It should also get through their cheeks, ears, etc. It will tear them up badly and likely leave them blind, stunned and temporarily deafened. At close range the Federal birshot still blows things around pretty nastily. I wouldn't trust it to reach vitals though.

    That's why there are only two rounds of it, and if they fail (Or if there are multiple attackers, which will require much quicker and more guaranteed incapacitation) the thug and his friends will begin to receive tight groups of Federal Tactical 00 Buck. My hope is that a well placed shot or two of the Federal birdshot will solve the problem without putting the neighbors at risk. Also, depending upon the situation, I may just pick up the 590. Then they'll have 9 low recoil Winchester Ranger slugs to deal with, and that will be a serious problem.

  22. #22
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    Weak 9mm wrote:
    ..I used to think birdshot would be the better choice in doors, since I live in an apartment with a common wall. I went to the range one day and compared the difference between birdshot and buckshot impacts on a 2 liter bottle filled with water. Buckshot blew the bottle in half at 20 or so feet. Birdshot, on the other hand, didn't even knock the bottle over at 10 feet. It just put some holes in it and the water started draining out. I was not impressed with the birdshot at all.
    Birdshot will fill stuff with about a hundred tiny holes like you say. I've tried it in a number of different targets with decent results. It will get into a wet phone book enough for me to trust it to do the following:

    You've got to go for the face and neck with it, that's for sure. My thoughts are that it will penetrate an eyelid, so even if they close their eyes they will have a major problem. If they're hit in the neck the multiple tiny holes in their jugular on either side may be a little bit of a problem for them. I would think it can make it into the trachea as well. It should also get through their cheeks, ears, etc. It will tear them up badly and likely leave them blind, stunned and temporarily deafened. At close range the Federal birshot still blows things around pretty nastily. I wouldn't trust it to reach vitals though.

    That's why there are only two rounds of it, and if they fail (Or if there are multiple attackers, which will require much quicker and more guaranteed incapacitation) the thug and his friends will begin to receive tight groups of Federal Tactical 00 Buck. My hope is that a well placed shot or two of the Federal birdshot will solve the problem without putting the neighbors at risk. Also, depending upon the situation, I may just pick up the 590. Then they'll have 9 low recoil Winchester Ranger slugs to deal with, and that will be a serious problem.
    I'll agree that birdshot to the face would be effective, but I don't want to have to rely on a headshot at 3 am down a dark hallway. I stilldon't thinkthat birdshot to center of mass at 10 feet will stop an attacker immediately. (edited for double negative, lol)

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    You don't think it will stop them or you do? It reads like you do think a center of mass hit at 10ft will stop them.

    I question it for some people. However, it is certainly probable that for most people it will stop them and I think it will cause serious pain and tissue damage at the very least. Honestly, if it's totally dark I'm probably going to be using my Glock 17 with night sights. I'm not arguing with you about it's effectiveness (Or lack thereof) though. I simply don't want to kill neighbors, especially if the first and second shots solve the problem. Plus, if night time accuracy is such a concern, birdshot will be much more likely to hit them than the buckshot rounds I carry (Or slugs of course). From my experience the pattern is the size of a dinner plate after 15 feet or so. It's not that hard to hit the upper torso, neck and head with one or two shots IMO. Regardless, I've seen the effects of this particular round in jugs, phone books, etc, so I do have a good idea of what it will and wont do.

    I'm not going to change the way it's loaded at this time though, because it works for me. If it doesn't work for you I don't suggest using this combination. I simply mentioned what I use in the Pardner, I never said everyone needs to use it. My Mossberg is loaded with slugs, so if I pick that up first there wont be a penetration issue.

  24. #24
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    I'd rather have 9-18 big holes in my walls to patch up than 1000-2000. :P I'll stick w/ my 00.

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    So will I, after the first 1 or 2 shots.

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