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Thread: What is considered "Open Carry"?

  1. #1
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    Hey, all. NW Reno resident here.

    Looking around, I cannot seem to clarify what constitutes open carry as far as what is kosher in holsters.

    Would this IWB be ok?



    Or is it necessary to have a fully OWB holster?

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    Nope, thats concealed.

    Depends on the LEO though. Some will leave it alone if it is able to be seen that clearly it is a firearm. However, technically, that is concealed.

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    Ok, OWB only. Thanks.

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    A quick google search turned up this definition for me. BobCav may have a better answer.

    NRS 202.350 Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions.

    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not:

    (d) Carry concealed upon his person any:

    (1) Explosive substance, other than ammunition or any components thereof;

    (2) Dirk, dagger or machete;

    (3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon; or

    (4) Knife which is made an integral part of a belt buckle.

    8. As used in this section:

    (a) “Concealed weapon” means a weapon described in this section that is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    That last sentence is what is hanging me up. If the grip is fully visible, does that constitute concealed?

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    yes, it could be considered concealed. In theory, you might only have a pistol grip for decoration...

    My LEO buddies all say it depends on the LEO, the situation & the person in question. According to them, if it it not OWB, then it is technically concealed and they CAN treat it as such if they think that the situation warrants it.

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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    yes, it could be considered concealed. In theory, you might only have a pistol grip for decoration...

    My LEO buddies all say it depends on the LEO, the situation & the person in question. According to them, if it it not OWB, then it is technically concealed and they CAN treat it as such if they think that the situation warrants it.
    Yes. Beware of LEOs. Many or most of them think "their discretion" is a license to kill or to harass. Their knowlege of law is perfunctory at best and they certainly often feel free to make a mistake now and never worry about it because they think they are absolutely exempt from being properly held to account. They are not lawyers and their training in law is very limited. Most people do not understand this.

    Consider this: In legal contemplation, to have acted according to the advice of an attorney is considered a perfect defense. I would have the "advice" in writing and signed though.

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    Hey schrizade, welcome to OCDO! I'm in NW Reno also. Wellfor another 6 weeks, that is.

    In VA, where I just came from, that's clearly OC. That battle was already fought and won. I would opine that it is most clearly recognizeable as a firearm and there is no intent to keep it discernably concealed from normal observation. If you see the grip, you know it's a gun. Anyone have the court opinions to that effect?

    I don't think anyone with any common sense would carry something that LOOKS like a firearm even for "decoration", as thatstill constitutes a concealed weapon.



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    Hmm, I am going to write the Washoe County Sherriff and ask them.

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    How could that not be considered discernible?

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    To the average person it is. However, IF an LEO decided otherwise, they could make the case that you were concealing it as the whole firearm was not visible.

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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    yes, it could be considered concealed. In theory, you might only have a pistol grip for decoration...

    My LEO buddies all say it depends on the LEO, the situation & the person in question. According to them, if it it not OWB, then it is technically concealed and they CAN treat it as such if they think that the situation warrants it.
    To that end, if I have a large holster that fully covers the firearm, and its color blends with the color of my pants, it might be difficult to notice. What is "ordinary" observation?

    Just playing devils advocate with you, I agree with your point.

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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    To the average person it is. However, IF an LEO decided otherwise, they could make the case that you were concealing it as the whole firearm was not visible.
    You make a good point. We know LEOs do not lie {snicker}, but what if they noticed your shirt "covering your firearm", and only after you noticed them looking at you did you uncover your firearm.

    Judges believe the testimony of police over you every time, so why would this be any different if you encounter spiteful LEO who doesn't appreciate OC?

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    timf343 wrote:
    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    yes, it could be considered concealed. In theory, you might only have a pistol grip for decoration...

    My LEO buddies all say it depends on the LEO, the situation & the person in question. According to them, if it it not OWB, then it is technically concealed and they CAN treat it as such if they think that the situation warrants it.
    To that end, if I have a large holster that fully covers the firearm, and its color blends with the color of my pants, it might be difficult to notice. What is "ordinary" observation?

    Just playing devils advocate with you, I agree with your point.
    At that point, the holster is not part of your clothing but rather a device that is obvious to carrying a firearm on your person.

    To the reverse of the argument, a concealed holster is also itself concealed and if anything, could probably be used against you as further evidence of your intention to in fact carry concealed.

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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    At that point, the holster is not part of your clothing but rather a device that is obvious to carrying a firearm on your person.

    To the reverse of the argument, a concealed holster is also itself concealed and if anything, could probably be used against you as further evidence of your intention to in fact carry concealed.
    But if I have a gun tucked in my waistband and a really tight t-shirt covers it so that it fully prints through, wouldn't the shape/outline be very clearly discernible as a gun to anyone looking at me?

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    Could be a plastic water gun.

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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    Could be a plastic water gun.
    I guess that first picture could be a BB gun, can't see the red tip.

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    In the end here, we all know that when you are going to OC, it is better to be very straight forward and "open" with it.

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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    In the end here, we all know that when you are going to OC, it is better to be very straight forward and "open" with it.
    Well, I'm going to cover all my bases and get a CCW. Either way, I'm covered as the SO's here in Carson City are often Class A jerks.

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    Loneviking wrote:
    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    In the end here, we all know that when you are going to OC, it is better to be very straight forward and "open" with it.
    Well, I'm going to cover all my bases and get a CCW. Either way, I'm covered as the SO's here in Carson City are often Class A jerks.
    Even though it's not required, a CCW is highly recommended (at least by me):

    1. You avoid accidentally becoming a criminal if you accidentally conceal when your comes untucked, or when you're wearing a coat.

    2. It "legally" allows you to carry in places that openly restrict firearms (some casinos here in Vegas have signs, and would very likely 86 anyone they see OC). Remember, you're only trespassing if they ask you to leave.

    3. Though it's NOT required, it can help you end an encounter with law enforcement. This does not mean you shouldn't complain about an illegal encounter. But a CCW permit is a helpful excuse for ending such an unpleasant encounter more quickly. And maybe I'm going too far this one, because we know police NEVER lie, but it also protects you in case said anti-OC LE claims you were illegally concealing.

    Tim

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    timf343 wrote:
    Loneviking wrote:
    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    In the end here, we all know that when you are going to OC, it is better to be very straight forward and "open" with it.
    Well, I'm going to cover all my bases and get a CCW. Either way, I'm covered as the SO's here in Carson City are often Class A jerks.
    Even though it's not required, a CCW is highly recommended (at least by me):

    1. You avoid accidentally becoming a criminal if you accidentally conceal when your comes untucked, or when you're wearing a coat.

    2. It "legally" allows you to carry in places that openly restrict firearms (some casinos here in Vegas have signs, and would very likely 86 anyone they see OC). Remember, you're only trespassing if they ask you to leave.

    3. Though it's NOT required, it can help you end an encounter with law enforcement. This does not mean you shouldn't complain about an illegal encounter. But a CCW permit is a helpful excuse for ending such an unpleasant encounter more quickly. And maybe I'm going too far this one, because we know police NEVER lie, but it also protects you in case said anti-OC LE claims you were illegally concealing.

    Tim
    Exactly--and there are good reasons to carry concealed at times. Today, I was running errands around Carson City. I go to Safeway, which has a Wells Fargo bank in it---is that a violation of state law? Is the business a grocery store? Or a bank?

    Then, a stop by Wal-Mart and Costco. I suppose I could get away with open carry, but I'm in a hurry and the last thing I want is some recent transplant from SoCal or Jersy to go hysterical at the sight of an openly carried weapon. That results in the SO's being called and more problems than I have time for.

    That's why I have a little CZ82 on it's way and will be taking the CCW class next month!

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    Loneviking wrote:
    Exactly--and there are good reasons to carry concealed at times. Today, I was running errands around Carson City. I go to Safeway, which has a Wells Fargo bank in it---is that a violation of state law? Is the business a grocery store? Or a bank?

    <snip>
    Actually, it's not a violation of state law either way. With the exception of private schools and child care facilities, no private property is restricted by law. The worst thing you can be charged with is trespassing if you refuse to leave when asked.

    Banks and grocery stores are just fine (again, unless they ask you to leave and you don't). I have carried OC and CC in both and have never had a problem.


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    Vegas_Dave wrote:
    Nope, thats concealed.

    Depends on the LEO though. Some will leave it alone if it is able to be seen that clearly it is a firearm. However, technically, that is concealed.


    Hi, Dave

    The picture in the OP's post is considered OC. Concealed carry is when the gun is 100% concealed from view.




    Paw

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    timf343 wrote:
    Loneviking wrote:
    Exactly--and there are good reasons to carry concealed at times. Today, I was running errands around Carson City. I go to Safeway, which has a Wells Fargo bank in it---is that a violation of state law? Is the business a grocery store? Or a bank?

    <snip>
    Actually, it's not a violation of state law either way. With the exception of private schools and child care facilities, no private property is restricted by law. The worst thing you can be charged with is trespassing if you refuse to leave when asked.

    Banks and grocery stores are just fine (again, unless they ask you to leave and you don't). I have carried OC and CC in both and have never had a problem.


    Same here. I OC a lot lately because I need to lose 58 lbs and can't fit even my Sparks Watch Six in my waistband.

    I have had no negative reactions so far, including the north part of The Strip and downtown at Fremont Street Experience.

    That being said, most people only notice the gun after talking to me for 5 minutes and that cracks me up. I think people assume I'm LEO because of my age and short hair. I carry myself like the gun is just "supposed to be there".

    I also have not had any flack about OCing in the shopping mall section of Planet Hollywood (old Alladin).




    Paw

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