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Thread: Advisory wallet card

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I'm working on a business card size informational handout on tips for handling an encounter with an LEO while open carrying. The card will be a folded card that when folded in half will be about the size of a business card. We do have room for more information on the other side. Any comments or suggestion will be appreciated. This is only a draft and is subject to revisions. Ignore the formating on this page,It screwed it up a bit. The final one will be correct.



    OPEN CARRY IN MICHIGAN


    If approached by a police officer in regards to the lawful open carrying of a firearm.[/b]


    1.Be polite and ask the law enforcement officer (LEO) why he is detaining you. If the LEO response is for open carry, inform the LEO it is legal to open carry in Michigan, and ask if you are free to go.


    2. If the LEO states that you are not free to go, ask again if the only reason you are being detained is because of lawful open carry and repeat “officer am I free to go”.


    3. If the LEO continues to detain you and asks for an ID or a license to carry a concealed pistol (CPL), tell the LEO you are not required to have an ID or a CPL to open carry. By law you only need to verbally give your name, address and age, if the stop is only for the open carry of a firearm. It is your option to provide an ID if you desire. Providing an ID or CPL may expedite the stop.


    4. If the officer wants to disarm you let him do so. Do not place your hands anywhere near the firearm. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful requests.Continue to repeat that open carry is legal and ask “officer am I free to go”.



    5. Do not argue with the LEO, do not say anything that will be used against you. Do not editorialize on the law.


    6. If the situation escalates ask for the LEO’s supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ.


    7. Never consent to a search of your person or vehicle. State “I DO NOT consent to any search. The LEO may search you anyway don’t fight the search. Save any arguments for a court of law. Keep asking if you are free to go, and “Why am I being detained.”



    8. If you are arrested, ask for an attorney and remain silent until you have counsel.




    1-MSP Legal Update Newsletter[/b]: April 2007 Did You Know: It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol



    2-1990 MCL 123.1102[/b] (PREEMPTION LAW) A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to,… ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms,... This law was upheld by the MI Supreme Court.

    THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 No. 242237 in part states …we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.]

    3-[/b]BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.

    4-Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section: e-mail response“…Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders.]The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones. Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police, (517) 336-6441” Backed by Attorney General opinion 7073 date:1/02


    For more information on open carry in Michigan go to:










    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    One of my hobbies is heraldry (coats of arms) and I was playing with a logo idea for Michigan open carry using a coat of arms. I tried to stay within the rules of heraldry (there are many) to come up with something along the lines of a belt and holster. I hope it works. Comments welcome.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Very nice job!

    The only thing I need to ask about is the requirement to give an officer your name and such. It seems to me that if there is no probable cause for a crime, that there is no need to even do that much. At least not by any law I know of. A cop could perhaps make you wait a while while he or she called the on call prosecutor who would tell the cop that you were not breaking a law, but I don't see a reason why the cops are entitled to your name or any other information.

    Anyway, this is an extremely good idea, and you set it up very well. I think the only other thing we need is a Michigan FAQ sticky for lurkers and new members.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  4. #4
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    Michigander wrote:
    Very nice job!

    The only thing I need to ask about is the requirement to give an officer your name and such. It seems to me that if there is no probable cause for a crime, that there is no need to even do that much. At least not by any law I know of. A cop could perhaps make you wait a while while he or she called the on call prosecutor who would tell the cop that you were not breaking a law, but I don't see a reason why the cops are entitled to your name or any other information.

    Anyway, this is an extremely good idea, and you set it up very well. I think the only other thing we need is a Michigan FAQ sticky for lurkers and new members.
    I think you are right on the name/ID request. May have to revise after some more research. We could change it to "it's your option to give your name or not, and we recommend you do" something like that. What do others think?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Save your time and don't put too much effort into this.

    I have these cards with the standard "will not consent to searchs, will not answer questions." and such.

    Twice I've attempted to hand it to officers during a routine traffic stop and twice they told me to hand them ONLY my drivers license and registration. When I held the pre-made "rights card" out to them, they refused to take it, saying they don't want to see it.

    There is no law nor rule which states they have to read and review it. In VA, during the infamous "Tony's 7 incident" one of theindividuals unlawfulytargetedhad a print out of relavent VA laws to show they weren't in violation of any laws. The responding officers refused (rudely) to even acknolwedge it.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

  6. #6
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    ChinChin wrote:
    Save your time and don't put too much effort into this.

    I have these cards with the standard "will not consent to searchs, will not answer questions." and such.

    Twice I've attempted to hand it to officers during a routine traffic stop and twice they told me to hand them ONLY my drivers license and registration. When I held the pre-made "rights card" out to them, they refused to take it, saying they don't want to see it.

    There is no law nor rule which states they have to read and review it. In VA, during the infamous "Tony's 7 incident" one of theindividuals unlawfulytargetedhad a print out of relavent VA laws to show they weren't in violation of any laws. The responding officers refused (rudely) to even acknolwedge it.
    The cards are not for the officer, the cards are for the citizen that has been stopped openly carrying a handgun. It is for the citizen to review while he is stopped. This is a stressful time and they may forget some information, having a quick reference may help them handle the situation better. Having a few legal references can't hurt either.

    A Michigan motorcycle group has a similar card in regards to the illegal helmet law and it has been very helpful to it's members when stopped by LEOs. We though we might try it. Even if the cards are never made my post may still be of help.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    “The charge of every citizen of a free state is to be ever vigilante of the government’s role as their servant and not allow it to become their master.” Brian Jeffs, 2008

    On common sense: Randy Wayne White wrote in his novel Captiva [/i]“It is a character standard from folklore in which “good old common sense” is an essential bedrock ingredient. But too often “common sense” is a safe harbor of ignorance and an excuse for intellectual laziness. They don’t need the facts because they already know the truth—their common sense has spared them the effort of investigation or thought.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Looks good to me.

    Are you going to print them up? Need money?

    Lawyer gunna look it over?

  9. #9
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    dougwg wrote:
    Looks good to me.

    Are you going to print them up? Need money?

    Lawyer gunna look it over?
    Lawyer? we don need no stinkin' lawyer. It will have a proceed at your own risk disclaimer on it.

    Working on getting them printed. Does anyone know a printer that would do them cheap?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
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    Yes in battle creek mi. has such a print man has been here forever. Very good,

    Benjamin Press 380 van buren st. w. 1-269-964-7562

    Suggest to add the MCL code to each reference on the card, Open Carry=MCL......



  11. #11
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    mastiff69 wrote:
    Yes in battle creek mi. has such a print man has been here forever. Very good,

    Benjamin Press 380 van buren st. w. 1-269-964-7562

    Suggest to add the MCL code to each reference on the card, Open Carry=MCL......

    Will he print them at cost???? or better yet free???

    Not sure what you mean...adding MCL code to open carry=MCL. There is no MCL in regards to open carry. There is no law that open carry is illegal. The other references I mention deal with AG opinions or MSP opinions, except for the Preemption law which I reference. Explain please.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
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    Thats what i meant add whatever refernece pretained to the item that is on the card as an added reference for info purposes.

    And i will call him on the cards what size total 3x5 4x8 etc, one side, both sides ? will see on price.

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    I have carried a similar card (but mostly for Utah CCW) since I started last year, great idea!

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    The cards are not for the officer, the cards are for the citizen that has been stopped openly carrying a handgun. It is for the citizen to review while he is stopped. This is a stressful time and they may forget some information, having a quick reference may help them handle the situation better. Having a few legal references can't hurt either.

    A Michigan motorcycle group has a similar card in regards to the illegal helmet law and it has been very helpful to it's members when stopped by LEOs. We though we might try it. Even if the cards are never made my post may still be of help.
    Ah yes, now that I took time to read the whole thing, I see my error.

    Redacted.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Venator, I never got the file from you. If you can forwardme theoriginal file I can get us pricing on that. At the very least I should be able to get us wholesale on the printing. Which is to say that I'm sure my grandfather will have them made for me at his cost. I'm just glad to see the card idea work out. I know that a lot of people have a very hard time keeping themselves cool, calm, and collected when confronted. Being confronted can be a very stressful situation and anything that you have at your disposal to help you will only help bring the situation to a peaceful, and speedy end.

  16. #16
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    harley2003rkc wrote:
    Venator, I never got the file from you. If you can forwardme theoriginal file I can get us pricing on that. At the very least I should be able to get us wholesale on the printing. Which is to say that I'm sure my grandfather will have them made for me at his cost. I'm just glad to see the card idea work out. I know that a lot of people have a very hard time keeping themselves cool, calm, and collected when confronted. Being confronted can be a very stressful situation and anything that you have at your disposal to help you will only help bring the situation to a peaceful, and speedy end.
    I just sent you it. let me know if you get it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    That's not a "card," that's a book! :what:

    Come to Wyoming. There is not one single word about open carry in the laws here. The police or sheriffs do not even ask or bother you either. Might be some of that starting in Cheyenne... good place to stay out of anyway. Too many liberals moving in.

    This is the card I carry to give folks who ask about my gun.

    http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/Guncard.htm
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    It did not come through. Try again and I'll get it over to my grandfather. I spoke to him today and he said he'll do it at cost. But we have to order in lots of 1000.

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    harley2003rkc wrote:
    It did not come through. Try again and I'll get it over to my grandfather. I spoke to him today and he said he'll do it at cost. But we have to order in lots of 1000.
    Harley, find out the total cost per 1000 and let us know. I will be happy to donate to the cause.

    Just let me know where to send a check. PM if you do not want that info on the forum.

    Thanks

    Springer

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    harley2003rkc wrote:
    It did not come through. Try again and I'll get it over to my grandfather. I spoke to him today and he said he'll do it at cost. But we have to order in lots of 1000.
    Harley, find out the total cost per 1000 and let us know. I will be happy to donate to the cause.

    Just let me know where to send a check. PM if you do not want that info on the forum.

    Thanks

    Springer
    I will be more than happy to provide the pricing. I figure I'm good for a 1000 myself, and hopefully a few others will be willing to do the same. The more we buy the more the price drops.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I know almost nothing about it, but business cards can be made with standard home printers. Google turned up a dizzying array of information that I'm having a hard time sorting through, but if somebody can figure it out, they make business card paper which you can print cards on, and cut out.

    Not that I have any problem with using the pro's, just saying it can be done.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  22. #22
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    The pre-cut paper for business cards is VERY expensive. Besides we need "double size" and folded.

    I'll help with the $$

  23. #23
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    I still haven't seen the text version from Venator. Sorry guys.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Venator, KUDO'S, most excellent, may I suggest making the star SILVER , reminder of rangers and sheriffs badge. I think it would also support we are NOT anti-LEO.I for one would proudly wear that as a patch on my jacket and hat.I also want one of the wallet cards too.

  25. #25
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I have a business card program in my PrintShop, can make them 10 to a sheet. Made some for the Flint Gear Grinders as I.D. cards. Works really well and looks professional, especially with the laminate. I'd be glad to help with that. You can use regular card stock paper(cheaper) and save on cost. I'll give it a try and see how it comes out.

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