City Bans All Retired Officers from Carrying

sjalterego wrote:

Well I don't have much of a problem with site specific bans such as this, banning the carrying of firearms into City Hall.

What makes me laugh are the reactions of the Retired Police. How often do they need to go to City Hall? They make it sound like they will be attacked every time they go to city hall. The restriction is only to City Hall not a general prohibition if I am reading the article correctly.

Also, I appreciate the fact that the more retired LEO's there are who are armed the safer we are likely to be. However, that argument also works for just plain old civilians. I like it that LEO's get to feel what it's like to be unarmed and unable to arm oneself.

There are generally two justifications for allowing active LEO's to carry concealed when off duty and retired LEO's to carry concealed: to increase public safety and for the officers' protection since they are at greater risk of attack from old grudge bearing criminals.

As to the first, I agree but don't think that justifies limiting CCW only to LEO's. Citizens should be allowed to carry as well.

As to the second, I don't agree. I've been told this but no one has ever provided any statistics indicating that retired LEO's are at any statistically greater risk of being accosted or attacked by criminals for any reason. This excuse is purely bogus.

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When I was an officer while off duty I was approached by a juvenile I arrested while at the gym. He came up to me and told me ,"I'm watching". If I was an ordinary citizen I doubt that would have happened considering I wouldn't have arrested him. We had a first Sgt. off duty who got recognized by a guy and the guy tried to break into his house. It happens all the time. Most cops live in the area they police, some are even required. I'm glad you "like it that LEO's get to feel what it's like to be unarmed". I keep wondering why the big chip on everybody's shoulder against LE here, still not getting it. It's interesting that people are for the 2nd amend. but if anything is against cops then they change their minds. Talk about not being a true supporter of the constitution.

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LEO229,

I'm going to do something that I don't do often. I'm actually going to agree with you, yet again. I think it's a slap in the face as well. From what your saying that privlidge is an unspoken fringe benefit of doing a job well done for many many years. Sort of like being able to use the base exchange when you retire and a variety of other perks entilted to vets who put in their 20.

I imagine the rub you'll get from everyone else on the flip side of that coin is that it only takes one a-hole to ruin it for everyone else, LEO's are no exception to that phenomenon as occupations go now are they? I think it was you that stated in another thread that LEO's are prone to the same errors and phallicies as everyday citizens as well, because they are human just like everyday citizens. I believe that is what most people here acknowledge as well, with the handful of exceptions on either side of that fence.

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nitrovic wrote:

When I was an officer while off duty I was approached by a juvenile I arrested while at the gym. He came up to me and told me ,"I'm watching". If I was an ordinary citizen I doubt that would have happened considering I wouldn't have arrested him. We had a first Sgt. off duty who got recognized by a guy and the guy tried to break into his house. It happens all the time. Most cops live in the area they police, some are even required. I'm glad you "like it that LEO's get to feel what it's like to be unarmed". I keep wondering why the big chip on everybody's shoulder against LE here, still not getting it. It's interesting that people are for the 2nd amend. but if anything is against cops then they change their minds. Talk about not being a true supporter of the constitution.

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While it's true that there's a very real interest in giving LEOs and retired LEOs the ability to defend themselves against people who they have pissed off through, oh, arresting them or their family member(s) (presumably for good reason)... that threat exists for many other citizens as well. Aside from the obvious citizens, like witnesses and complainants, many other citizens have people who might be out to get them, so to speak. LEOs aren't the only people who deal with dangerous individuals. IMHO, the arugment works for granting expansive carry rights to most people, not LEOs exclusively.


I believe most of the perceived anti-LEO statements on here just come off wrong. Granted, there are some members who have it out for the police... but most of those who express discontent for LEOs take issue with how LEOs are generally treated as a "special" class of people. No, that isn't the fault of LEOs themselves (in general), but of a system that gives them this distinction. Non-LEOs see LEOs getting "professional courtesy" when suspected of crimes, along with a slew of other special "privileges". I'd also think it's fair to say that LEOs generally take this special treatment for granted. What is being expressed in regard to this story is how LEOs pay more attention to the rights denied to Non-LEOs when they can no longer use their privileged status.

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imperialism2024 wrote:

While it's true that there's a very real interest in giving LEOs and retired LEOs the ability to defend themselves against people who they have pissed off through, oh, arresting them or their family member(s) (presumably for good reason)... that threat exists for many other citizens as well. Aside from the obvious citizens, like witnesses and complainants, many other citizens have people who might be out to get them, so to speak. LEOs aren't the only people who deal with dangerous individuals. IMHO, the arugment works for granting expansive carry rights to most people, not LEOs exclusively.


I believe most of the perceived anti-LEO statements on here just come off wrong. Granted, there are some members who have it out for the police... but most of those who express discontent for LEOs take issue with how LEOs are generally treated as a "special" class of people. No, that isn't the fault of LEOs themselves (in general), but of a system that gives them this distinction. Non-LEOs see LEOs getting "professional courtesy" when suspected of crimes, along with a slew of other special "privileges". I'd also think it's fair to say that LEOs generally take this special treatment for granted. What is being expressed in regard to this story is how LEOs pay more attention to the rights denied to Non-LEOs when they can no longer use their privileged status.

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Not going to argue that some civilians need protection too and should be armed. We live in a dangerous world.

This is more abouttrust being revoked that has been earned over 20 + years.

In regards to privileges... if you want to complain about cops getting a free cup of coffee or what ever.. how about where you work?

Every employee at all the cell phone provides get free phone service and reduced cost on phones. Is that fair?

People that work at fast food places get a free meal. Is that fair?

Do cops get out of tickets... sometimes. But so do citizens. Have you ever heard of a warning ticket? Should we stop using them and give everyone a ticket from now on?

Being a LEO does not make you a better "class" of people. You are in a job that is highly regarded and often very respected or admired. Just like a fireman or doctor. It is a job.. nota class.

Some see this"class" and they are simply jealous that they are not getting the same treatment. We live in America and all can apply for the job and get those benefits.

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nitrovic, we're absolutely NOT anti-LEO as you're so fond of saying.Yes, we do have some people that have been severely wronged by LEO's and have no bones about saying so. That's their issue. We do not ban individuals here. Hell, we have some folks here that are quite obviously ANTI-NRA (Right Doug! ), but that doesn't make us an ANTI-NRA forum.

We arePro-America, Pro-Constitution, Pro-Liberty andPro-Individual.We are alsoanti-corruption, anti-abuse of power, anti-special privileges, anti-tyranny and most certainlyanti-bullshit. Manyhere are prior military and know first hand what it means to defend the Constitution with our verylives. I retired after 20 years in the Navy and missed an awful lot of holidays, birthdays, anniversaries and family time in those 20 years. And lost my share of friends.

We aremore involved in our community and our society than most citizens and even most other gun forums and it's not because we have a vested financial interest. It's because we have an actual passion for America; for what is right. For this incredible idea that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. It's nothing more thanbeingRESPONSIBLE CITIZENS andone look around will show that more and more Americans are finally opening their eyes and not taking abuses of power from anyone anymore. It's not new and it's not only here.

Sorry, but I can't list the names of the hundred or so LEO's that have seen me OC, knew the law and continued onabout their business. But you can take it to the bank that as sure as I've condemned those who wronged me, I have equally commended those who have righted me! In fact, the only entries I've had reason to make on RateMyCop.com were both commendations.

We do happen to see and report more of those abuses than most citizens because of thenature of what we doas Open Carriers. That is;weinteract with the Police and government officials more often than most citizens. Unfortunately,more often than notthat interaction is caused by THEM notknowing the very laws they're sworn to enforce! I and many others heredo not and will not buy the "you MIGHT be dangerous" argument and neither do the courts. We don't make the laws, but we have to obey them, just like everyone else. And we certainly can't just make them up as we go.

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People have a chip on their shoulders against cops because they think they should be the only one allowed to carry firearms. The rest of us get to be second class citizens. As for this "superior" training cops get it doesn't make me very confident that they are any better at handling guns than the rest of us. The cops in mytown only qualify once a year. I practice at least one a month usually more with my carry gun. So I not convinced that the average cop has superior skill with firearms.

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bohdi wrote:

LEO229,

I'm going to do something that I don't do often. I'm actually going to agree with you, yet again. I think it's a slap in the face as well. From what your saying that privlidge is an unspoken fringe benefit of doing a job well done for many many years. Sort of like being able to use the base exchange when you retire and a variety of other perks entilted to vets who put in their 20.

I imagine the rub you'll get from everyone else on the flip side of that coin is that it only takes one a-hole to ruin it for everyone else, LEO's are no exception to that phenomenon as occupations go now are they? I think it was you that stated in another thread that LEO's are prone to the same errors and phallicies as everyday citizens as well, because they are human just like everyday citizens. I believe that is what most people here acknowledge as well, with the handful of exceptions on either side of that fence.

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Exactly...

When you put in so much time you feel like you have earned it. Not everyone gets what you have so it is a sweet privilege.

Just like the base exchange.... after 20 years of service... retired service members get to use the exchange. You do not really get many benefits like this. How would it be if one of the best benefits was given to everyone that served two years and quit or every civilian in the area??

Getting to carry in every state is probably the only real benefit a retired LEO gets.

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Very well said. I think some did apply and didn't get in, maybe that accounts for some of the antimosity....

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imperialism2024 wrote:

While it's true that there's a very real interest in giving LEOs and retired LEOs the ability to defend themselves against people who they have pissed off through, oh, arresting them or their family member(s) (presumably for good reason)... that threat exists for many other citizens as well. Aside from the obvious citizens, like witnesses and complainants, many other citizens have people who might be out to get them, so to speak. LEOs aren't the only people who deal with dangerous individuals. IMHO, the arugment works for granting expansive carry rights to most people, not LEOs exclusively.


I believe most of the perceived anti-LEO statements on here just come off wrong. Granted, there are some members who have it out for the police... but most of those who express discontent for LEOs take issue with how LEOs are generally treated as a "special" class of people. No, that isn't the fault of LEOs themselves (in general), but of a system that gives them this distinction. Non-LEOs see LEOs getting "professional courtesy" when suspected of crimes, along with a slew of other special "privileges". I'd also think it's fair to say that LEOs generally take this special treatment for granted. What is being expressed in regard to this story is how LEOs pay more attention to the rights denied to Non-LEOs when they can no longer use their privileged status.

Click to expand...

Not going to argue that some civilians need protection too and should be armed. We live in a dangerous world.

This is more abouttrust being revoked that has been earned over 20 + years.

In regards to privileges... if you want to complain about cops getting a free cup of coffee or what ever.. how about where you work?

Every employee at all the cell phone provides get free phone service and reduced cost on phones. Is that fair?

People that work at fast food places get a free meal. Is that fair?

Do cops get out of tickets... sometimes. But so do citizens. Have you ever heard of a warning ticket? Should we stop using them and give everyone a ticket from now on?

Being a LEO does not make you a better "class" of people. You are in a job that is highly regarded and often very respected or admired. Just like a fireman or doctor. It is a job.. nota class.

Some see this"class" and they are simply jealous that they are not getting the same treatment. We live in America and all can apply for the job and get those benefits.

Click to expand...

Very well said. I think some did apply and didn't get in, maybe that accounts for some of the antimosity....

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Who needs 5 gallons of wax?

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massltca wrote:

People have a chip on their shoulders against cops because they think they should be the only one allowed to carry firearms. The rest of us get to be second class citizens. As for this "superior" training cops get it doesn't make me very confident that they are any better at handling guns than the rest of us. The cops in mytown only qualify once a year. I practice at least one a month usually more with my carry gun. So I not convinced that the average cop has superior skill with firearms.

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It goes well beyond that..... it is the the life experience they have achieved over so many years of service. How many times have you drawn your gun and pointed it at someone orcleared a room for a guy that can jump out from around the corner?

Having a gun and shooting at a paper target once a week is far different.

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BobCav wrote:

nitrovic, we're absolutely NOT anti-LEO as you're so fond of saying.Yes, we do have some people that have been severely wronged by LEO's and have no bones about saying so. That's their issue. We do not ban individuals here. Hell, we have some folks here that are quite obviously ANTI-NRA (Right Doug! ), but that doesn't make us an ANTI-NRA forum.

We arePro-America, Pro-Constitution, Pro-Liberty andPro-Individual.We are alsoanti-corruption, anti-abuse of power, anti-special privileges, anti-tyranny and most certainlyanti-bullshit. Manyhere are prior military and know first hand what it means to defend the Constitution with our verylives. I retired after 20 years in the Navy and missed an awful lot of holidays, birthdays, anniversaries and family time in those 20 years. And lost my share of friends.

We aremore involved in our community and our society than most citizens and even most other gun forums and it's not because we have a vested financial interest. It's because we have an actual passion for America; for what is right. For this incredible idea that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. It's nothing more thanbeingRESPONSIBLE CITIZENS andone look around will show that more and more Americans are finally opening their eyes and not taking abuses of power from anyone anymore. It's not new and it's not only here.

Sorry, but I can't list the names of the hundred or so LEO's that have seen me OC, knew the law and continued onabout their business. But you can take it to the bank that as sure as I've condemned those who wronged me, I have equally commended those who have righted me! In fact, the only entries I've had reason to make on RateMyCop.com were both commendations.

We do happen to see and report more of those abuses than most citizens because of thenature of what we doas Open Carriers. That is;weinteract with the Police and government officials more often than most citizens. Unfortunately,more often than notthat interaction is caused by THEM notknowing the very laws they're sworn to enforce! I and many others heredo not and will not buy the "you MIGHT be dangerous" argument and neither do the courts. We don't make the laws, but we have to obey them, just like everyone else. And we certainly can't just make them up as we go.

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What's interesting is most cops are also prior military, most are gun nuts, most are pro-constitution, and almost all are anti-bull.

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How much did that hurt 229? just joking man, lol.

Bob, once again I think you've put it about as clearly as anyone here could, with the exception of a voice or two that have not been heard from in a long long time and I wish they hadn't left.

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