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Thread: Know thine enemy...

  1. #1
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    This is a bit long at 15 minutes but is well worth the view http://www.liveprayer.com/fitna.cfm Islam religion of peace? and please let us not turn this into a Muslim bashing thread.

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    lol those google ads are pretty good. This is what popped up on the top of the page:



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    Quite the propaganda piece... Helps people think that ALL muslims are suicide bombers or are drawing swords to decapitate Jews. Terrible video.

    Excerpts can be taken from the Bible to "prove" christianity is not a religion of peace ("I came not to bring peace, but a sword" Matt. 10:34, etc...), not to mention the crusades...

    I am a Christian and I do believe in the Bible, so don't take my statements the wrong way, but I have read the Quran and it doesn't teach violence any more than the Old Testament does, IMHO.

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    Luke 22:36, the Laotian civil war, any Indian election of the past 50 years... examples abound of the faithful of all stripes wallowing in blood, or calling for it. That's much of my philosophical objection to any and all religion.

    -ljp

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    DreQo wrote:
    lol those google ads are pretty good. This is what popped up on the top of the page:

    I use FireFox, and have a plug-in AdBlock Plus, which disables the advertisements. ( http://adblockplus.org/ ) I had to disable it to see what you were talking about

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    My government has way more force and violence against me over my lifetime than all the Muslims of the world combined. The government is "thine enemy."

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    This was the banner on OCDO after I came back from that site!





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    I'm a Crusader...waiting for Pope Benedict to call for Christians to gather their assorted edged weapons, armor, horses and streaming banners, and ride off on a 3-month journey to the Holy Land to free Jerusalem from the infidels (siege engines to be built on site).

    But someone told me he was a liberal and would never do that.

    Damn.

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Rather interesting video.

    Not going to be that easy to take over the US. We have far too many people armed with guns to permit that.

    So.... They want to rule the world.....

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    So.... They want to rule the world.....
    "That's our f***ing job!"

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    Legba wrote:
    Luke 22:36, the Laotian civil war, any Indian election of the past 50 years... examples abound of the faithful of all stripes wallowing in blood, or calling for it. That's much of my philosophical objection to any and all religion.

    -ljp
    +1

    But... but... it's for the children

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    I'll have to say that after watching that I haven't been this PO'd in a long time. I've been around the world 2.5 times and anyone that says Islam is for piece and not violence can kiss my grits. I been to middle east countries for months on end and during there festive Ramadan as you call it was restricted to US controlled areas due to the threats of violence.



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    Sheldon wrote:
    This is a bit long at 15 minutes but is well worth the view http://www.liveprayer.com/fitna.cfm Islam religion of peace? and please let us not turn this into a Muslim bashing thread.
    I personally dislike Israel more. But that's just me.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    This is an instance, situation and condition in which I think that moral relativism will prove fatal for its purveyors and believers and perhaps to any they lead politically.

    History has clearly shown that when any nation or people express an intent to control the world (or at least a significant portion of it) and to commit genocide, we ignore such a threat at our own risk. Ghingas Kahn, Alexander, Mao Tse Tung, Hitler, Lenin/Stalin, Napolean to name a few. These people were not kidding. Significant percentages of the population were killed. Neighboring peoples had to fight, die or be conquered. In modern times, millions died, often tens of millions. The death rates and types of people chosen for death fundamentally changed the history of certain peoples as their best and brightest were executed or slaughtered on the battlefield.

    Anyone who thinks their "Death to America", "Submit or Die", etc signs are just rhetoric are ignoring the last 2000 years of world history. Because we are a secular society with a bastardized usage of the 1st Amendment we have nearly scrubbed religion (in the classic usage) from our daily lives. I think many Americans forget how important religion is to many people in the world and how incredibly serious they take it. They forget that there are people who literally strap a suicide bomb vest to their own children because their religion and their hatred of you, me, us is more important to them than the (to us) precious life of their child.

    Many of our left leaning politicians (and admittedly a few on the right) think this is a negotiable situation. They think that we can give them something to be left alone or just practice, "I'll quit touching you if you quit touching me," like children and everything will be fine and we'll all get along. The radical on their side don't want "stuff". They want you to believe and live like they do or die. Period. This is not opinion but what they have said time and time and time again in the streets, in madrassas, in mosques, in on the record media interviews, in writings. This is only a secret or mystery to those who choose to not pay attention or dismiss the gravity of their threats. And certainly this is not all of them, not by a long shot, but no world conquest attempt has ever started out with a majority. As they fight and win they grow until reaching critical mass. The quesiton is not if it is all of them, or even a majority of them. The question is, "is it enough of them?"

    edit: typos
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    This is an instance, situation and condition in which I think that moral relativism will prove fatal for its purveyors and believers and perhaps to any they lead politically.

    History has clearly shown that when any nation or people express an intent to control the world (or at least a significant portion of it) and to commit genocide, we ignore such a threat at our own risk. Ghingas Kahn, Alexander, Mao Tse Tung, Hitler, Lenin/Stalin, Napolean to name a few. These people were not kidding. Significant percentages of the population were killed. Neighboring peoples had to fight, die or be conquered. In modern times, millions died, often tens of millions. The death rates and types of people chosen for death fundamentally changed the history of certain peoples as their best and brightest were executed or slaughtered on the battlefield.

    Anyone who thinks their "Death to America", "Submit or Die", etc signs are just rhetoric are ignoring the last 2000 years of world history. Because we are a secular society with a bastardized usage of the 1st Amendment we have nearly scrubbed religion (in the classic usage) from our daily lives. I think many Americans forget how important religion is to many people in the world and how incredibly serious they take it. They forget that there are people who literally strap a suicide bomb vest to their own children because their religion and their hatred of you, me, us is more important to them than the (to us) precious life of their child.

    Many of our left leaning politicians (and admittedly a few on the right) think this is a negotiable situation. They think that we can give them something to be left alone or just practice, "I'll quit touching you if you quit touching me," like children and everything will be fine and we'll all get along. The radical on their side don't want "stuff". They want you to believe and live like they do or die. Period. This is not opinion but what they have said time and time and time again in the streets, in madrassas, in mosques, in on the record media interviews, in writings. This is only a secret or mystery to those who choose to not pay attention or dismiss the gravity of their threats. And certainly this is not all of them, not by a long shot, but no world conquest attempt has ever started out with a majority. As they fight and win they grow until reaching critical mass. The quesiton is not if it is all of them, or even a majority of them. The question is, "is it enough of them?"

    edit: typos
    That's true, but I still dislike Israel more. Sure, the "death to the infidels" types mean it and would kill us all if they could, but so would ants. My point is, just because they want to doesn't mean they can or will. Israel, on the other hand, seems to be doing just fine in their genocide against the palestinians and unjustified bombings of the Lebanese. And why shouldn't they? After all, "god gave them this land".

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    expvideo wrote:
    genocide against the palestinians and unjustified bombings of the Lebanese.
    Please provide cites.

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    yes, please provide cites. also, when was the last time you were in israel, to know these things firsthand

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    possumboy wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    genocide against the palestinians and unjustified bombings of the Lebanese.
    Please provide cites.
    You forgot and story links.... But seriously the only stories I have read in the paper, or seen on the tube are ones about retaliatory or preemptive strikes against military targets. Granted collateral damage is important to the U.S. it is only somewhat so with the Israelis. If they find someone or something they want badly and they (it) are hiding (hid) in a saymosque they (Israel) will attack with full prejudice, and any one or thing that is there with the target is considered a collaborator and fair game just like we did in WWII.

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    Bullbuster wrote:
    I'll have to say that after watching that I haven't been this PO'd in a long time. I've been around the world 2.5 times and anyone that says Islam is for piece and not violence can kiss my grits. I been to middle east countries for months on end and during there festive Ramadan as you call it was restricted to US controlled areas due to the threats of violence.
    That is too bad you had to miss out on Ramadan. When I lived in Mombasa, Kenya (80-90% Muslim), Ramadan was my absolute favorite week there. We were out on the street every night taking part in the celebration, but mostly out for the food, which was incredible! Everyone was thrilled to see a couple of white boys out with all the locals eating the same food, dancing to the same music, riding the same bus...

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    possumboy wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    genocide against the palestinians and unjustified bombings of the Lebanese.
    Please provide cites.

    ill assist, you can start here and then google

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/


    edit- i see expvideo already posted

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    Sheldon wrote:
    possumboy wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    genocide against the palestinians and unjustified bombings of the Lebanese.
    Please provide cites.
    You forgot and story links.... But seriously the only stories I have read in the paper, or seen on the tube are ones about retaliatory or preemptive strikes against military targets. Granted collateral damage is important to the U.S. it is only somewhat so with the Israelis. If they find someone or something they want badly and they (it) are hiding (hid) in a saymosque they (Israel) will attack with full prejudice, and any one or thing that is there with the target is considered a collaborator and fair game just like we did in WWII.
    The point is that to the Israelis, all palestinians are military targets. They claim that they are retaliating or preemptively striking, but they aren't doing it against military targets. They retaliate against the civilians and preemptively strike with little discretion for whether anyone is actually involved in any resistance. They treat the Palestinians horribly. It seems that they use "retaliation" or "preemptive strikes" as excuses to commit acts of violence against the palestinians. Not to mention that the military stands by while the Israeli civilians beat and threaten the palestinians, but if the palestinians stand up to them, the military "puts down the uprising" so to speak.

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    dkd wrote:
    possumboy wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    genocide against the palestinians and unjustified bombings of the Lebanese.
    Please provide cites.

    ill assist, you can start here and then google

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/


    edit- i see expvideo already posted
    So this has nothing to do with the attacks on Isreal and defense of their families?

    When they are being attacked and the attackers are placing themselves in area where other "innocent" are located.

    So, Isreal should just let all attacks against them go because they might hurt some children? Children who are being put in the path of dangers by people attacking Isreal.

    How are all cease fires broken? I never realized it was Isreal that was firing across the border, or sending people across the border to blowup random targets.

    So, Isreal's attacks on people attacking Isreal, no matter how they surround themselves, is unjustified?

    So, I should not even carry in public because I may hit someone else while defending my family from an attacker. Because killing someone to prevent my family from being attacked would be seen has unjustified and a path to genocide if they were a different race than me.

    I get it now.

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    possumboy wrote:
    So, Israel's attacks on people attacking Israel, no matter how they surround themselves, is unjustified?
    Israel has a right to defend itself, and some of what goes on is that. Palestines also have a right to defend themselves, and some of what goes on is that. Much of what goes on, however, is acting out of aggression on both sides.

    I spend some time in Israel a few years ago, and had a chance to talk to a number of Israelis, from many walks of life. What struck me was the depth of their fear and hatred, even in otherwise very calm, stable people. What I realized is that if the fear and hatred is reciprocated -- and I'm sure it is, although I didn't talk to any Arabs -- then this will never end. Neither side can ever believe the other will stop, and both sides instantly assume the worst about the other in any confrontation or conflict.

    Israel's fear and hatred have been learned over the course of centuries. Jews were an embattled minority virtually everywhere they lived, even before the holocaust, and getting their own nation didn't change things much, particularly the way that the establishment of Israel went down. The British screwed it up pretty badly, increasing tensions on both sides so much that the Palestinians refused a reasonable accomodation when it was proposed.

    Ongoing tensions have deepened the fear, hatred and mistrust on both sides to the point where the conflict is basically racial, the political basis irrelevant, and there is no such thing as a civilian. Both sides occasionally commit atrocities, and both sides are immediately ready to call almost any action by the other side an atrocity.

    The Palestinians tend to commit more atrocities, but I don't think that's because they're any dirtier than the Israelis at this point, it's because they're weaker than Israel, and strike with the methods available to them. I'm not justifying their suicide bombings, just pointing out that I think that were the relative positions of power reversed, Israel would be committing terrorist attacks (though maybe not suicide bombers, the Jewish faith doesn't lend itself to those as readily as Muslim or Christian beliefs).

    The bottom line, as I see it, is that both sides are equally wrong. One of them may be slightly more wrong than the other at a given point in time, but the score will be evened, and reversed. This is a situation of bone-deep hatred between two groups of people. The disputes over land, specific actions by one side or the other, civilians killed, etc., are all just posturing and positioning for the world's benefit.

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    swillden wrote:

    The bottom line, as I see it, is that both sides are equally wrong. One of them may be slightly more wrong than the other at a given point in time, but the score will be evened, and reversed. This is a situation of bone-deep hatred between two groups of people. The disputes over land, specific actions by one side or the other, civilians killed, etc., are all just posturing and positioning for the world's benefit.
    The hatred is a lot More wide spread than just two groups, Sunni N Shiite hate each others guts to the same extent that the Palestine's hate the Israelis,the real problem is the hate mongering radical extremist that want any one not of theirMuslim sect dead, and the Jews just happen to be on that list, if there were a big block to Christan's over there you could bet your last dollar that they would be in the middle of it too.

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