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Thread: Douglas Co Sheriff Violates NRS

  1. #1
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    This is germane to concealed carry. But this is a good example of why we must continue to scrutinize county/city/town ordinances to ensure all are in compliance with state law.

    See http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080409/NEWS04/804090435/0/NEWS01

    A couple of things wrong here.

    First, the CCW instructor is the person at fault. He should NOT have signed off firearms in which he did not witness actual qualification.

    Second, and this is HUGE, the RGJ article says:

    In Douglas County, the sheriff's office releases the names of individuals with permits...
    This is CLEARLY UNLAWFUL in accordance with NRS 202.3662, which states:


    NRS 202.3662 Confidentiality of information about applicant for permit and permittee.

    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.3665 and 239.0115:

    (a) An application for a permit, and all information contained within that application; and

    (b) All information provided to a sheriff or obtained by a sheriff in the course of his investigation of an applicant,

    are confidential.

    2. Any records regarding an applicant or permittee may be released to a law enforcement agency for the purpose of conducting an investigation or prosecution.

    3. Statistical abstracts of data compiled by a sheriff regarding permits applied for or issued pursuant to NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, including, but not limited to, the number of applications received and permits issued, may be released to any person.

    (Added to NRS by 1997, 1174; A 1999, 851; 2007, 2077)
    I spoke with Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini. He confirmed that he does, indeed, release CCW permittees' names to the general public. He further indicated he has no plans to change his policy.

    I am drafting aformal letter ... I submit that is a flagrant violation of NRS 202.3662 and the good sheriff must be held accountable.

    And I certainly HIGHLY encourage EVERYONE to write/call Sheriff Pierini, urging him to reconsider and comply with Nevada law.

    The Douglas County Sheriff's website is http://www.douglascountynv.gov/sites/so/
    Telephone (775) 782-9900.

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    varminter22 wrote:
    I spoke with Douglas County Sheriffs Ron Pierini. He confirmed that he does, indeed, release CCW permittees' names to the general public. He further indicated he has no plans to change his policy.
    Try to get this in writing if you can.

    We are a country governed by rule of law, not rule of men. No one is above the law, most especially those entrusted to enforce it.

    The following link is to a list of information the government of Nevada may not disclose to the public pursuant to the Open Records Law (NRS 239), listing the statutes protecting each category of said confidential information.

    You may find this information useful.

    http://web.mac.com/nevadapress/nevad..._2_Access.html

    Absent from the list is NRS 202.3662 that you cited, but the web site is by no means authoritative.

    Unfortunately there is this little gem of a loophole:

    NRS 239.012
    Immunity for good faith disclosure or refusal to disclose information.

    A public officer or employee who acts in good faith in disclosing or refusing to disclose information and his employer are immune from liability for damages, either to the requester or to the person whom the information concerns.
    The legal definition of Good Faith is:

    GOOD FAITH - Honestly and without deception. An agreement might be declared invalid if one of the parties entered with the intention of defrauded the other.

    The duty of each party to an agreement (and all officers, employees, or agents of each party) to act in a fair and equitable manner toward each other so as to guarantee each party freedom from coercion, intimidation, or threats of coercion or intimidation from the other.

    IANAL so I'm not even going to try to solve this equation. But I think it can be solved -- am I defrauded by submitting an application thinking the sheriff will comply with the law and keep my information confidential, while unknowingly to me, the sheriff has every intention of violating the law?

    Tim

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    I'm not sure why we need it in writing. The sheriff confirmed he DOES release names of CCW permittees.

    However, I DO plan to write a letter!

    In ref to the link you provided, I wouldn't put much faith in it; it appears to be woefully out of date:
    Records Closed By Statutes

    The following list is not comprehensive, and it only indicates some statutes which may claim to close records or parts of records *7. The list is to alert you to a potential problem if you are looking in a particular area. If you think you may have a problem, consult counsel before you request the records.


    *7 For a complete list, see, Hardesty, Tapping Officials' Secrets, Reporters Committee For Freedom of The Press (1989).
    1989??? In 1989, NV didn't have a "shall issue" permit system. NRS 202 did not exisit. Nope, I wouldn't put much faith in your reference.

    The current NRS 239.010 (found here:http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-239.html) seems pretty clear:
    NRS 239.010 Public books and public records open to inspection; confidential information in public books and records; copyrighted books and records; copies to be provided in medium requested.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 3, all public books and public records of a governmental entity, the contents of which are not otherwise declared by law to be confidential, must be open at all times during office hours to inspection by any person, and may be fully copied or an abstract or memorandum may be prepared from those public books and public records. Any such copies, abstracts or memoranda may be used to supply the general public with copies, abstracts or memoranda of the records or may be used in any other way to the advantage of the governmental entity or of the general public. This section does not supersede or in any manner affect the federal laws governing copyrights or enlarge, diminish or affect in any other manner the rights of a person in any written book or record which is copyrighted pursuant to federal law.

    2. A governmental entity may not reject a book or record which is copyrighted solely because it is copyrighted.

    3. A governmental entity that has legal custody or control of a public book or record shall not deny a request made pursuant to subsection 1 to inspect or copy a public book or record on the basis that the requested public book or record contains information that is confidential if the governmental entity can redact, delete, conceal or separate the confidential information from the information included in the public book or record that is not otherwise confidential.

    4. A person may request a copy of a public record in any medium in which the public record is readily available. An officer, employee or agent of a governmental entity who has legal custody or control of a public record shall not refuse to provide a copy of that public record in a readily available medium because he has already prepared or would prefer to provide the copy in a different medium.

    [1:149:1911; RL § 3232; NCL § 5620]—(NRS A 1963, 26; 1965, 69; 1993, 1230, 2307, 2623; 1995, 503, 716; 1997, 2386; 1999, 1210; 2007, 2062)
    See para 1 above: "... the contents of which are not otherwise declared by law to be confidential ..." Since NRS 202.3662 says permittee info IS CONFIDENTIAL, this doesn't seem to be an issue at all.

    See para 3 above: "... redact, delete, conceal or separate the confidential information ..." If repeat IF the sheriff were to delete the permittee's name, address, etc, that would be fine as he would NOT be divulging confidential information. The requester would simply have a paper indicating a permit was issued, but NO name, address, etc, info.

    I simply see NO wiggle room for the sheriff. But then, I'm not an attorney.

    I do hope to press this all the way. The way I read the law, and the way MANY others including some NV District Attorneys read the law, sheriffs simply cannot disclose the names, etc of CCW permittees.

    In view of Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini's current, unlawful "policy", the criminal element COULD obtain a list of ALL permittees in Douglas County and then case the homes of permittees, determine when no one is home and commence burglarizing. Or they could perform a sneak attack upon a permittee.

    The very nature of a CCW is that the citizen wishes his possession to remain confidential. There is NO public benefit to be gained by violating NRS 202.3662. If fact, the release of info increases the likelihood of citizen property loss and personal injury.

    And it also places permittees in the same category of sex offenders! Anyone can request and receive info on convicted sex offenders.

    I want Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini to cease and desist.

  4. #4
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    Varminter, I agree with you that this is a clear violation of Nevada law. Let me know when you have a draft of a letter and I'll also work on a draft. I would guess that a copy needs to go to the Attorney Generals office in Carson City as well as to this sheriff. The AG's office in Nevada really seems to be the place to go when local officials think they can get around the law. Keep me posted as I'm in Carson City and work in Douglas county.

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    varminter22 wrote:
    I'm not sure why we need it in writing. The sheriff confirmed he DOES release names of CCW permittees.

    However, I DO plan to write a letter!

    In ref to the link you provided, I wouldn't put much faith in it; it appears to be woefully out of date

    <snip>

    I do hope to press this all the way. The way I read the law, and the way MANY others including some NV District Attorneys read the law, sheriffs simply cannot disclose the names, etc of CCW permittees.

    <snip>

    In view of Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini's current, unlawful "policy", the criminal element COULD obtain a list of ALL permittees in Douglas County and then case the homes of permittees, determine when no one is home and commence burglarizing. Or they could perform a sneak attack upon a permittee.

    <snip>

    I want Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini to cease and desist.
    Sorry man, didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing. I'm on your side and think this guy is clearly breaking the law.

    That first link I posted...I guess I didn't see the 1989 part, but aside from the missing NRS 202 reference, it's a useful reference for other purposes if you ever want to see what the government can claim is confidential, etc.

    I posted the "current" text of NRS 239.012 taken straight from the leg website. Did you notice how it conveniently exempts the employee and employer from any liability? The question is, how is "Good faith" interpreted? I would think it meant the release of confidential information by an employee, who did not know the information was confidential, acts in good faith by releasing the requested information.

    I think the fact that you personally talked to the sheriff and pointed out that he's breaking the law, and that he replied he has no intention of changing his policy reflects he is NOT acting in good faith. Clearly he is well aware that he is breaking the law, but doesn't care.

    I don't know who you would report his criminal behavior to. I found the following on Nevada Highway Patrol web site:

    http://dps.nv.gov/id/index.shtml

    The detectives assigned to the Investigation Division have training and specialize in clandestine lab enforcement, crime scene investigation, drug enforcement, polygraph services, police integrity investigations, executive protection, computer forensics and violent crimes against persons.
    It seems their primary focus is drugs, but might they be the right folks to ask to help stop this illegal activity?

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    What do you think of this letter:

    Good evening Chief Jackson-

    I wanted to email you to ask for your assistance. If your department does not have the authority or jurisdiction, please kindly refer me to the correct agency.

    As you may know, Nevada Concealed Weapons permits are governed pursuant to NRS 202.3653 - 202.369. I am contacting you specifically regarding a flagrant violation of NRS 202.3662. This code section specifies that the application, the information contained on the application, and any information learned during the Sheriff's investigation is considered confidential. The only exception is that the information may released to any law enforcement agency for the purpose of conducting an investigation, or prosecution. The statute also authorizes compiling and releasing statistics, such as number of applications received and number of permits issued.

    I am asking for your assistance with insuring the police integrity in Douglas County, NV. Sheriff Ron Pierini routinely releases the names of every CCW permit holder to the general public, in clear violation of NRS 202.3662, which again specifies that this information is considered confidential.

    Giving him the benefit of the doubt, Sheriff Pierini has been contacted personally to point out to him that his policy is a violation of Nevada Law. His response confirmed his policy is to release the names of all CCW permit holders, and that he has no plans to change his policy, despite the fact that state law forbids him from doing so.

    No one is above the law, but most especially those entrusted to enforce it. If Sheriff Pierini is free to set policies which violate the law, I can only imagine the confusion in the ranks below him. The police officers must obey their boss, but they must also enforce the law. When there is a conflict, what do they do? Sheriff Pierini is not free to enact policies that violate the law and your assistance in helping him understand this would be appreciated.

    Thank you for your time,

    Tim XXX
    I will send it under my name if you guys don't mind critiquing it first.

    Tim

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    timf343 wrote:
    What do you think of this letter:

    Good evening Chief Jackson-

    I wanted to email you to ask for your assistance. If your department does not have the authority or jurisdiction, please kindly refer me to the correct agency.

    As you may know, Nevada Concealed Weapons permits are governed pursuant to NRS 202.3653 - 202.369. I am contacting you specifically regarding a flagrant violation of NRS 202.3662. This code section specifies that the application, the information contained on the application, and any information learned during the Sheriff's investigation is considered confidential. The only exception is that the information may released to any law enforcement agency for the purpose of conducting an investigation, or prosecution. The statute also authorizes compiling and releasing statistics, such as number of applications received and number of permits issued.

    I am asking for your assistance with insuring the police integrity in Douglas County, NV. Sheriff Ron Pierini routinely releases the names of every CCW permit holder to the general public, in clear violation of NRS 202.3662, which again specifies that this information is considered confidential.

    Giving him the benefit of the doubt, Sheriff Pierini has been contacted personally to point out to him that his policy is a violation of Nevada Law. His response confirmed his policy is to release the names of all CCW permit holders, and that he has no plans to change his policy, despite the fact that state law forbids him from doing so.

    No one is above the law, but most especially those entrusted to enforce it. If Sheriff Pierini is free to set policies which violate the law, I can only imagine the confusion in the ranks below him. The police officers must obey their boss, but they must also enforce the law. When there is a conflict, what do they do? Sheriff Pierini is not free to enact policies that violate the law and your assistance in helping him understand this would be appreciated.

    Thank you for your time,

    Tim XXX
    I will send it under my name if you guys don't mind critiquing it first.

    Tim
    Good letter, Tim, but you're sending it to the wrong person. This needs to go to the AG's office in Carson City and here is the link you'll need to contact them:

    http://ag.state.nv.us/integrity/integrity.htm

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    timf343 wrote:
    What do you think of this letter:

    Good evening Chief Jackson-

    I wanted to email you to ask for your assistance. If your department does not have the authority or jurisdiction, please kindly refer me to the correct agency.

    As you may know, Nevada Concealed Weapons permits are governed pursuant to NRS 202.3653 - 202.369. I am contacting you specifically regarding a flagrant violation of NRS 202.3662. This code section specifies that the application, the information contained on the application, and any information learned during the Sheriff's investigation is considered confidential. The only exception is that the information may released to any law enforcement agency for the purpose of conducting an investigation, or prosecution. The statute also authorizes compiling and releasing statistics, such as number of applications received and number of permits issued.

    I am asking for your assistance with insuring the police integrity in Douglas County, NV. Sheriff Ron Pierini routinely releases the names of every CCW permit holder to the general public, in clear violation of NRS 202.3662, which again specifies that this information is considered confidential.

    Giving him the benefit of the doubt, Sheriff Pierini has been contacted personally to point out to him that his policy is a violation of Nevada Law. His response confirmed his policy is to release the names of all CCW permit holders, and that he has no plans to change his policy, despite the fact that state law forbids him from doing so.

    No one is above the law, but most especially those entrusted to enforce it. If Sheriff Pierini is free to set policies which violate the law, I can only imagine the confusion in the ranks below him. The police officers must obey their boss, but they must also enforce the law. When there is a conflict, what do they do? Sheriff Pierini is not free to enact policies that violate the law and your assistance in helping him understand this would be appreciated.

    Thank you for your time,

    Tim XXX
    I will send it under my name if you guys don't mind critiquing it first.

    Tim
    I really like your draft letter.

    For whom does Chief Jackson work? NHP? I missed that somehow.

    If the NHP does "police integrity investigations" perhaps this is a good place to send the letter. Personally, I would consider sending "copy to":

    Governor Jim Gibbons
    State Capitol
    101 N Carson St
    Carson City NV 89701


    Senator Mike McGinness
    770 Wildes Rd
    FallonNV 89406-7843


    Assemblyman James Settelmeyer
    770 Hwy 395 N
    Gardnerville NV 89410

    Assemblyman Pete Goicoechea
    P O Box 97
    EurekaNV 89316-0097


    Douglas County Commissioners
    P O Box 218
    Minden NV 89423


    District Attorney Mark Jackson
    P O Box 218
    Minden NV 89423


    Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini
    P O Box 218
    Minden NV 89423


    And also the NRA! AG too maybe.

    In other words, I want the WORLD to know!

    Maybe this isn't the best approach? Comments appreciated.


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    Send away! :celebrate

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    The intent of NV CC law (among other things) was to provide a method for Residents to arm themselves in a discreet manner. "Discreet Manner" could mean a number of things including the Right to Privacy. By releasing names of CC holders we provide a safe and simple method by which bad guys are provided with an instant "shopping list" of gun owners.

    The stated intent of all gun lawsis to keep guns out of the hands of persons who should not have them. Why then would any Public Officialgo contrary to the intent of the law and provide a "shopping list" for crooks?

    Gov Gibbons certainly had his rights violated.Jim qualified 7 out of 9 handguns, now we know, andhe has some shotguns too. An open invitation to a home invasion if I ever saw one. The fact that some laws may have been side stepped regardingGov Gibbons and his CC permit is no excuse to further compound the situation by splashing the fact in the news.

    In the case of the Douglas County Sheriff, I think he may wish to direct his attention to the comments made by the Washoe DA. Methinks a policy change is forthcoming.

    That's the view from my saddle.



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    This story posted today about the lack of consistency in various counties re: confidentiality of open carry apps and permits:


    http://www.ktnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8160111

    Nevada governor's gun case puts attention on confidentiality law
    Associated Press - April 13, 2008 6:55 PM ET

    RENO (AP) - Washoe County Sheriff Mike Haley's refusal to discuss the flawed handling of Gov. Gibbons' concealed weapons permit is focusing attention on a state confidentiality law that is interpreted differently from county to county.

    Last week, the Reno Gazette-Journal reported that Gibbons temporarily surrendered his permit over the winter after it was found he hadn't completed the legally required training for each of his nine handguns.

    Gibbons later completed the necessary training and and was issued a proper permit.

    Under Nevada law, "an application for a permit and all information contained within that application" is confidential.

    In a story that ran on its Web site Sunday, the Gazette-Journal reported that Haley and some other Nevada sheriffs interpret that to mean the public doesn't have the right to know whether an individual has a concealed weapon permit.

    Sheriffs in Clark, Humboldt and Pershing counties also will not disclose whether an individual has a permit. But sheriffs in Elko, Douglas, White Pine and Lincoln counties will make such disclosures.

    Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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    ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
    Last edited by CowboyKen; 08-14-2010 at 05:51 PM.

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    This is quite disconcerting.

    More letters to write.

    We MUST get this fixed in the 2009 legislative session. AND/OR get some legal action sooner.

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    Yes, this is going to have to be clarified. In the meantime, this is another very good reason to open carry. I'd encourage the local crowd to leave comments as well, although the article has been buried fairly deep at the online site. I left a comment and I see one other gun owner did so as well.

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    In ref to the article statement:
    Sheriffs in Elko, Douglas, White Pine and Lincoln counties disclose whether an individual has a permit. Sheriffs in Clark, Humboldt and Pershing counties do not.
    The ABOVE has been REFUTED.

    All (except DOUGLAS Co) sheriffs have stated they do not/will not release permittees names. Apparently the reporter got it wrong.

    It is entirely possible that ONLY Douglas Co Sheriff Ron Pierini violates NRS 202.3662 by releasing permittee names to the public.

    Am sure there will be more to come on this issue.

  16. #16
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    This letter sent this evening, April 15, 2008:

    [/b]
    Stillwater Firearms Association[/b][/b]
    P. O. Box 665[/b]
    Fallon NV
    [/b]
    89407[/b]
    April 15, 2008


    Mr Frank Adams

    Executive Director, Nevada Sheriffs

    and Chiefs Association

    P O Box 3247

    Mesquite NV 89024


    Subj: CONFIDENTIALITY OF NEVADA CCW PERMIT HOLDERS’ INFORMATION – REQUEST DOUGLAS COUNTY SHERIFF RON PIERINI IMMEDIATELY CEASE AND DESIST


    Dear Mr Adams,


    Does the Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association support a sheriff that intentionally and knowingly violates Nevada state law (NRS 202.3662) bydisclosing CCW permit holders’ confidential information to the general public and/or media?


    The Reno Gazette Journal (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080409/NEWS04/804090435/0/NEWS01) reports:

    Quote
    In Douglas County, the sheriff's office releases the names of individuals with permits...
    Unquote

    In a telephone conversation with me on April 10, 2008, Sheriff Pierini confirmed that he does, indeed, release CCW permittees’ names to the general public. He further indicated he has no plans to change his policy.


    It is absolutely clear that Nevada law prohibits the release of CCW permit holders’ information. Nevada Revised Statute 202.3662 states:

    Quote
    NRS 202.3662 Confidentiality of information about applicant for permit and permittee.

    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and
    NRS 202.3665 and 239.0115:

    (a) An application for a permit, and all information contained within that application; and

    (b) All information provided to a sheriff or obtained by a sheriff in the course of his investigation of an applicant, are confidential.

    2. Any records regarding an applicant or permittee may be released to a law enforcement agency for the purpose of conducting an investigation or prosecution.

    3. Statistical abstracts of data compiled by a sheriff regarding permits applied for or issued pursuant to
    NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, including, but not limited to, the number of applications received and permits issued, may be released to any person.

    (Added to NRS by 1997, 1174; A
    1999, 851; 2007, 2077)

    Unquote

    It is further noted that Sheriff Pierini spoke of “open record” laws, presumably NRS 239.010 which states:


    Quote
    … all public books and public records of a governmental entity, the contents of which are not otherwise declared by law to be confidential, must be open at all times …
    Unquote

    Nevada Revised Statutes are clear. The application and all information contained therein is confidential and that would include the applicants/permittees names. The general rule of interpretation of statutes is: When there is a general statute and a specific statute, the more specific statue controls/prevails. Granting of the application/permit would not eliminate the requirement of this law.


    Again, in view of NRS 239.010 and NRS 202.3662, it is clear Sheriff Pierini is in direct violation of Nevada law.



    When a Nevada sheriff discloses permittee names, he is not only violating NRS 202.3662, but also placing the permittee and his family at risk of personal danger; the criminal element can simply obtain names and subsequently burglarize permittees’ homes. This practice also increases the probability of a confrontation between a permittee, his spouse, and his children, and an intruder. The very nature of a CCW is that the citizen wishes his possession to remain confidential. There is no public benefit to be gained by violating the NRS. In fact, the release of the information most definitely increases the chances of property loss and personal injury.



    Stillwater Firearms Association most urgently requests Sheriff Pierini immediately cease and desist from releasing CCW permittees names and addresses. Intentionally placing law-abiding citizens in danger for absolutely no reason is inexcusable. With members in 10 Nevada counties (including Douglas County), SFA and untold numbers of law-abiding citizens anxiously await your expedited response in this most urgent matter. Please respond as soon as possible, with copies to all listed below.



    Sincerely,



    J. L. Rhodes



    Copies to:



    Governor Jim Gibbons

    State Capitol
    101 N Carson St
    Carson City NV 89701




    Senator Mike McGinness

    770 Wildes Rd
    FallonNV 89406-7843




    Assemblyman James Settelmeyer

    770 Hwy 395 N

    Gardnerville NV 89410



    Assemblyman Pete Goicoechea

    P O Box 97
    EurekaNV 89316-0097




    Douglas County Commissioners

    P O Box 218
    Minden NV 89423




    District Attorney Mark Jackson

    P O Box 218
    Minden NV 89423


    Ms Carrie Herbertson

    NRA ILA State & Local Affairs Division

    555 Capitol Mall, Suite 625

    Sacramento CA 95814



    National Rifle Association of America
    11250 Waples Mill Road
    Fairfax VA 22030




    Gun Owners of America

    8001 Forbes Pl Suite 102
    Springfield VA 22151




    Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
    Liberty Park
    12500 N.E. Tenth Place
    Bellevue WA 98005


    Second Amendment Foundation
    James Madison Building
    12500 N.E. Tenth Place
    Bellevue WA 98005


    Douglas County Sheriff Ron Pierini
    P O Box 218
    Minden NV 89423

    [/b]Please forgive the mismatched font, spacing, etc. Not sure how that happened during the cut/paste. But the text is accurate.

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    Good news! Douglas County DA Mark Jackson has been enlightened and now understands the law and the legislative intent. DA Jackson and Sheriff Pierini have stated they will no longer violate NRS 202.3662 - they will now keep CCW permittee names/info CONFIDENTIAL.

    It seems this generated quite a lot of correspondence and email. Many thanks to everyone that took the time to write. THIS DOES make a difference!

    I received the following email today:
    Douglas County DA Mark Jackson has changed his position. Using the references to the applicable NRS and the legislative history provided to him,he has concluded that his original position that the CCW applications and NOT the permits, was incorrect.

    He stated that he will be informing the Douglas County Sheriff that both documents are Confidential.

    UnderSheriff Paul Howell also just called me as I was typing this, to tell me the same news. He asks that folks spread the word to please stop calling and emailing. His inbox is full. Ha ha.

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    SWEET! A shame it took so many calls and emails to get the police to obey the law. But that's OK, mission accomplished.

    By the way, I emailed the Attorney General days ago but have not received a reply...

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    varminter22,

    You da MAN on this one! Now I owe you a drink for getting this done and I owe Tim one for Boulder City. Thank you.

    Ken

  20. #20
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    Join Date
    May 2007
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    , ,
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    524

    Post imported post

    By the way guys, it might be nice to make sure that these guys know about the success you have been having on these issues and see if there are things we should coordinate efforts on.

    http://art1sec11.blogspot.com/

    Maybe even to work together on the shooting park issue.

    Ken

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Carson City, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    344

    Post imported post

    Yes! Everybody pitches in and we all win! Thanks for leading the charge.

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