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Thread: Cheeseburger in Paradise

  1. #1
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    I had my first negative encounter yesterday at Cheeseburger in Paradise. I guess I should have known better seeing how the chain is owned by Jimmy Buffet, but I was on the road and it was convenient, I didn't have time to research first. Anyway, here's how it went down:

    Stopped in Charlottesville with my wife, newborn and mother, the hostess seated us with no problems. Shortly after we were seated the manager came up:

    Manager: "Law Enforcement?"
    Me: "No sir."
    Manager: "Well Virginia hasn't passed the law allowing you to carry a gun in a resteraunt that sells alcohol."
    Me: "No, the law says that you cannot carry a gun concealed in a resteraunt that sells alcohol."
    Manager: "The law says you can't carry here."
    Me: "No sir, the law says that the gun cannot be concealed, it is perfectly legal to carry openly."
    Manager: "When did they pass that law?"
    Me: "There is no law, it is not restricted so it is permitted."
    Manager: "Well I have the right to refuse service to anyone, so I am going to refuse service to you unless you put your gun in the car."
    Me: "Alright then."


    We left and went to Chilli's.

    I don't know for sure if Chilli's had a problem because I don't think anyone noticed.

    Some people amaze me with their premise that he law has to grand permission to do something for it to be legal.


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    asforme wrote:
    I guess I should have known better seeing how the chain is owned by Jimmy Buffet...
    Actually, Cheesburger in Paradise is owned by OSI Restaurant Partners -- Outback Steakhouse.
    ---

  3. #3
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    I know that some people have had better luck at the one in Fredericksburg.

    At the risk of being flamed, I have a theory that 90% of restaurant owners wouldn't allow carry in their restaurant. The corollary is 99% of people are either too oblivious to their surroundings to notice when someone is carrying, or too brainwashed to think that anyone besides a cop would carry a gun on the outside of his pants.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    asforme wrote:
    Some people amaze me with their premise that he law has to grand permission to do something for it to be legal.
    Yeah, what is the mindset of a person that reflexivly assumes that position? I'd say it's immaturity that never got out of mom and dad's nest. It's very child-like.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    dixiehacker wrote:
    I know that some people have had better luck at the one in Fredericksburg.

    At the risk of being flamed, I have a theory that 90% of restaurant owners wouldn't allow carry in their restaurant. The corollary is 99% of people are either too oblivious to their surroundings to notice when someone is carrying, or too brainwashed to think that anyone besides a cop would carry a gun on the outside of his pants.
    Possibly, but I would think it would be a complete cost verses benifit calculation on their part. How many customers am I loosing if I allow, how many if I forbid carry? I'd say it's the rare fruit cake that would walk out of a restaurant because he saw someone OCing.

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    I don't want to be burned for using someone elses words without giving them due credit, but I just cant remember who on OCDO said it, but here goes.... "Laws are made to tell you what you cant do, not what you can do" or something close to that effect. but point is, if theres no law saying you cant, go ape sheit

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    This story is almost word for word what happened to me a while at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Fredericksburg. Basically, ask me why I have a gun, tell me that it is illegal. Next, I tell him it is not illegal, OC vs. CC, etc. Tells me then it's illegal here. I leave, get looked at funny, then went and CCed at the Panera.

  8. #8
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    dixiehacker wrote:
    I know that some people have had better luck at the one in Fredericksburg.

    At the risk of being flamed, I have a theory that 90% of restaurant owners wouldn't allow carry in their restaurant. The corollary is 99% of people are either too oblivious to their surroundings to notice when someone is carrying, or too brainwashed to think that anyone besides a cop would carry a gun on the outside of his pants.
    Possibly, but I would think it would be a complete cost verses benifit calculation on their part. How many customers am I loosing if I allow, how many if I forbid carry? I'd say it's the rare fruit cake that would walk out of a restaurant because he saw someone OCing.
    I tend to think that the fruit cake, would probably be too stupid to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the person carrying is a mere citizen.

    Anti gun people really are clueless some times. I have met someone after hunting once, and she asked me if I had a gun in the car. As if I would drive 30 miles home and 30 miles back, just for the principle of not having a gun in the car.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    I think this is a case of a proprietor who has registered some hoo haa in the news about the gov. vetoing a bill. The specifics are irrelevant to this person, and this person, not knowing more than the hoo haa he has absorbed refuses to believe a non uniformed person on the law.

    Although I've yet to run into such a proprietor, I carry the yellow VCDL cards as a just in case. I would have encouraged the shop keep to dig a little deeper the next time he makes an opinion on something he really isn't fully up on and leave him with the card. Maybe even include my business card if I felt he would make the effort to investigate the detail, in case he wanted to contact me on his sorrow for my loss of business.

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    It's been a few years since I was there, but it looks like the manager didn't take time to read all the details of the news articles recently. We met with family after a long trip to pick up the dog they had been watching for us. We didn't hear a peep from anyone while we were there (4 adults, 2 kids, and an infant). I know the greeters noticed as I kept walking past them to check on the dog in the car and I was seated at the head of the table (strong side toward entrance).

    Sorry to hear about your negative experience...

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    asforme wrote:
    I had my first negative encounter yesterday at Cheeseburger in Paradise. I guess I should have known better seeing how the chain is owned by Jimmy Buffet, but I was on the road and it was convenient, I didn't have time to research first. Anyway, here's how it went down:

    Stopped in Charlottesville with my wife, newborn and mother, the hostess seated us with no problems. Shortly after we were seated the manager came up:

    Manager: "Law Enforcement?"
    Me: "No sir."
    Manager: "Well Virginia hasn't passed the law allowing you to carry a gun in a resteraunt that sells alcohol."
    Me: "No, the law says that you cannot carry a gun concealed in a resteraunt that sells alcohol."
    Manager: "The law says you can't carry here."
    Me: "No sir, the law says that the gun cannot be concealed, it is perfectly legal to carry openly."
    Manager: "When did they pass that law?"
    Me: "There is no law, it is not restricted so it is permitted."
    Manager: "Well I have the right to refuse service to anyone, so I am going to refuse service to you unless you put your gun in the car."
    Me: "Alright then."


    We left and went to Chilli's.

    My family wasn't interested in being kicked out of another restaurant so I carried my baby carrier on my strong side and sat in a booth to avoid trouble.

    Some people amaze me with their premise that he law has to grand permission to do something for it to be legal.
    Believe me they did you a wonderful favor ! The food there SUCKS.

    You should write them a thank you letter instead of a complaint letter. I went there ONE time and wish they had thrown me out or had me arrested. It would have been better then eating there.

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    Believe me they did you a wonderful favor ! The food there SUCKS.

    You should write them a thank you letter instead of a complaint letter. I went there ONE time and wish they had thrown me out or had me arrested. It would have been better then eating there.
    You should try their onion strings if you think they have bad food.

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    Fuddruckers is an upscale burgerchain with good beef and superb shakes. I have never had a problem carrying there.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I've been to the CIB in Fredericksburg and OC without issues. Like what was said, the food isn't the greatest so you didn't miss much. Call up their corporate office and see what their stance is. It was probably just a misinformed manager of the current laws. I've been to the CIB in Woodbridge, but did not carry as I was there for a friends B-day and was planning on drinking a few frothy ones so I didn't have a chance to check their OC awareness there. Sounds like you handled the situation perfectly though.

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    asforme wrote:
    Manager: "Law Enforcement?"
    Me: "No sir."
    Manager: "Well Virginia hasn't passed the law allowing you to carry a gun in a resteraunt that sells alcohol."
    Me: "No, the law says that you cannot carry a gun concealed in a resteraunt that sells alcohol."
    Manager: "The law says you can't carry here."
    Me: "No sir, the law says that the gun cannot be concealed, it is perfectly legal to carry openly."
    Manager: "When did they pass that law?"
    Me: "There is no law, it is not restricted so it is permitted."
    Manager: "Well I have the right to refuse service to anyone, so I am going to refuse service to you unless you put your gun in the car."
    Me: "Alright then."


    It burns me when people come across all snobby and tell you something that is horribly incorrect and pawn it off as fact. Nice andprofessional establishment that is... Question, harass, and belittlethe customers. :X
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Hmm... that's funny.

    I ate there a couple of weeks ago and open-carried. I did sit with my strong side to the wall though, but was openly carrying the whole time I was there and not one word was said. Perhaps I was just overlooked.

    Oh well, I won't be eating there again.

    Side note though, the Bonefish Grill just north of Charlottesville is pretty good I think. I ate in there and openly carried a couple of times. Even had the manager come over and talk with us and I KNOW he saw it and other customers did too, but was very pleasant and cordial. They're still owned by the same chain, but the manager there (at least at the time, don't know if he's still there, it's been over a year since I last ate there) seemed fine with it.

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    I have been away from my computer all weekend, but thanks for the replies.

    I had been there before I started OC'ing and actually enjoyed the food. I haven't contacted the coorperate office yet, because I know people on these forums sometimes have connections to higher-ups. I guess if no one speaks up I'll just use their customer contact form.

    I would have possibly put the gun away and returned to discuss the issue with the manager further, but we were on our way to nova from Lynchburg and my family wasnt in the mood.

    VCDL specifically only mentions the Outback in fairfax being unfriendly, does that mean that OSI and Outback in general do not have a problem? In that case I may have some hope contacting coorperate. Not that I will have an opportunity to try again anyway, I am rarely anywhere near Charlotsville, and probably will look to stop somewhere outside the city next time I go to nova anyway.

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    Oooh Bonefish is a great restaurant! I haven't had an oppurtunity to OC at the Alexandria Kingstowne location yet, but glad there aren't issues in another chain. They make a really good Artic Char but it's not always on the menu. The crabcakes there are fantastic, all crab, no filler.

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    I am contacting CiP via their contact page on their website: http://www.cheeseburgerinparadise.com/contactus.asp

    Here's what I've said.

    On April 11, 2008 around 6:00 PM I was embarrassed to be refused service at your restaurant in Charlottesville, Virginia. The manager incorrectly accused me of violating state law and proceeded to ask me to leave.

    Please inform all of the managers of your Virginia restaurants that Virginia state law prohibits the concealed carry of a firearm, but does not address firearms carried openly. If you are unsure of the wording of the Virginia law please see this letter from the Director of the Law Enforcement Bureau. http://www.vcdl.org/letters/ABC_Letter.pdf

    Secondly I respect the rights of your business to prohibit firearms on your property, but I would like clarification as to your official policy regarding this issue. If it is, in fact, your policy that you do not allow firearms, I and many others who choose to carry a handgun for self-defense would appreciate it if you would make this policy clear in the form of an obvious sign near your entrance so that we can avoid entering your restaurant in the first place and save ourselves the time and embarrassment of being asked to leave.

    Thank you for your time and attention to this issue.

    I'll update with a response if I get one.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    asforme wrote:
    I am contacting CiP via their contact page on their website: http://www.cheeseburgerinparadise.com/contactus.asp

    Here's what I've said.
    On April 11, 2008 around 6:00 PM I was embarrassed to be refused service at your restaurant in Charlottesville, Virginia. The manager incorrectly accused me of violating state law and proceeded to ask me to leave.

    Please inform all of the managers of your Virginia restaurants that Virginia state law prohibits the concealed carry of a firearm, but does not address firearms carried openly. If you are unsure of the wording of the Virginia law please see this letter from the Director of the Law Enforcement Bureau. http://www.vcdl.org/letters/ABC_Letter.pdf

    Secondly I respect the rights of your business to prohibit firearms on your property, but I would like clarification as to your official policy regarding this issue. If it is, in fact, your policy that you do not allow firearms, I and many others who choose to carry a handgun for self-defense would appreciate it if you would make this policy clear in the form of an obvious sign near your entrance so that we can avoid entering your restaurant in the first place and save ourselves the time and embarrassment of being asked to leave.

    Thank you for your time and attention to this issue.
    I'll update with a response if I get one.
    Good letter, should have said "many, many others"

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    asforme wrote:
    I am contacting CiP via their contact page on their website: http://www.cheeseburgerinparadise.com/contactus.asp

    Here's what I've said.
    On April 11, 2008 around 6:00 PM I was embarrassed to be refused service at your restaurant in Charlottesville, Virginia. The manager incorrectly accused me of violating state law and proceeded to ask me to leave.

    Please inform all of the managers of your Virginia restaurants that Virginia state law prohibits the concealed carry of a firearm, but does not address firearms carried openly. If you are unsure of the wording of the Virginia law please see this letter from the Director of the Law Enforcement Bureau. http://www.vcdl.org/letters/ABC_Letter.pdf

    Secondly I respect the rights of your business to prohibit firearms on your property, but I would like clarification as to your official policy regarding this issue. If it is, in fact, your policy that you do not allow firearms, I and many others who choose to carry a handgun for self-defense would appreciate it if you would make this policy clear in the form of an obvious sign near your entrance so that we can avoid entering your restaurant in the first place and save ourselves the time and embarrassment of being asked to leave.

    Thank you for your time and attention to this issue.
    I'll update with a response if I get one.
    Good letter!

    I might suggest in the future you don't offer the option of posting a sign. Simply state that if it is their policy, you will inform your circle of acquaintances. You see, if they post a sign, they could say they have given constructive notice. If they don't post a sign, others can go in and ask for refunds if they're refused service. I'm all for hitting them in the pocketbook.

    Another good tactic is to get a group together and visit a competitor, then mail the receipt.

    Still, I'll be interested in hearing what they have to say. Never been there, never seen one, but I guess I probably won't now, either.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  22. #22
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    It's a personal preference. I would like to know that I am not welcome before I and my family sit down and start choosing what we want to eat. If it was just me, it wouldn't be a big deal, but I get my son settled down and find a good spot for his carrier, my wife settles in and stuffs the diaper bag under the table and then being told to get up and leave is just frustrating. However I tried to make it clear that a sign would hit them in the pocketbook because I and many others will not be going through any doors with a no firearms sign.

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    dixiehacker wrote:
    I know that some people have had better luck at the one in Fredericksburg.

    At the risk of being flamed, I have a theory that 90% of restaurant owners wouldn't allow carry in their restaurant. The corollary is 99% of people are either too oblivious to their surroundings to notice when someone is carrying, or too brainwashed to think that anyone besides a cop would carry a gun on the outside of his pants.
    Rubbish, I have yet to be asked to leave from a restaurant (knock on wood). On the contrary when asked about the weapon I answer politely back and have a very good discussion with a manager that MAY approach. I have at times asked if they want me to leave and they say -"NO, Please stay and enjoy the food"

    TJ

  24. #24
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    Good letter. However, I would have cited the estimated number of concealed carry permit holders and open carriers in VA and worded it as "so that I and the estimatedxnumber of concealed carriers and xnumber of open carriers can avoid the time and embarassment of patronizing your establishment". or something to that effect.

    Then, they can take those estimated numbers and multiply them by the average cost of a 1-person meal to figure out the minimum amount of money they would be losing... not including the money lost from those people NOT bringing their friends and family along with them.



    :P

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    dixiehacker wrote:
    I know that some people have had better luck at the one in Fredericksburg.

    At the risk of being flamed, I have a theory that 90% of restaurant owners wouldn't allow carry in their restaurant. The corollary is 99% of people are either too oblivious to their surroundings to notice when someone is carrying, or too brainwashed to think that anyone besides a cop would carry a gun on the outside of his pants.
    Rubbish, I have yet to be asked to leave from a restaurant (knock on wood). On the contrary when asked about the weapon I answer politely back and have a very good discussion with a manager that MAY approach. I have at times asked if they want me to leave and they say -"NO, Please stay and enjoy the food"

    TJ
    Well, I have been kicked out. When it happened I tried to be polite and explain the law, but it didn't work. Perhaps it is because I am younger.

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