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Thread: A clarification,please?

  1. #1
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    I have a Michigan CPL, and also sometimes open carry. I understand that in my own business, my store, I can OC anytime I want. Correct? So if I have a revolver in a belt holster, it is usually covered by my sport jacket, and I'm in my own store, is it okay if I take my jacket off and the gun shows?? Or if I'm at a work table and my jacket comes open and the gun shows?

    I think all of the above are okay, if I'm wrong please let me know. Thanks.

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    Yes you are perfectly legal in the manner you've suggested.

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    Thank you for the quick reply.

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    Slowalkintexan wrote:
    I have a Michigan CPL, and also sometimes open carry. I understand that in my own business, my store, I can OC anytime I want. Correct? So if I have a revolver in a belt holster, it is usually covered by my sport jacket, and I'm in my own store, is it okay if I take my jacket off and the gun shows?? Or if I'm at a work table and my jacket comes open and the gun shows?

    I think all of the above are okay, if I'm wrong please let me know. Thanks.

    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.

    Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length,

    or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or

    whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place

    of business or on other land possessed by the person.

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle

    operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the

    person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner

    inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a

    fine of not more than $2,500.00.

    History:
    1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;—CL 1948, 750.227;—Am. 1973, Act 206, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974;—Am. 1986, Act 8, Eff. July 1, 1986.

    Constitutionality:
    The double jeopardy protection against multiple punishment for the same offense is a restriction on a court’s ability to impose

    punishment in excess of that intended by the Legislature, not a limit on the Legislature’s power to define crime and fix punishment. People v. Sturgis, 427 Mich.

    392, 397 N.W.2d 783 (1986).
    Former law: See section 5 of Act 372 of 1927, being CL 1929, § 16753.

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    Slowalkintexan wrote:
    I have a Michigan CPL, and also sometimes open carry. I understand that in my own business, my store, I can OC anytime I want. Correct? So if I have a revolver in a belt holster, it is usually covered by my sport jacket, and I'm in my own store, is it okay if I take my jacket off and the gun shows?? Or if I'm at a work table and my jacket comes open and the gun shows?

    I think all of the above are okay, if I'm wrong please let me know. Thanks.
    You can carry openly outside your business as well. You can carry openly in all lawful areas. Local ordinances are illegal due to the 1990 preemption law. Se previous posts on this.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I recently came across this on the Michigan Reg Concealed Gun Owners site:
    Q: Now during the summer months etc. if you carry say a snubbie holstered in a "IWB" and the handle shows, is that legal or brandishing? A: Brandishing means to "display in a threatening manner." While it would probably be a defensible charge under the circumstances that you describe, it is not unimaginable that the situation could lead to criminal charges. Some (certainly not all) cops operate on the principle of "when in doubt, make the arrest." And some prosecutors don't support our CPL rights and are predisposed to "get guns off the street." Even if a charge of brandishing is not brought, many localities have ordinances prohibiting any conduct that is a "breach of the public peace and order," (or words to that effect). Perhaps of greater concern is the fact that an inadvertent slip which reveals all or part of a holstered gun could possibly lead to a dangerous "man with a gun" call to police. I have been on police ride-alongs and seen what happens when such a call comes over the radio. Every police officer within range of the radio call speeds to the scene in an effort to join in the fray. Driving at 100+ mph with lights and sirens going gets the adrenaline pumping. Once on the scene, the cops are generally highly agitated and pointing their loaded weapons at the individual who is the subject of the call, all the while shouting commands. Even if no arrest is made, and no charges filed, the scenario is dangerous and inconvenient for all concerned.

    Combine that with the practical issue that was best summed up by Ted Nugent who said that open carry "offers no tactical advantage," and your best bet is to get good leather, the right clothes

    I'm not quite sure what to make of this and how it applies to my original question.

    What do you think?



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    Slowalkintexan wrote:
    I recently came across this on the Michigan Reg Concealed Gun Owners site:
    Q: Now during the summer months etc. if you carry say a snubbie holstered in a "IWB" and the handle shows, is that legal or brandishing? A: Brandishing means to "display in a threatening manner." While it would probably be a defensible charge under the circumstances that you describe, it is not unimaginable that the situation could lead to criminal charges. Some (certainly not all) cops operate on the principle of "when in doubt, make the arrest." And some prosecutors don't support our CPL rights and are predisposed to "get guns off the street." Even if a charge of brandishing is not brought, many localities have ordinances prohibiting any conduct that is a "breach of the public peace and order," (or words to that effect). Perhaps of greater concern is the fact that an inadvertent slip which reveals all or part of a holstered gun could possibly lead to a dangerous "man with a gun" call to police. I have been on police ride-alongs and seen what happens when such a call comes over the radio. Every police officer within range of the radio call speeds to the scene in an effort to join in the fray. Driving at 100+ mph with lights and sirens going gets the adrenaline pumping. Once on the scene, the cops are generally highly agitated and pointing their loaded weapons at the individual who is the subject of the call, all the while shouting commands. Even if no arrest is made, and no charges filed, the scenario is dangerous and inconvenient for all concerned.

    Combine that with the practical issue that was best summed up by Ted Nugent who said that open carry "offers no tactical advantage," and your best bet is to get good leather, the right clothes

    I'm not quite sure what to make of this and how it applies to my original question.

    What do you think?

    All of the aboveis propaganda, speculation and opinion, all promoting an agenda. While anything can and sometimes does happen we have found that these fears are not realized. Local ordinances on firearm possession and modes of carry are illegal due to the 1990 preemption law. As for brandishing an AG opinion states that a gun in a holster is NOT brandishing. While an AG opinion is not law, most are taken seriously when preferring charges. As for disturbing the peace and other types of ordinances we have yet to find a case of a successful conviction while just openly carrying a handgun. If you ask your local police chief or prosecuting attorney they are most likely going to tell you it's illegal. But if you present them the facts about open carry they will often admit that there is nothing they can legally do to you.

    See below what we include on our information handout. The bottom line is you can be arrested for anything, but the chances of a charge being filed, let alone a conviction for lawful open carry of a firearm is fairly remote.

    Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm.
    [/b]

    ADVISORY NOTE; Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.

    BRANDISHING: Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: [/b]…In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the [/b]Michigan[/b] Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.[/b]


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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