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Thread: college carry in MI?

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    I saw the map on opencarry.org and MI the concealed carry is illegal but the open carry is "generally" legal. I don't know if anyone is familiar with Davenport but I go to school there. It is a private school so whatever their word is goes. But hypothetically, what if Davenport was a public school. What rights do I have to carry my hand gun to school. I always thought that schools where no gun zones. Could I open carry my gun to class? Or do I have to wait 6 months till I get my CCW and then I can open carry to class with my CCW to class? All the laws! So confusing!

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    pbnationrc wrote:
    I saw the map on opencarry.org and MI the concealed carry is illegal but the open carry is "generally" legal. I don't know if anyone is familiar with Davenport but I go to school there. It is a private school so whatever their word is goes. But hypothetically, what if Davenport was a public school.1) What rights do I have to carry my hand gun to school. I always thought that schools where no gun zones. 2) Could I open carry my gun to class? Or do I have to wait 6 months till I get my CCW and then 3) I can open carry to class with my CCW to class? All the laws! So confusing!


    pbnation, review this (28.425o) &this (750.234d)

    1) Check your school policy on weapons on campus. Chances are all weapons are prohibited on campus, to include parking lots/facilities and you may face suspension at best.

    2) No, if 1) applies to you, even with CPL.

    3) If you had a CPL and you were open carrying, yes you would be within the law, but, you would still be subject to 1).

    1), 2) & 3) apply if you are a student. If you were not a student you could CC with CPL and OC with or without CPL on campus, anywhere except classrooms and dorms.

    NOTE: Focus on MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o and the AG Opinions (7101 & 7113) on OCDO home page (click on state of michigan).


    Disclaimer: IANAL


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    springer where you answering my questions under the hypothetical statement that my school is a public school or private school? It makes a difference right? Like lets say Michigan State verses Davenport (my private school).

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    pbnationrc wrote:
    springer where you answering my questions under the hypothetical statement that my school is a public school or private school? It makes a difference right? Like lets say Michigan State verses Davenport (my private school).
    No, see below.

    Review this Thread with emphasis on preemption.

    In short, a local unit of government can not make/enforce their laws (ordinances) that are more stringent than the state...Private or Public.


    Local Units of Government = Counties, Cities, Villages and Colleges/Universities.






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    Ok, I think I got it. I am a student so I can open carry my pistol to school, if I had my CCW, as long as I don't do to class or a dorm. And as long as the school has no rules against weapons. Now lets pretend that I am NOT a student and then I can walk through campus open carrying, if I have a CCW, as long as I stay away from a classroom and the dorms. Public or private I have to adhered by the school's policy, unless I'm NOT a student. There is so much little stuff to remember!

    Now one final question to blow your brain! I have a library at my campus. But our library is considered a public library. You don't have to be student or enrolled at my college to come to the library. (I don't know if all colleges are like this but mine is.) Any joe blow can come in our library. After reading through the forums here, I understand that I can open carry in a public library. Would I get in trouble walking in my library open carrying without a CCW BUT a student at the college. Now the library is in the same building as my classes. As long as I don't mingle elsewhere with my 1911 on campus would this be legal? Go straight to the library and back to my jeep.

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    by the way, thanks for all the info springer. I never learned so much in one day, even at school! lol I hope to see you in Lansing on the 27th.

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    pbnationrc wrote:
    Ok, I think I got it. A) I am a student so I can open carry my pistol to school, if I had my CCW, as long as I don't do to class or a dorm. And as long as the school has no rules against weapons. Now lets pretend that B) I am NOT a student and then I can walk through campus open carrying, if I have a CCW, as long as I stay away from a classroom and the dorms. Public or private I have to adhered by the school's policy, unless I'm NOT a student. There is so much little stuff to remember!

    Now one final question to blow your brain! I have a library at my campus. But our library is considered a public library. You don't have to be student or enrolled at my college to come to the library. (I don't know if all colleges are like this but mine is.) Any joe blow can come in our library. After reading through the forums here, I understand that I can open carry in a public library. C) Would I get in trouble walking in my library open carrying without a CCW BUT a student at the college. Now the library is in the same building as my classes. As long as I don't mingle elsewhere with my 1911 on campus would this be legal? Go straight to the library and back to my jeep.

    In Michigan, you can OC without a CPL. The problem with OC'ing without CPL is the lawful transport of your pistol to and from...this is a whole other ballgame (Lawful Transport).

    A. Yes, you may OC your pistol to school...it's how you got it there to begin with i.e. from your place of residence to parking lot. If you were in a vehicle; car, truck, motorcycle, etc. to get it to your school, youwill need the CPL while in said vehicle.

    Yes, you may OC throughout your campus, anywhere, but classrooms and dorms and not be in violation of any firearm laws...Only your school policies. This action on your part will more than likely get you suspended if such a prohibition exists.

    B. Same as A. except, you do not have to worry about being suspended, only asked to leave. Again, OC on foot does not require a CPL.

    C. You are OC'ing-in this case-without a CPL, you would be within the law, but, that does not mean you will not be asked to leave, or worse, have LEO's called. I'm not sure in this case with the library being on campus property, if this would affect your student status. As far as, it being a public library, I do not think your status should be affected if you were to be asked to leave, and a complaint, etc. was filed, for example.

    pbnation, I strongly recommend you review the 3 pages of threads here on the Michigan forum. I did it the other night, just for kicks, and it only took about 1 hour or so. Many of your questions/concerns will most likely be answered.

    Disclaimer: IANAL


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    What about the federal law restricting guns from shcools (Pretty sure they only apply to K-12). Also, There is some debate on the three colleges that don't fall under state preemption (MSU, UM, and Wayne State).

    Untill this stuff gets cleared up, I wouldn't recommend OC at either of those three schools.

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    ghostrider wrote:
    What about the federal law restricting guns from shcools (Pretty sure they only apply to K-12). Also, There is some debate on the three colleges that don't fall under state preemption (MSU, UM, and Wayne State).

    Untill this stuff gets cleared up, I wouldn't recommend OC at either of those three schools.

    Yes.

    Yes.

    Agreed. Need a AG Opinion on that.

    I've done a great deal of research on those-also Venator.-and can not find anything substantial.


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    pbnationrc wrote:
    I saw the map on opencarry.org and MI the concealed carry is illegal but the open carry is "generally" legal. I don't know if anyone is familiar with Davenport but I go to school there. It is a private school so whatever their word is goes. But hypothetically, what if Davenport was a public school. What rights do I have to carry my hand gun to school. I always thought that schools where no gun zones. Could I open carry my gun to class? Or do I have to wait 6 months till I get my CCW and then I can open carry to class with my CCW to class? All the laws! So confusing!
    On public colleges the only place where concealed carry is illegal is in a classroom and a dorm. The school may have a POLICY on the possession of firearms by students and staff, whereas a violation could result in asuspension or termination. No firearm laws would be broken, unless you were in a classroom or a dorm. Non staff/students can have a firearm on campus (except concealed in a classroom or dorm). By classroom I believe they mean the actual classroom, so you could be in a building that has classrooms (in the Halls, break-room, study lounge, etc.), just not in the actual classroom. By dorm I believe they mean in any part of the dormitory building, not just in a dorm room (living quarters). Private colleges can prohibit firearms and you could be charged with trespassing if asked to leave and you do not.

    There is some question in regards to Wayne State, University of Michigan and Michigan State university because these schools are mentioned in the State constitution which may give them more rights than others schools. An AG opinion is needed, or some statute created to address this. Some legal professionals state that these three university have to follow state law and the preemption law. Others say no, they do have more power than other universities.

    My opinion is that if you were not a student or staff and you carried concealed you would not have a problem, same for driving through campus with a firearm in your vehicle. My advice is to call the University's legal representatives, those that prosecute campus violations and get their opinion or policyon enforcing any firearmprohibition in regards to campus ordinances. Again this only deals with the three universities funded via the State constitution.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:

    Local Units of Government = Counties, Cities, Villages and Colleges/Universities.




    Where did you get the above info? Can you cite the law that states that local Gov. also include public universities/Colleges? I want to add that to my reference page.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:

    Local Units of Government = Counties, Cities, Villages and Colleges/Universities.




    Where did you get the above info? Can you site the law that states that local Gov. also include public universities/Colleges? I want to add that to my reference page.
    I can't remember where I got the Colleges/Universities part. I think it had something to do with the "Big 3", WSU, UofM, and MSU,having an elected board. I willtry to find it.

    123.1101 Definitions.

    Sec. 1. As used in this act:

    (a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.

    (b) “Pistol” means that term as defined in section 222 of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being section 750.222 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    History:
    1990, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991.

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    Guys,

    Many believe that the state preemption law applies to the university ordinances, but they do not until we receive a court ruling declaring them so. I am currently trying to get legal representation to challenge their all-out bans, as this violates our state Constitution, but we have nothing to this point. Please review the following, from the MSP.

    Mr. French,

    The preemption law to which you're referring can be found in MCL 123.1102. That statute generally prohibits a local unit of government from regulating firearms. However, colleges and universities are not local units of government for the purposes of that statute; MCL 123.1101 defines "Local unit of government" as "a city, village, township, or county." Further, various statutesin Chapter 390 of the Michigan Compiled Laws grant state colleges and universities broad authority to enact ordinances (e.g., MCL 390.5 grants that power to the University of Michigan). Therefore, it appears that a university can enact and enforce an ordinance prohibiting a CPL holder from carrying a pistol on campus beyond classrooms and dormitories (see MCL 28.425o - the pistol free zone statute for CPL holders).

    There are a number of non-statutory preemption theories used by the courts. It is possible that a court or the Attorney General may hold that state law does preempt a university ordinance. However, at this time we're not aware of an opinion holding that way.

    Finally, it's worth noting that there's a difference between an ordinance and a policy. A university policy does not carry the force of law, and likely only applies to students, faculty, and employees. If you are a university employee, you are bound by the policy (MCL 28.425n allows employers to prohibit employee CPL holders from carrying at work).

    Sincerely,


    Sgt. Thomas Deasy
    Michigan State Police
    Executive Resource Section
    714 S. Harrison Rd.
    East Lansing, MI 48823
    (517) 336-6441

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    But these Universities reside within a city.

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    Bump to show off my Duracoat job:



    GO BUCKS!!!

    More Here:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum5/12101.html

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    I attend the Midland Davenport campus. Which campus do you attend?

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    reefteach wrote:
    Bump to show off my Duracoat job:



    GO BUCKS!!!

    More Here:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum5/12101.html
    You know that's offensive here in Michigan, not the gun, the O on the grip! [shadow=green]Go Spartans[/shadow]
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
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    Buckeye looks like a bullseye to a Spartan or a Wolverine!!!!

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