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Thread: Potomac Appalachian Trail Club organizing to block repeal of National park gun ban!

  1. #1
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    What is the deal with these people? Don't they know that gun carry in national Forests has worked out just fine?

    --

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jim Houck" <houckjw@bellsouth.net>
    To: "Greg Weaver" <Nchome@aol.com>; "Karen Worthington" <Skynomish@aol.com>;
    "Karl Kunkel" <KarlKunkel@aol.com>; "Steve Yonts" <EBeekeeper@aol.com>; "Susan
    Andreatta" <SusanQxyz@aol.com>; "P.A.T.H." <path-list@path-at.org>
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:11 PM
    Subject: [PATH] Fw: Guns in Parks and Refuges


    FYI
    if you want more, e-me & I'll send you the attachments.

    jim
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: ned kuhns
    To: Andrew Lewis (OCVT - RPC) ; Bill & Alice Hurlebaus (MRATC) ; Bob Giffin
    (RPC) ; Charlie Parry (RPC) ; Chris Bracknell (RPC - PATH) ; Donna Russell
    (ODATC - RPC) ; Dr. Diego Troya (OCVT - RPC) ; Eleanor Grasselli (RPC - MRATC)
    ; Jim Houck (RPC - PATH) ; Jim Hunt (ODATC - RPC) ; Ned Kuhns (RPC) ; Norm
    Sykora (NBATC - RPC) ; Roger Holnback (RPC & RATC) ; Sharon Ripley (RPC) ;
    Dave Olli (ODATC) ; David Helms (RPC) ; Mark Wenger (TATC)
    Cc: Bob Proudman (ATC) ; Alice Davis (VARO) ; Jack Noll (VA ATC) ; Kerry Wood
    (VARO) ; Laura Belleville (VARO)
    Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:39 PM
    Subject: FW: Guns in Parks and Refuges


    Virginia RPC and Club Presidents,

    The two messages below discuss an effort to overturn current
    regulations on possession of loaded firearms in National Parks and Wildlife
    Refuges. I wasn't aware of such an initiative so wanted to bring it to you
    and your club's attention. If you believe the current regulations regarding
    guns on the AT and in National Parks are correct, then you may want to make
    your support for them known to your Congressional senators and
    representatives. All the information you need is in the attachments, although
    Jo-Ann Davis' name continues to be listed, despite her death last year. In
    the event the subject is brought up at the SPM, I wanted you all to be aware.
    Thanks, Ned

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Bob Proudman [mailto:bproudman@appalachiantrail.org]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:44 AM
    To: Caroline Petti
    Subject: FW: Guns in Parks and Refuges

    This is a wonderful initiative by PATC. I am also sharing with ATC regional
    office staff and the other RPC chairs; the New England, Virginia and the Deep
    South RPCs all meet in the next several weeks.

    I particularly appreciate your sensitivity to hunters and fishermen in our
    ranks. They are our natural allies among the "hook & bullet" crowd. We don't
    oppose the lawful and traditional uses of our public lands for sports pursuits
    like hunting, just the election-year, 2nd amendment politicking and that seems
    a malady peculiar to the USA. Your list of parks and refuges is particularly
    sobering in those respects.


    Bob

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Caroline Petti [mailto:carolinepetti@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:38 PM
    Subject: Guns in Parks and Refuges

    The Potomac Appalachian Trail Club is writing to you and other trail
    enthusiasts throughout Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, and
    the District of Columbia to call your attention to an issue of serious
    concern.

    In recent months, the National Rifle Association has launched a
    concerted effort, aimed at both the U.S. Congress and the U.S. Department of
    the Interior, to overturn current regulations on possession of loaded firearms
    in National Parks and Wildlife Refuges. Current regulations generally
    prohibit individuals from possessing guns in parks and refuges unless they are
    unloaded or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their
    ready use. (See 36 CFR 2.4 and 50 CFR 27.42.)

    Legislation to change these regulations has been introduced in both the
    House and Senate: H.R. 5434 by Representative Jeb Hensarling (TX) and S. 2619
    by Senator Tom Coburn (OK). In addition, on February 22, Secretary of the
    Interior Dirk Kempthorne announced a plan to make changes administratively by
    starting a rulemaking process to "update" existing firearms regulations to
    reflect ".the laws by which the host States govern transporting and carrying
    firearms on their analogous public lands." Secretary Kempthorne said he will
    issue the proposed rule changes by April 30 for public comment.

    The Potomac Appalachian Trail Club strongly opposes legislative or
    administrative changes to current park and refuge firearms regulations. If
    Congress or the Interior Department overturns the current firearms
    restrictions, we believe places like the Appalachian National Scenic Trail,
    trails of Shenandoah National Park, the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal National
    Historical Park and the Potomac Heritage National Scenic Trail would be put at
    risk. The sense of sanctuary and safety experienced by our members in these
    areas would be lost, natural and cultural park resources would be threatened,
    and poaching (already a growing problem) would become more prevalent.

    PATC has worked closely with you and other trail enthusiasts over the
    years to establish, maintain and preserve hiking trails in Pennsylvania,
    Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia. Now it's time
    to protect our investment!

    We hope you'll join us in opposing this threat to the well-being of
    our parks and refuges and visitor enjoyment of them. If you share our
    concerns, here's what you can do to help:

    1) Write to your Senators and Member of Congress:

    · Ask them to oppose legislative efforts to change existing park and
    refuge regulations.

    · Tell them that existing regulations are reasonable and sensibly serve
    to protect park resources, visitors, and wildlife.

    · Allowing loaded guns in parks and refuges could lead to a dramatic
    increase in random and unnecessary killing of wildlife.

    · Allowing loaded guns in parks and refuges would degrade the visitor
    experience, jeopardize safety, and put natural and cultural park resources at
    risk.

    2) Educate and activate your own networks. Forward this e-mail.
    Circulate the attached, one page "Action Alert." It's important that
    Congress hear from more than one side of this debate. Attached is a list of
    National Park Service areas and wildlife refuges that would be affected by the
    proposals in PA, MD, VA, WV, and DC. Also attached are names, addresses, and
    phone numbers of Members of Congress.

    3) Plan to comment on Secretary Kempthorne's proposed regulatory
    changes when they are issued at the end of April. Stay tuned to
    http://www.potomacappalachian.org for more information.

    Thanks for any help you can give. If you'd like PATC to send you further
    information on this issue as events develop, please send your name and e-mail
    address to carolinepetti@yahoo.org.

    Caroline Petti, Co-Chair, PATC Conservation Committee


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    tell them to tell that to the girl who was on the appalachian trail,held for 3 days and killed. he didnt have the heart to kill her dog thought.

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    ggd276 wrote:
    tell them to tell that to the girl who was on the appalachian trail,held for 3 days and killed. he didnt have the heart to kill her dog thought.
    That's what I was just thinking. Are these people trying to achieve martyrdom? Or do they think that criminals who don't obey gun laws (and laws about raping and killing people) anywhere else in the country have a desire to obey them in national parks? This is truly pathetic.

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    makes me sick to think about that girl

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    One news article (USA Today) that I found through a link on PATC's forum stated:

    "She was doing everything she could to stay alive," GBI Director Vernon Keenan told the newspaper. "It's not something you can train for. Instinct kicks in ... She nearly got the best of him. She's very much a hero."

    Hero or not SHE IS DEAD! When are people going to learn that restricting citizens from arming themselves is just going to cause more loss of innocent lives? But organizations such as the PATC seems more concerned with the loss of the lives of wildlife and trees. If you read some of the articles on their site and the reason why they don't want firearms, you'll get the picture.



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    Even if the DOI makes the needed changes, it will only transfer the authorityto restrict park carry to the states fromthe federal government. I would assume that many of those states would go ahead and restrict away to keep things the same.

    Little do many people know that there are already select national Parks in Alaskawhere the carriage of loaded firearms both openly and concealed is already allowed for bear protection. An example would be Kenai Fjords National Park.

    Poaching is an issue anywhere there are game animals but the comments by the nut-bag pastedby the OP are obscene and untrue. Those types of instances are rare and the availability of firearms is obviously not a determining factor. It's just more bleeding-heart, feel-good garbage that the antis love to spew to blanket us with their anti-self-defense message by suggesting that the availability of firearms and the ability to carry them automatically makes us more likely to use them unlawfully. It would belaughable if it wasn't so sad.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    i think those people need to hear from us - their emails are listed above.

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    Anyone got reference information handy to provide meat to the email to these knuckleheads? I can look it up but thought there might be someone who bookmarked the outrageous event...

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    bohdi wrote:
    Anyone got reference information handy to provide meat to the email to these knuckleheads? I can look it up but thought there might be someone who bookmarked the outrageous event...
    I don't have the earlier reference you are referring to but you can use the following..

    http://www.govexec.com/features/0503/0503s4s1.htm

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0808/p03s01-ussc.html

    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...4/162412.shtml

    http://www.oregonlive.com/science/or...xml&coll=7

    http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/sep2...4-09-01-02.asp
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    *

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    Thanks Flintlock, I'll be doing some reading tonight

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    The sense of sanctuary and safety experienced by our members in these
    areas would be lost, natural and cultural park resources would be threatened,
    and poaching (already a growing problem) would become more prevalent.


    Now how is honest citizens keeping firearms readlty available for personal protection gonna impact the tree hugger's "sense of sanctuary and safety"? Would they rather have only illegals and drug growers and runners packing? Or maybe they're worried that they'll acuallyhave to be polite to other park visitors for a change?

    However, it is nice of them to admit that the National parks gun ban has done nothing to eliminate poaching. It's totally ineffective in curbing crime, just like all gun bans.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Huck wrote:

    and poaching (already a growing problem) would become more prevalent.


    However, it is nice of them to admit that the National parks gun ban has done nothing to eliminate poaching. It's totally ineffective in curbing crime, just like all gun bans.
    Just exactly what endangered species is being poached? The white tailed deer? The same deer that are being poached on a daily basis by 10% of all the auto accidents occurring in this country? Or the grey squirrel? Which reminds me, I have to clean one of the street by my house. Another victim of vehicular rodent slaughter. Folks, the argument against the car continues to mount...

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    Just exactly what endangered species is being poached?
    Wolves. A lot of range is rented from the government (remember the Clinton land grab?) which doesn't want ranchers shooting wolves. Some ranchers shoot them in the guts and let them run off to die somewhere else, so the government says nobody gets to carry.

    The ranchers said when the wolves were first introduced the government set up a fun to pay for cattle the wolves killed. The fund supposedly ran dry after three months and there was no further reimbursement for dead cattle.

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    How are their numbrs looking these days?

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    You are allowed to carry on parts of the AT already. The trail runs right through a few of the Wildlife Management Areas (public hunting land). Only rule there is that you have to have a CHP. Why should any other parts of the trail be any different??

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    How are their numbrs looking these days?
    The cattle or the wolves?

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    I never joined PATC, and I kind of wish I had so I could quit.

    I spent this last Saturday night alone on top of a mountain in GW NF. I am not overly paranoid about bears or wackjobs, but I believe in being prepared nonetheless. Many of these outdoorsie clubs are made up of environmentalists or naturalists of various stripes, who tend to lean anti-gun.

    Perhaps those of us who enjoy backpacking and day-hiking should start our own club, one with a decidedly more pro-self-defense attitude.

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    I'm with you Tomahawk!

    Pointman, I'll take a cut of that Fillet Mignon please.

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    How's this for a sample - it's what I sent.

    Dear Senator Webb,

    As one of your constituents who voted for you because of your stance on gun rights, I urge you to begin working on the effort to overturn current
    regulations on possession of loaded firearms in National Parks and Wildlife
    Refuges.

    Current regulations generally prohibit individuals from possessing guns in parks and refuges unless they are unloaded or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use. (See 36 CFR 2.4 and 50 CFR 27.42.)

    Legislation to change these regulations has been introduced in both the
    House and Senate: H.R. 5434 by Representative Jeb Hensarling (TX) and S. 2619
    by Senator Tom Coburn (OK). In addition, on February 22, Secretary of the Interior Dirk Kempthorne announced a plan to make changes administratively by starting a rulemaking process to "update" existing firearms regulations to reflect ".the laws by which the host States govern transporting and carrying firearms on their analogous public lands." Secretary Kempthorne said he will
    issue the proposed rule changes by April 30 for public comment.

    As a supporter of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, I would like to inform you that the VCDL has presented a **new** Petition for Rule Making (PRM) to the Department of the Interior (DOI)! The PRM asks for a change in the National Park Service's rules which would require that each park assimilate the gun laws of the state where the park is located.

    I ask that you put forth some energy and support this effort. Many instances of violence have been documented in our nation's parks where citizens may have been prevented from becoming victims if they only had the option to defend themselves with a gun. Please support this cause and let me know what you plan on doing.



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