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Thread: Open Carry in State Park

  1. #1
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    I just spend my weekend in a Utah State Park, and there is still language about no weapons being allowed. I noticed there is a proposed change to the rule that specifically removed the firearm prohibition, but does not state anything about UCA 511 (defense of a temp house or camp).

    It seems that the people over at DNR still haven't gotten a clue about firearms laws in Utah, except they are getting closer.

    How do we influence this rule change (which violates Utah law in the first place) so that it conforms to Utah law, and I won't get kicked out of a state park when I open carry?

  2. #2
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    So what is the "official" status of this? Are all state parks posted against firearms <i>per se</i> or only against open carry, discharge, etc?

  3. #3
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    According to Utah they are allowed:

    http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/c...1/r651-612.htm

    I got this off of:

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf

    Is this wrong?



  4. #4
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    According to the state parks website http://stateparks.utah.gov/reservations/park-rules.htmlYou can't carry, but they are not quoting the whole law:

    The State park website reads:
    Possession or use of firearms, traps or other devices capable of launching a projectile that can immobilize, injure or kill a person or animal, or damage property is prohibited unless the weapon or device is 1) unloaded and packed away to prevent its use, 2) being used by authorized enforcement officers in the performance of official duties.
    The REAL Law reads

    R651-612-1. Unlawful Discharge of Weapons or Firearms.
    The discharge of weapons or firearms, including air and gas powered types, and all other devices capable of launching a projectile which could immobilize, injure, or kill any person or animal or damage property are prohibited in the park system unless:

    (1) The weapon or device is being used for the legal pursuit of wildlife as per R651-614.

    (2) The use of the weapon or device is authorized by a Special Use Permit or an authorized event as per R651-608.

    (3) The weapon or device is used in accordance with UCA 53-5-701 Concealed Weapons Act, or UCA 76-2- 402, 76-2-403, or 76-2-405.

    (4) The weapon or device is being used by authorized law enforcement officers in the performance of their official duties in accordance with UCA 76-2-402.
    And that Mirrors the state law.

    Nice of them to "forget" the part thatsays it is OK to have a gun


  5. #5
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    That bugs me how they don't tell the whole truth.

  6. #6
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    roseblood wrote:
    I just spend my weekend in a Utah State Park, and there is still language about no weapons being allowed. I noticed there is a proposed change to the rule that specifically removed the firearm prohibition, but does not state anything about UCA 511 (defense of a temp house or camp).

    It seems that the people over at DNR still haven't gotten a clue about firearms laws in Utah, except they are getting closer.

    How do we influence this rule change (which violates Utah law in the first place) so that it conforms to Utah law, and I won't get kicked out of a state park when I open carry?
    Best thing to do is to bring these things to our attention. That includes anything contained in official information phamplets, on official websites, or posted on signs at your favorite camping or hiking location.

    Also, send a quick email or make a call to the AG's office to let him know and ask him to follow up on this. Contact info at http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/contact_us.html.

    Finally, never hurts to make a polite call to the whichever agency is publishing the incorrect or illegal information. I've gotten to where I don't attempt to convince anyone who isn't going to quickl agree with me. I firmly but politely state that their sign, rule, regulation, or information is in contradiction to State preemption law and needs to be corrected. If they are not very quickly agreeing with me, I simply, politely, but bluntly inform them that I will be informing the AG's office to follow up on this and that any attempts by them or their personal to enforce their rule is a violation of State law.

    We are making progress on this and every time we can find and correct such a situation it helps prevent future problems.

    I recently noticed "no guns" posted on the signage along the Jordan River Parkway in South Jordan. Thanks to a little help from others, the city has been convinced of the error of their ways and is now working to correct those signs to comply with State law that allows the city to ban discharge and hunting, but not mere possesion.

    Others have had great success with the signs at the SLC airport, and others are currently working on similar issues with various city or county agencies.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  7. #7
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    roseblood wrote:
    I just spend my weekend in a Utah State Park, and there is still language about no weapons being allowed. I noticed there is a proposed change to the rule that specifically removed the firearm prohibition, but does not state anything about UCA 511 (defense of a temp house or camp).

    It seems that the people over at DNR still haven't gotten a clue about firearms laws in Utah, except they are getting closer.

    How do we influence this rule change (which violates Utah law in the first place) so that it conforms to Utah law, and I won't get kicked out of a state park when I open carry?
    Best thing to do is to bring these things to our attention. That includes anything contained in official information phamplets, on official websites, or posted on signs at your favorite camping or hiking location.

    Also, send a quick email or make a call to the AG's office to let him know and ask him to follow up on this. Contact info at http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/contact_us.html.

    Finally, never hurts to make a polite call to the whichever agency is publishing the incorrect or illegal information. I've gotten to where I don't attempt to convince anyone who isn't going to quickl agree with me. I firmly but politely state that their sign, rule, regulation, or information is in contradiction to State preemption law and needs to be corrected. If they are not very quickly agreeing with me, I simply, politely, but bluntly inform them that I will be informing the AG's office to follow up on this and that any attempts by them or their personal to enforce their rule is a violation of State law.

    We are making progress on this and every time we can find and correct such a situation it helps prevent future problems.

    I recently noticed "no guns" posted on the signage along the Jordan River Parkway in South Jordan. Thanks to a little help from others, the city has been convinced of the error of their ways and is now working to correct those signs to comply with State law that allows the city to ban discharge and hunting, but not mere possesion.

    Others have had great success with the signs at the SLC airport, and others are currently working on similar issues with various city or county agencies.

    Charles

    By discharge you mean ILLEGAL discharge and not the one for defensive purposes, right Charles???

    TJ

  8. #8
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    By discharge you mean ILLEGAL discharge and not the one for defensive purposes, right Charles???

    TJ
    Don't give the gun grabbers any ideas. "Of course it is legal to carry a gun. But it is a capital offense to discharge it for any reason, no exceptions at all." (Insert evil laugh here.)

    Yes, there is ALWAYS a self defense exception to rules against discharge but I'm not about to push for a sign that goes into that much detail. A simple ban on discharge is implicitly understood to ban recreational or similar discharge, but if the fecal matter hits the rotating air-foils, you are legally justified in engaging the booger hook on the bang switch.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  9. #9
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    By discharge you mean ILLEGAL discharge and not the one for defensive purposes, right Charles???

    TJ
    Don't give the gun grabbers any ideas. "Of course it is legal to carry a gun. But it is a capital offense to discharge it for any reason, no exceptions at all." (Insert evil laugh here.)

    Yes, there is ALWAYS a self defense exception to rules against discharge but I'm not about to push for a sign that goes into that much detail. A simple ban on discharge is implicitly understood to ban recreational or similar discharge, but if the fecal matter hits the rotating air-foils, you are legally justified in engaging the booger hook on the bang switch.

    Charles
    Once again I agree with you and just wanted your clarification of what you meant. Thanks Charles. BTW, It was nicde to meet you finally at the Meet over at Golden Corral.

    TJ

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