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Thread: Wal-Mart to film gun sales in bid to fight crime

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    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews

    since walmart LIVES in rural america this could really have some repercussions.

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    well, I guess Bloomberg & his cronies never learn

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    from the reponsible mayors:

    RESPONSIBLE FIREARMS RETAILER PARTNERSHIP:
    A 10-Point Voluntary Code
    1. Videotaping the Point of Sale for All Firearms Transactions. Participating retailers will videotape the point-of-sale of all firearms transactions and maintain videos for 6 months to deter illegal purchases and monitor employees.
    2. Computerized Crime Gun Trace Log and Alert System. Participating retailers will maintain a computerized log of crime gun traces relating to the retailer. Once the program is in place, if a customer who has a prior trace at that retailer attempts to purchase a firearm, the sale will be electronically flagged. The retailer would have discretion to proceed with the sale or stop the sale.
    3. Purchaser Declaration. For sales flagged by the trace alert system, participating retailers will ask purchasers to fill out a declaration indicating that they meet the legal requirement to purchase the firearm.
    4. Deterring Fake IDs. Participating retailers will only accept valid federal- or state-issued picture IDs as primary identification. Retailers will utilize additional ID checking mechanisms.
    5. Consistent Visible Signage Consistent Visible Signage. Participating retailers will post signage created by the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership to alert customers of their legal responsibilities at the point-of-sale.
    6. Employee Background Checks Employee Background Checks. Participating retailers will conduct criminal background checks for all employees selling or handling firearms.
    7. Employee Responsibility Training. Participating retailers will participate in an employee responsibility training program focused on deterring illegal purchasers. The Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership will create an online training system based on Wal-Mart's training program.
    8. Inventory Checking. Participating retailers will conduct daily and quarterly audits. Guidelines will be based on Wal-Mart's firearms audit check procedures.
    9. No Sales Without Background Check Results. Participating retailers would prohibit sales based on "default proceeds," which are permitted by law when the background check has not returned a result within 3 days.
    10. Securing Firearms. Participating retailers will maintain firearms kept in customer accessible areas in locked cases or locked to racks.
    Participating retailers will phase in the provisions of Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership over time.


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    oh you must go look at the list of mayors our own from Alexandria, Norfolk, Petersburg, Portsmouth and Richmond.

    http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns..../members.shtml

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    I don't see anything wrong with Wal*Mart ensuring who they sell to is legit.

    I do see a problem with them being threatened by people like Bloomberg.

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    hsmith wrote:
    I don't see anything wrong with Wal*Mart ensuring who they sell to is legit.

    I do see a problem with them being threatened by people like Bloomberg.
    but should they be alowed video and keeping files around on us.
    Anytime Bloomberg is involved I worry.


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    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gralhnpSNmqf6CzJAV7ELLbucN1gD901OS3G4

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, is striking a deal with outspoken gun control advocate New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on tighter standards for such sales.

    Bloomberg is announcing the initiative Monday as he meets with Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group he founded to try to crack down on the unlawful traffic in weapons that are often used in crimes.

    Under the group's Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. will agree to retain records of all sales in which guns are later found to be used in crimes, said mayoral spokesman Jason Post. The company will also conduct background checks on employees who handle guns.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004347817_apgunsales.html?syndication=rss

    Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, announced Monday it will toughen rules for gun sales, from storing video of purchases to creating an internal log of which guns they sell that are later used in crimes.

    J.P. Suarez, the chief compliance officer for Wal-Mart Stores Inc., appeared with outspoken gun control advocate Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York to announce the changes at a gathering of Bloomberg's group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

    Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:

    -Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.

    -Retaining the recorded images of gun sales in case law enforcement wants to view them later as part of an investigation.

    -Expanding background checks of employees who handle guns and expanding inventory controls.

    Suarez said the tougher standards will come with some additional cost to the company.

    "The costs are, we think, part of what it takes to be responsible. Everything is not pain-free," he said, adding that small sellers can implement many of the same rules. He did not say how long it would take to implement all the changes, but noted that software must still be created for an internal log of guns later used in crimes.

    Suarez said his company may receive some pressure from gun rights groups, but added, "This is not a signal that we're getting out of firearms."

    The National Rifle Association denounced the company's move.

    "I view it as a public relations stunt that stigmatizes law-abiding firearms purchasers exercising their freedom under the Constitution," said NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre. He said that if politicians were serious about reducing gun crime they would worry less about legal sellers and buyers and get tougher criminal sentences for illegal gun dealers.

    "I honestly think it's a corporation trying to curry favor with politicians as opposed to doing anything meaningful about stopping crime," said LaPierre.






    Wal-Mart sells only rifles and shotguns in its U.S. stores, with the exception of Alaska sites, which also sell handguns.

    Bloomberg urged other companies to join Wal-Mart in the initiative called the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership.

    "We didn't pressure them, they're doing it because they think it's the responsible thing to do," he said.

    Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, had previously tried to establish a store in New York City but failed.

    The mayors' gun summit also unveiled a new lobbying effort to close what they call the "gun show loophole," which allows sales of firearms without background checks between private individuals at gun shows.

    Bloomberg founded the group two years ago with Boston mayor Thomas Menino to reduce the flow of guns from store displays into the hands of criminals.

    The group, largely funded by Bloomberg's personal fortune, announced it was spending more than $100,000 on television ads, starting Wednesday, featuring all three of the current main presidential candidates voicing their opposition to the gun show loophole.

    The ads will run in the home states of the three candidates - John McCain of Arizona, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois. It also will air across Pennsylvania, which holds its primary next week, as well as Florida, Maryland and Massachusetts.

    The mayors group is trying to gather support in Congress to:

    -End the gun show loophole.

    -Require gun dealers to perform criminal background checks on all gun-handling employees.

    -Close a so-called fire-sale loophole that allows gun dealers whose licenses have been revoked by the government to sell off their inventory without background checks.

    -Add those placed on the terrorist no-fly list to the list of people prohibited from purchasing a firearm.


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    esmart wrote
    but should they be alowed video and keeping files around on us.
    Anytime Bloomberg is involved I worry.
    Reality is, they already do. Even notice the security cameras that are so common in stores these days? Specifically recording gun sales, and specifically keeping the footage for 6 months are probably only very minor changes in what is already done.

    What bothers me is NOT that a retailer may videotape transactions. What bothers me is that they will single out and treat guns and gun purchases as different than other purchases. Will spray paint sales be recorded and kept for 6 months to track down those who engage in graffiti vandalism? What about recording the purchase of canned whipped cream to track down those guilty of huffing?

    I also wonder how the gun grabbers would react to implementing a similar set of procedures for registering to vote and then actually casting ballots? While off topic here, I would be thrilled to see some ID laws for registering and voting. How about videotaping ballot stations so as to ID those guilty of vote fraud? Some here may disagree with me. But wouldn't it be fun to see Bloomberg's reaction to such suggestions at polling locations?
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    I'd have to actually step inside a Walmart for that to mean anything to me, so it's a non issue.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Dont like this at all.... reminds me of that movie red dawn.. and since walmart is basically china in a building...lol

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    Wow. Who gets access to this libray? How? Is it legal to record and retain the footage? (Probably some legalese in the 8 page receipt saying "I hereby allow Wal Mart to film this transaction and use it as they will...".)

    What if you're purchasing several non-gun items at the same time? Will they keep a permanent record of all of it? Sounds like everything at that POS. Too many potential bad uses for this. They already have your name, address, SSN, etc., and they're not subject to the same privacy / disclosure rules as a gov. agency would be.

    My one man boycott starts now. :?



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    Hell...I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe we should start video taping private sales too. You know, moral responsibility. We could put them on youtube to see if anyone recognizes them as wife beaters or mental cases.

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    Beat me to it..



    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145

    WASHINGTON - Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest seller of firearms, announced Monday it will toughen rules for gun sales, from storing video of purchases to creating an internal log of which guns they sell that are later used in crimes.

    <snip>



    Guess I don't buy at wallyworld anymore.. (or any less if possible. lol)

    Erus



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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    That's a good idea. In fact, we should put RFID chips on all people, guns, and ammo so we'd know immediately if a felon or nut job was holding a weapon and if it is loaded. (Since all buildings and transportation devices will have built-in scanners.)



    EDIT: spelling

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    I will continue to support Wal-Mart for my own benefit (more money in my pocket from free market capitalism and all that), but no longer will I purchase ammunition there, nor will I purchase a gun there in the future.
    Unfortunately, security cameras are a fact of life, but cataloging footage to individuals and going above the law for background checks is unacceptable.

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    I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. While I don't like the fact that Blomberg is involved, I think this is a great example of capitalism taking care of something without being forced by the government.

    I don't think anyone here wants more criminals armed. At the same time most of us wish that the state wasn't in our business every time we bought a gun. I like the idea of taking the state out of it. Private businesses can take the initiative then the public who is concerned with guns getting into the hands of criminals can use their pocketbook to support businesses who make the effort, and businesses who supply guns to criminals can be boycotted.

    Lets put it this way, who do you trust more with the information and who do you think can implement a more effective solution with less money? The government, or a private business?

    I love capitalism, it takes care of things waaaaaay better than the government ever could.

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    asforme wrote:
    I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. While I don't like the fact that Blomberg is involved, I think this is a great example of capitalism taking care of something without being forced by the government.
    Do you think Wal Mart would have made such a policy based on the request of Joe Average Citizen down the block? Government WAS involved in this. Just in a deceitful, secretive manner; a bunch of city Mayors using collective bargaining power and you can bet they threatened to support every silly no-Wal-Mart_in-my-city effort they could find if WM wouldn't bend over.


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    kf4uel wrote:
    Dont like this at all.... reminds me of that movie red dawn.. and since walmart is basically china in a building...lol
    LOL, that is crazy....

    but I was thinking the same EXACTsame thing. That was one of the best pro-gun, pro freedom movies ever made.



    It would be funny to hire a stripper to go there and buy a gun. When they start filmingshe peels off allher clothes and says, " I thought you said this was to identify me ? When they make the posters for where I work.....

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    glockrocker wrote:
    I will continue to support Wal-Mart for my own benefit ...
    That's basically my take on all firearms-related purchases. I like to support my local gun shop (Adventure Sports) for their fine quality and knowledgable staff and also support chain stores with the guts to sell (hand) guns. I also try to reward Web dealers of ammo and accessories when they offer really good deals.
    I have no problem with making an economics-based decision. However, in my area there are plenty of choices left after I eliminate those with distasteful policies.


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    Well I don't shop at walmart for very much already, this pretty much removes them from my list of stores.

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    Jim675 wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. While I don't like the fact that Blomberg is involved, I think this is a great example of capitalism taking care of something without being forced by the government.
    Do you think Wal Mart would have made such a policy based on the request of Joe Average Citizen down the block? Government WAS involved in this. Just in a deceitful, secretive manner; a bunch of city Mayors using collective bargaining power and you can bet they threatened to support every silly no-Wal-Mart_in-my-city effort they could find if WM wouldn't bend over.
    That doesn't really make any sense though. AFIAK wal-mart has always been the type to settle just outside a city and tell them to go jump off a bridge with their nonsense laws.

    Maybe I'm living in a fantasy world where the "invisible hand" of economic decision making still has any muscle. But if I'm not, and wal-mart is enacting these policies as an independent PR move, I have no problem with that.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I'd have to actually step inside a Walmart for that to mean anything to me, so it's a non issue.
    +1

    The hell with those commie pinkos.

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    jack wrote:
    kf4uel wrote:
    Dont like this at all.... reminds me of that movie red dawn.. and since walmart is basically china in a building...lol
    LOL, that is crazy....

    but I was thinking the same EXACTsame thing. That was one of the best pro-gun, pro freedom movies ever made.



    It would be funny to hire a stripper to go there and buy a gun. When they start filmingshe peels off allher clothes and says, " I thought you said this was to identify me ? When they make the posters for where I work.....
    The only scenario worse that Red Dawn would be be if the Russians invaded with ZOMBIES!!!


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    WalMart gets the green light to open a store in New York in 3...2...1...

    I'm glad I am aware of their noble cause and that they will post signs of Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership so I know to go into that particular store and tell them that as long as they are party to Bloomberg's abomination that I will not purchase any firearms from them. I can only dream that once word gets out that WalMart is no longer the largest firearms seller.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The real danger is that what Walmart does now will, in the future, be the standard. Expect future proposed legislation for all dealers to meet the Walmart standard. This will be a back door effort to eliminate the small independent dealer.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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