nemo
Regular Member
imported post
ChinChin wrote:
ChinChin wrote:
Good area. You will be close to Blue Ridge. Say hi to Mark and Tim.
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Loudoun County Open Carry
- Thread starter ed
- Start date
tapper95
Regular Member
imported post
Might be moving back to Loudoun next summer after my wife finishes school... she already has a job offer in Leesburg...
My parent's live in Sterling, but my only OC'ing from those days in Loudoun was out at Izaak Walton west of Leesburg... I guess being on the range doesn't count
I am interested in how Loudoun views OC though, especially after hearing about how ridiculous Fairfax can be about it... I usually CC, but I have OCed for a couple of VCDL fellowship events in Norfolk... Last time I had my Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 in a black leather Bianchi paddle holster, so I assume that most people convinced themselves I was a cop...
...doesn't help that I have very short hair and was wearing a polo shirt... looking like a detective in the warm weather...
Might be moving back to Loudoun next summer after my wife finishes school... she already has a job offer in Leesburg...
My parent's live in Sterling, but my only OC'ing from those days in Loudoun was out at Izaak Walton west of Leesburg... I guess being on the range doesn't count
I am interested in how Loudoun views OC though, especially after hearing about how ridiculous Fairfax can be about it... I usually CC, but I have OCed for a couple of VCDL fellowship events in Norfolk... Last time I had my Smith & Wesson Sigma .40 in a black leather Bianchi paddle holster, so I assume that most people convinced themselves I was a cop...
...doesn't help that I have very short hair and was wearing a polo shirt... looking like a detective in the warm weather...
Forty-five
Regular Member
imported post
tapper95 wrote:
tapper95 wrote:
Never had a problem OCing in Loudoun--restaurants, retail stores, supermarkets, etc. Sometimes people give me a look over, but overall people mind their business.
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
imported post
Forty-five wrote:
Forty-five wrote:
Yeah and Fairfax has had a fine record with it as I recall. I live in western Prince William County but I do travel into Fairfax often while OC'ing. I've never had a problem and from what I've heard, Fairfax police are good about it.
nemo
Regular Member
imported post
nemo wrote:
nemo wrote:
OK. I checked it out on Friday, after work. They are brand new, open just a few weeks. They have a selection of three wursts, a few sandwiches, salads, sodas, German beer in bottle and tap, and wine. They have open air dining, so hope for good weather. They are on Harrison, right across from market Station.
tapper95
Regular Member
imported post
SouthernBoy wrote:
IIRC, Vienna and Falls Church had issues (Since addressed and solved), and technically I think they both have their own Police Departments, but in my mind I lump Fairfax as one big entity...
The truth of the matter is that officers are human and if they are not interested in or constantly dealing with,a certain aspect of law, they will not be expert in it... Not bringing up excuses, just talking reality... It would be ideal for all officers to know every law, but lawyers, judges, and magistrates get to refer to shelves full of books so how can we expect an officer to know every law...
We can, however, educate. That is exactly what many of us here are trying to do. I was very happy that the 3 good friends I have in Portsmouth and Norfolk PD all knew exactly what was allowed and not allowed as far as concealed and open carrying when I asked them about it.
The big problem is when there is an incident like Tony's Pizza in Manassass, or the incidents in Norfolk last yearinvolving Chet and Dan, and the officers refuse to listen to reason and L.E. supervisors still have no idea about the laws. When you have a group of officers on a scene, things should be more professional, not more wolf-pack and chaotic.
What scares me is that since I left NoVa in the early 90's, someone left the gate to the liberal farm open and a flood of bleeding heart, hand holding, kumbaya singing, rights denying, out of touch, killers of our freedom have moved in to Fairfax and parts of Loudoun...
I grew up in a Loudoun County full of God fearing, Freedom loving, Responsible, Self Sufficient people... (read: Farmers and Defense Contractors, a.k.a. former Military...)
Now I hear it's almost occupied territory... Has Maryland started secretly invading?
Footnote: The final section of this post is merely political rhetoric and ranting for entertainment purposes only... but it might be a good idea to get ready to barricade the Point of Rocks Bridge just in case...
SouthernBoy wrote:
IIRC, Vienna and Falls Church had issues (Since addressed and solved), and technically I think they both have their own Police Departments, but in my mind I lump Fairfax as one big entity...
The truth of the matter is that officers are human and if they are not interested in or constantly dealing with,a certain aspect of law, they will not be expert in it... Not bringing up excuses, just talking reality... It would be ideal for all officers to know every law, but lawyers, judges, and magistrates get to refer to shelves full of books so how can we expect an officer to know every law...
We can, however, educate. That is exactly what many of us here are trying to do. I was very happy that the 3 good friends I have in Portsmouth and Norfolk PD all knew exactly what was allowed and not allowed as far as concealed and open carrying when I asked them about it.
The big problem is when there is an incident like Tony's Pizza in Manassass, or the incidents in Norfolk last yearinvolving Chet and Dan, and the officers refuse to listen to reason and L.E. supervisors still have no idea about the laws. When you have a group of officers on a scene, things should be more professional, not more wolf-pack and chaotic.
What scares me is that since I left NoVa in the early 90's, someone left the gate to the liberal farm open and a flood of bleeding heart, hand holding, kumbaya singing, rights denying, out of touch, killers of our freedom have moved in to Fairfax and parts of Loudoun...
I grew up in a Loudoun County full of God fearing, Freedom loving, Responsible, Self Sufficient people... (read: Farmers and Defense Contractors, a.k.a. former Military...)
Now I hear it's almost occupied territory... Has Maryland started secretly invading?
Footnote: The final section of this post is merely political rhetoric and ranting for entertainment purposes only... but it might be a good idea to get ready to barricade the Point of Rocks Bridge just in case...
nemo
Regular Member
imported post
tapper95 wrote:
This same comment has come up, on other threads, before, and it always makes me see a RCOB.
They always say, well how can I possibly know ALL the laws? It's easy, bucko: use your little radio to call your boss or the magistrate with all those shelves of lawbooks. But when they come after you, they always say that ignorance of the law is no excuse, though we ourselves do NOT have access to those same shelves of lawbooks. Damned double standard. :cuss:
tapper95 wrote:
This same comment has come up, on other threads, before, and it always makes me see a RCOB.
They always say, well how can I possibly know ALL the laws? It's easy, bucko: use your little radio to call your boss or the magistrate with all those shelves of lawbooks. But when they come after you, they always say that ignorance of the law is no excuse, though we ourselves do NOT have access to those same shelves of lawbooks. Damned double standard. :cuss:
ChinChin
Regular Member
imported post
nemo wrote:
In this 21st century world, the amount of knowledge you can place on a portable hand-held reading device is obscene. Hell, there are devices that can store 500,000 songs converted to 1's and 0's. Storing all the criminal and civil codes would be childs play. Having a sorting program by keyword would also be infantly easy. Many juristictions already have wireless laptops in their cruisers as it is, so it would honestly be as easy as downloding the LIC for Virginia onto a 10G thumb drive, sticking that into a USB port and doing a "find".
Of course, when lawfuly armed citizens present documentation to officers who refuse to read it. . .the chance of them going that extra mile themselves to confirm the information is slim to none.
nemo wrote:
In this 21st century world, the amount of knowledge you can place on a portable hand-held reading device is obscene. Hell, there are devices that can store 500,000 songs converted to 1's and 0's. Storing all the criminal and civil codes would be childs play. Having a sorting program by keyword would also be infantly easy. Many juristictions already have wireless laptops in their cruisers as it is, so it would honestly be as easy as downloding the LIC for Virginia onto a 10G thumb drive, sticking that into a USB port and doing a "find".
Of course, when lawfuly armed citizens present documentation to officers who refuse to read it. . .the chance of them going that extra mile themselves to confirm the information is slim to none.
tapper95
Regular Member
imported post
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post... I wasn't inferring "Ignorance as an excuse" especially since that is always shot down in court... Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse...
The idea of a handheld reference device to give officers up to date and convenient access to all laws is great, but what I was really getting at is that someone on that radio or someone on the scene (especially when there are several officers and ahigher ranking supervisory officer like at Tony's Pizza in Manassas) someone has got to know the law...
I did say that I was not trying to offer excuses, merely discussing reality... But discussing reality can lead to good changes...
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post... I wasn't inferring "Ignorance as an excuse" especially since that is always shot down in court... Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse...
The idea of a handheld reference device to give officers up to date and convenient access to all laws is great, but what I was really getting at is that someone on that radio or someone on the scene (especially when there are several officers and ahigher ranking supervisory officer like at Tony's Pizza in Manassas) someone has got to know the law...
I did say that I was not trying to offer excuses, merely discussing reality... But discussing reality can lead to good changes...
ChinChin
Regular Member
imported post
tapper95 wrote:
Oh no doubt. It's difficult for an officer to enforce laws effectively when they don't know what those laws are. The hand held device would allow officers to detain an individual long enough to type "firearm carry", get the result that says it is lawful to carry open in an eatery, then bid the citizen good day and apologize for detaining them. In theory that officer would then in the future know not to stop somebody for merely having a displayed firearm on their hip.
When none of the officers, especialy the brass on scene know what the law is, then I fully grant you. . .that is a problem. The handheld would give the officers a "fall back" to double check when there is a question without having to resort to calling up the magistrate at 9PM, which I'm sure they love.
tapper95 wrote:
Oh no doubt. It's difficult for an officer to enforce laws effectively when they don't know what those laws are. The hand held device would allow officers to detain an individual long enough to type "firearm carry", get the result that says it is lawful to carry open in an eatery, then bid the citizen good day and apologize for detaining them. In theory that officer would then in the future know not to stop somebody for merely having a displayed firearm on their hip.
When none of the officers, especialy the brass on scene know what the law is, then I fully grant you. . .that is a problem. The handheld would give the officers a "fall back" to double check when there is a question without having to resort to calling up the magistrate at 9PM, which I'm sure they love.
tapper95
Regular Member
imported post
The only problem witht he handheld, or some similar reference, is taking things out of context. A knowledgable officer and knowledgable magistrates are still the best defense against abuse of non-existent or mis-interpreted laws.
The only problem witht he handheld, or some similar reference, is taking things out of context. A knowledgable officer and knowledgable magistrates are still the best defense against abuse of non-existent or mis-interpreted laws.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
Sorry guys.. can't do May 4tth right now as I will be in my UTAH ccw non resident class. We will have to pick another day for Loudoun.. but I will see you guys at the April 26th dinner.
Ed
Sorry guys.. can't do May 4tth right now as I will be in my UTAH ccw non resident class. We will have to pick another day for Loudoun.. but I will see you guys at the April 26th dinner.
Ed
nemo
Regular Member
imported post
ed wrote:
Rats!:banghead: My wife is out of town on the 4th, so that date WORKED for me! Going out to play will be more of a problem, for me, with her at home; there are too many things on her honey-do list, with the good weather here, now.
Unless you want to stay on for the 4th, and let Ed come to the next one.
BTW, whoever wants to pick the date can also pick the place; enough have been named, I hope.
ed wrote:
Rats!:banghead: My wife is out of town on the 4th, so that date WORKED for me! Going out to play will be more of a problem, for me, with her at home; there are too many things on her honey-do list, with the good weather here, now.
Unless you want to stay on for the 4th, and let Ed come to the next one.
BTW, whoever wants to pick the date can also pick the place; enough have been named, I hope.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I might be able to make a dinner on the 4th. (like around 7pm).. Or.. feel free to have a lunch without me.. we can do this more than once!! it's LEGAL!
I might be able to make a dinner on the 4th. (like around 7pm).. Or.. feel free to have a lunch without me.. we can do this more than once!! it's LEGAL!
tnolan2008
Regular Member
imported post
I live in Ashburn, I've seen quite a few people OC. I do, and I OC in my car. Oh by the way, I'm game for an OC get to gather in a nice public place. Want to try a real OC. Wait and see the looks to you get on a motor cycle with an MP-5 slung on your back. I love OC. And yes I had my papers with me.
Any one in loudoun want to do an OC dinner or just a hang out some where just yell.
I live in Ashburn, I've seen quite a few people OC. I do, and I OC in my car. Oh by the way, I'm game for an OC get to gather in a nice public place. Want to try a real OC. Wait and see the looks to you get on a motor cycle with an MP-5 slung on your back. I love OC. And yes I had my papers with me.
Any one in loudoun want to do an OC dinner or just a hang out some where just yell.
tapper95
Regular Member
imported post
tnolan2008 wrote:
If you bring your MP5, I'll have to get a tac sling and decide between my Remington 870 (18 1/2" barrell so it's easier to get in and out of the car...) or my "modernized"SKS...
tnolan2008 wrote:
I live in Ashburn, I've seen quite a few people OC. I do, and I OC in my car. Oh by the way, I'm game for an OC get to gather in a nice public place. Want to try a real OC. Wait and see the looks to you get on a motor cycle with an MP-5 slung on your back. I love OC. And yes I had my papers with me.
Any one in loudoun want to do an OC dinner or just a hang out some where just yell.
If you bring your MP5, I'll have to get a tac sling and decide between my Remington 870 (18 1/2" barrell so it's easier to get in and out of the car...) or my "modernized"SKS...
tnolan2008
Regular Member
imported post
You should do the 870... SKS's and AK's are so...:question: :idea:Terrorist-"ish"
Then we would have todo thigh rigs and kevlar. Let's keep it simple. Side arms and say, "at least two extra mags"
So when to we go? huh huh :what:
You should do the 870... SKS's and AK's are so...:question: :idea:Terrorist-"ish"
Then we would have todo thigh rigs and kevlar. Let's keep it simple. Side arms and say, "at least two extra mags"
So when to we go? huh huh :what:
zoom6zoom
Regular Member
imported post
Well, this was in Winchester, a bit west of Loudon, but we don't have a thread for that...
Stopped at a Sunoco on 522 just west of Winchester this afternoon on my way back from Indianapolis where I'd been helping teach a workshop on home building AK's.
I was OC'ing (and wearing my WOLVERINES! t-shirt). Fellow behind us at the pumps asked what I was carrying and told me, "I've got my Super Blackhawk under the seat." He drove off before I could tell him about OCDO... or the fact that in addition to the Sig on my hip, there was a pile of more toys in the truck, including about eight AK's, two Browing 1919 belt-feds, a Sterling, and a full-auto Sten. Yes, it was a fun weekend.
Well, this was in Winchester, a bit west of Loudon, but we don't have a thread for that...
Stopped at a Sunoco on 522 just west of Winchester this afternoon on my way back from Indianapolis where I'd been helping teach a workshop on home building AK's.
I was OC'ing (and wearing my WOLVERINES! t-shirt). Fellow behind us at the pumps asked what I was carrying and told me, "I've got my Super Blackhawk under the seat." He drove off before I could tell him about OCDO... or the fact that in addition to the Sig on my hip, there was a pile of more toys in the truck, including about eight AK's, two Browing 1919 belt-feds, a Sterling, and a full-auto Sten. Yes, it was a fun weekend.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
OK.. so now that the VCDL dinner is out of the way.. I can concentrate on the next thing.. I am not sure if we decided Leesburg or Loudoun... and what night is best for people... (weekend.. weekday?)
Ed
OK.. so now that the VCDL dinner is out of the way.. I can concentrate on the next thing.. I am not sure if we decided Leesburg or Loudoun... and what night is best for people... (weekend.. weekday?)
Ed
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
How bout ASHBURN Fuddruckers at 7PM on Saturday 5/3/08?
[size="-1"]www.fuddsashburn.com
44036 Pipeline Plaza
Ashburn, VA 20147
(703) 724-0990[/size]
How bout ASHBURN Fuddruckers at 7PM on Saturday 5/3/08?
[size="-1"]www.fuddsashburn.com
44036 Pipeline Plaza
Ashburn, VA 20147
(703) 724-0990[/size]