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Severe DISLIKE for Norfolk Police now.

Scheetz

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Background:

We went out to the bar last night. Had a great time before my roommate and great friend goes into surgery on Thursday. He became quite belligerent as everything came out. His yelling was heard by a neighbor who called the police reporting domestic dispute.

4 squad cars show up to speak with us. A female officer then tried to walk into our house without being invited. My second roommate quickly blocked the door and said without a warrant your not coming in. :p She demanded he move or he will be arrested for obstruction of justice. (At this point everyone in the house, well all 5 of us are standing in our doorway/hallway.) She then grabbed my roommate by the arm, pulled him outside into the yard and cuffed him. He was then put in the squad car and we were told he would be released. The female officer then drove away as apparently my roommate was mouthing off to her in the car. (Yes, that sealed the deal)

In the mean time, the LT asked me if he could come in side. Very politely I might add. I asked what the grounds were and was told he wanted to make sure nobody was injured. I allowed his entry to look at the remaining 4 people. He checked us out and walked back outside. They then left after squaring away that it was just two brothers arguing and to keep the noise down.

Now, before you complete your thought that we were all plastered, you can squash it. I had 2 beers in me, my roommate who was arrested had a buzz, the other roommate was the drunk one, hence why he was being so loud. The other 2 were also not drunk.

At this point I am still fuming. My buddy has a $1,500 bail which none of us can front even with everyone being 22yrs old to 28yrs. I want to file a complaint about this officer however the fact that my roommate mouthed off to her made me reconsider. If he had been let go I would call and say I did not appreciate how she handled our situation. Pulling someone out of their own home for sticking up to his Amendment crosses the line. By the way, when trying to get a hold of Norfolk jail in the AM. Don't expect a nice person to pick up the phone. When I asked about his bail and what his charges were the woman on the line told me she won't tell me anything and to call someone else. :cuss: Yes, those are her words.

This is the not the first time I have had to deal with Norfolk officers late at night. 2 months ago my roommates and I were sitting on our roof with a beer and we were hit with a spotlight. They ran full background checks on our license for the reason of and I quote "Clear you for any warrants." I made small talk with the officer as when my name was read off dispatch mentioned my CCW.

So yes that was long, I am fuming that an officer would pull someone out of their house for demanding she produce a warrant. However, my roommate caused the actual arrest when he mouthed off in the car. So I cant complain about the latter. However, I did mention to the LT I did not appreciate the way his officer handled my roommate requesting a warrant. (Sarcasm: Which I am sure he will take note of)

I guess LEOs least expect to be called to a house and have 3 roommates who know how the situation should be handled. :cool:
 

ChinChin

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Scheetz wrote:
4 squad cars show up to speak with us. A female officer then tried to walk into our house without being invited. My second roommate quickly blocked the door and said without a warrant your not coming in. :p She demanded he move or he will be arrested for obstruction of justice. (At this point everyone in the house, well all 5 of us are standing in our doorway/hallway.) She then grabbed my roommate by the arm, pulled him outside into the yard and cuffed him.

Without knowing the full story, it sounds as if your roomate was arrested for denying this femal officer entery into a private residence he had lawful possession of as she did not have a warrant to search and he asserted his 4th amendment rights.

Yeah, you may want to look into getting a lawyer for that one. Understand you may not have the disposable income to "afford justice" but at the very least,

Amend: I understood the story incorrectly. If they were responding to a possible domestic, the need to ensure everybodies safety visualy is mandated, often time by law.
 

Gray Peterson

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Wow, they need to be sued. I don't care what kind of bad attitude you might have, unless you're physically threatening the officer or actually commiting a crime. This is what I call an "attitude adjustment" arrest, which is basically charging someone with a crime that is not applicable. It's one of the most despicable acts a police officer can do short of planting drugs/evidence or unjustifiably shooting/killing a private citizen.
 

jack

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Sounds to me like the officer had probably cause to make entry and thus no warrant was required. Your friend will be convicted for obstruction of justice (worst case) or disorderly conduct (best case). You can not impede or interfere with the police that are their to investigate a domestic dispute. They had probably cause easily on this.
 

vrwmiller

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jack wrote:
Sounds to me like the officer had probably cause to make entry and thus no warrant was required. Your friend will be convicted for obstruction of justice (worst case) or disorderly conduct (best case). You can not impede or interfere with the police that are their to investigate a domestic dispute. They had probably cause easily on this.
Can you elaborate on this? What was the probable cause as you see it?
 

ProShooter

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I say your friend doesnt have a leg to stand on......

An officer can make a warrantless entry into a residence for:

• Rescue:
Rescue of someone in imminent threat of death or serious injury.


• Property damage:
There must be an imminent threat of substantial property damage.


• Public danger:
Includes dangerous hazards or instrumentalities.


• Destruction of evidence:
Prior to entry, officers must have probable cause to believe that evidence of a crime is on the premises and the officers are aware of specific facts which reasonably indicate the someone on the premises would destroy or remove the evidence prior to warrant issuance.


• Hot Pursuit:
Continuing pursuit of a dangerous suspect in a serious offence.


• Prevent escape:
An individual fleeing from lawful police custody may be apprehended.


If the neighbor reported a "domestic dispute" and a "belligerent" person, a police officer has the duty to enter the residence to ensure that someone is not injured or facing serious boldily injury or death. If the dispute resulted in any type ofdomestic assault, a police officer must determine who the primary aggressor was and make an arrest (arrest required, no 2 ways about it). Your buddy simply got stroked with adisorderly conduct charge as he was, acting disorderly. Your second roommate is quite lucky that he didnt get hooked on Obstruction.

Cut your losses and move on.
 

xd.40

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ProShooter wrote:
I say your friend doesnt have a leg to stand on......

An officer can make a warrantless entry into a residence for:

• Rescue:
Rescue of someone in imminent threat of death or serious injury.


• Property damage:
There must be an imminent threat of substantial property damage.


• Public danger:
Includes dangerous hazards or instrumentalities.


• Destruction of evidence:
Prior to entry, officers must have probable cause to believe that evidence of a crime is on the premises and the officers are aware of specific facts which reasonably indicate the someone on the premises would destroy or remove the evidence prior to warrant issuance.


• Hot Pursuit:
Continuing pursuit of a dangerous suspect in a serious offence.


• Prevent escape:
An individual fleeing from lawful police custody may be apprehended.


If the neighbor reported a "domestic dispute" and a "belligerent" person, a police officer has the duty to enter the residence to ensure that someone is not injured or facing serious boldily injury or death. If the dispute resulted in any type ofdomestic assault, a police officer must determine who the primary aggressor was and make an arrest (arrest required, no 2 ways about it). Your buddy simply got stroked with adisorderly conduct charge as he was, acting disorderly. Your second roommate is quite lucky that he didnt get hooked on Obstruction.

Cut your losses and move on.
+1 - They don't need a warrant to check the welfare of a potential domestic dispute (which it actually was - 2 brothers living together is considered a domestic dispute). Sucks, I know, but like ProShooter said, cut your losses and move on...
 

Gray Peterson

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The last person made some interesting points, but may not be specifically applicable to this circumstance. First, remember that there's also such things as state constitutions that may restrict officers further than the federal constitution in this subject.

That being said, the 4th amendment in this case isn't a method of doing physical obstruction. If he stated to the Police Officer: I do not consent to a search of this premise, and repeatedly stated so, but DIDN'T physically obstruct, then he should not have been arrested. You don't want to EVER waive your rights by saying nothing.
 

ProShooter

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:
The last person made some interesting points, but may not be specifically applicable to this circumstance. First, remember that there's also such things as state constitutions that may restrict officers further than the federal constitution in this subject.

That being said, the 4th amendment in this case isn't a method of doing physical obstruction. If he stated to the Police Officer: I do not consent to a search of this premise, and repeatedly stated so, but DIDN'T physically obstruct, then he should not have been arrested. You don't want to EVER waive your rights by saying nothing.
Remember that no one was searching the premises, they were checking the welfare of a potentially injured person. You cannot block the door and refuse entry under those circumstances.
 

peter nap

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I agree with Proshooter, although I'm not sure why he's shouting. Anyway....welcome to modern urban life.

That's why I like the country, I can shout all I want. No one around except the bears.

I keep quiet when I come back to the burbs.

I don't understand why people block the cop, Doing that, you have 3 choices...move, get locked up or whip him/her.

It's much easier to turn the lock and quietly step outside. The cop won't break the door down unless he/she has a lot more than a guess to go on.

You don't go to jail because not having a key is NOT obstruction and assaulting an officer is a felony
 

Lysander

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xd.40 wrote:
+1 - They don't need a warrant to check the welfare of a potential domestic dispute (which it actually was - 2 brothers living together is considered a domestic dispute). Sucks, I know, but like ProShooter said, cut your losses and move on...


Statute? I haven't found it yet. (Then agtain, also busy ;) )

[sub]Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.[/sub]
 

Scheetz

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Well we are filing a complaint. My roommate is back now home. Said the female officer's partner talked of tazing him because he would not move from the door. He also said the female officer kept asking if she was in the right for arresting him because he would not move out of the doorway.

He was given Obstruction of Justice of an officer w/o threat or physical force.

We understand if a person is in harm they need entry. However, she tried to force her way through without saying a word. The LT asked first before entering telling us why he needed to come in. It appears the arresting officer is quite new, didnt know how to handle the situation and figured because she is a LEO we would make way for her entry without question.



And for why we blocked the cop. Because its my legal right in my residence, you want inyou can ask. But opening our door and charging in is not the way about it.
 

LEO 229

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Exigent Circumstances

If the police believe someone inside may be injured and needs help they can go in against your objections. Blocking them and demanding they produce "a warrant" will get you charged with obstruction.

If you think about it.... What if the neighbor called 911 after hearing you screaming whileunknown people were kicking your ass inside so they couldput up on YouTube....?

How would you feel aboutthe police being 20 feet from your rescue andforced to leave?

Read up on.....

Verez v Commonwealth 1985

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/2200032.pdf

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=va&vol=1517031&invol=1

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/1170063.txt
 

Scheetz

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LEO 229 wrote:
Exigent Circumstances

If the police believe someone inside may be injured and needs help they can go in against your objections. Blocking them and demanding they produce "a warrant" will get you charged with obstruction.

If you think about it.... What if the neighbor called 911 after hearing you screaming whileunknown people were kicking your ass inside so they couldput up on YouTube....?

How would you feel aboutthe police being 20 feet from your rescue andforced to leave?

Read up on.....

Verez v Commonwealth 1985

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/2200032.pdf

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=va&vol=1517031&invol=1

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/1170063.txt



I understand that. But when you try and make a forced entry are you going to say why you are? Or will you say nothing and try and run through a 6'7" guy standing in the doorway with his hands in his pockets. We never used an angry tone, we simply stated you need a warrant to come in and search. She never corrected us, nor did any of the other officers by saying someone is in harm we need entry. All she did was charge her way through. Grabbed my roommate and cuffed him.

It is still shitty police work. There was a far better way for her to go about gaining entry. Isnt that what is taught in the force. Cause I remember learning it, verbal commands first, then physical.
 

TheEggman

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Agreed all. They have the authority to make a cursory check on a Domestic Disturbance call. They can't open drawers, look in closets, etc, just make a check that everyone is OK.

Suggestions for future encounters with the police, or authority in general, whether or not they act like jerks or JBTs...

If an officer wants to arrest you for standing in your own front yard, be firm, polite and please, cooperate.

Be polite and cooperative, even when they blatantly violate your rights.

Depending on the quantity and quality of witnesses, there is a serious imbalance of power, with you, the citizen, generally being on the short end. The officer, right or wrong, has the power to make your life absolutely miserable, and in an 'at the scene' confrontation, you will lose.

Your best action is to remain quiet, speak only when spoken to, only give direct answers with no elaboration, take notes and be a good witness.

Even if an officer has absolutely no probable cause he can and often will ask if he may search your vehicle or come inside your home. He has the right to ask, it's his job.

You also have a right to politely refuse. Should he insist and search in spite of your polite and clear objections, don't get in his way.

AFTER the incident is over and adreneline and alcohol have dissipated is the time to start asserting your rights, writing letters, filing complaints, calling lawyers and pursuing other 'procedural' channels.

NEVER be a disrespectful jerk when sitting in the police officers office. (his car) Just as your being a jerk doesn't justify his being one, neither do his attitude and/or actions justify you being one either. When the smoke clears you want it to be obvious that YOU were the one who remained on the high ground.

ALWAYS follow through with appropriate action if your rights have truly been violated.
 

ProShooter

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Lysander wrote:
xd.40 wrote:
+1 - They don't need a warrant to check the welfare of a potential domestic dispute (which it actually was - 2 brothers living together is considered a domestic dispute). Sucks, I know, but like ProShooter said, cut your losses and move on...


Statute? I haven't found it yet. (Then agtain, also busy ;) )

[suB]Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.[/suB]


Lysander - it isnt in a statute, its case law
 

LEO 229

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Scheetz wrote:
I understand that. But when you try and make a forced entry are you going to say why you are? Or will you say nothing and try and run through a 6'7" guy standing in the doorway with his hands in his pockets. We never used an angry tone, we simply stated you need a warrant to come in and search. She never corrected us, nor did any of the other officers by saying someone is in harm we need entry. All she did was charge her way through. Grabbed my roommate and cuffed him.

It is still shitty police work. There was a far better way for her to go about gaining entry. Isnt that what is taught in the force. Cause I remember learning it, verbal commands first, then physical.
Sorry... This is not a debate at the front door. They do not have to explain everything to you at that moment. Even if she had... I am confidentyou still would have demanded a warrant and wanted proof of what she was telling you. This would delay her entry and delay medical aid to anyone needing it.

If they are forcing their way in they probably have a good reason. You can always sue them later if they were wrong. You had nothing to hide, right? No drug lab, not providing alcohol tounderage girls.

The LT was only being nice since they had already made entry and get a quick look seeing nothing obvious. You can still see he needed to check on everyone.
 

ProShooter

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LEO 229 wrote:
Scheetz wrote:
I understand that. But when you try and make a forced entry are you going to say why you are? Or will you say nothing and try and run through a 6'7" guy standing in the doorway with his hands in his pockets. We never used an angry tone, we simply stated you need a warrant to come in and search. She never corrected us, nor did any of the other officers by saying someone is in harm we need entry. All she did was charge her way through. Grabbed my roommate and cuffed him.

It is still shitty police work. There was a far better way for her to go about gaining entry. Isnt that what is taught in the force. Cause I remember learning it, verbal commands first, then physical.
Sorry... This is not a debate at the front door. They do not have to explain everything to you at that moment. Even if she had... I am confidentyou still would have demanded a warrant and wanted proof of what she was telling you. This would delay her entry and delay medical aid to anyone needing it.

If they are forcing their way in they probably have a good reason. You can always sue them later if they were wrong. You had nothing to hide, right? No drug lab, not providing alcohol tounderage girls.

The LT was only being nice since they had already made entry and get a quick look seeing nothing obvious. You can still see he needed to check on everyone.
++1 Absolutely agree with this!
 
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