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Thread: One nation under guns: How America has gone mad

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    From Independent Weekly, a "Progressive News, Culture & Commentary For Raleigh, Durham & Chapel Hill":

    In the London Times, under the headline "The United States of America has gone mad," the British novelist John le Carré began his modest polemic, "America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember."

    Perhaps I've found it. On this first anniversary of the massacre at Virginia Tech (April 16), I'd like to quote part of a recent Letter to the Editor from a man who identifies himself as "a gun owner, a shooting sports enthusiast and a National Rifle Association member." He actually signs his name, though I'm not reckless enough to pass it along and engage him directly. The occasion of his letter was the mindless murder of Eve Carson, president of the University of North Carolina student body, by a pair of habitual criminals with handguns.

    "Don't blame me or the NRA," the sports enthusiast begins. "When a person drives a car through a group of people to do them harm, do people automatically call for the banning of the manufacturer's autos? When a person uses any other kind of tool to do harm to fellow humans, is there a call to banish these tools?

    Your handgun is a tool, all right. It's the perfect tool—the only easily acquired, easily transported, easily concealed tool—for turning sick minds into killing machines, domestic disputes into rows of tombstones, petty larceny into homicide, neglected teenagers into executioners. This is of course the only country with any claim to civilization where every certified madman and violent felon is welcome to all the firepower he can afford, where in fact it's almost guaranteed that he will acquire it.

    "If we can't protect our children, what good are we?" asked Richard L. Canas, the Homeland Security official in charge of school lockdowns in New Jersey. Not much, is my reply. As long as we indulge a minority of armed bullies whose model for America is Dodge City, we're all as crazy as they are. Reversing T.S. Eliot, this is the way our world ends, not with a whimper but a bang.
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    Right, and if we could all just get along, sit by the campfire and sign koom- by-ya, we'd all be better off. Just let your next mugger know that.

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    DopaVash wrote:
    Right, and if we could all just get along, sit by the campfire and sign koom- by-ya, we'd all be better off. Just let your next mugger know that.
    And maybe you could give him a hug and he will stop beating you!

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    Posted:
    When you're stuck on the subway and some Jihadist opens up his coat to reveal a vest full of explosives, and starts saying "There is only one God, His name is Allah and Mohamed is his..." would you rather be reaching for your cell phone, sheltering your family from the inevitable, or reaching for your gun?

    Guns don't kill people. People are the problem. Punish criminals, stop handing out shorter sentences, and focus on rehabilitation. Disarming the people that obey the law will not stop crime. It's funny that the people that know nothing about guns and nothing about crime act as though they are experts on gun-crime. Disarming me won't help you. Arming yourself might.

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    shamalama wrote:
    From Independent Weekly, a "Progressive News, Culture & Commentary For Raleigh, Durham & Chapel Hill":

    In the London Times, under the headline "The United States of America has gone mad," the British novelist John le Carré began his modest polemic,
    "America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember."
    We are nowhere near a period of historical madness, but even if we were, London has had more than it's share of disturbing periods throughout history.The hipocrisy is astounding.
    Your handgun is a tool, all right. It's the perfect tool—the only easily acquired, easily transported, easily concealed tool—for turning sick minds into killing machines, domestic disputes into rows of tombstones, petty larceny into homicide, neglected teenagers into executioners. This is of course the only country with any claim to civilization where every certified madman and violent felon is welcome to all the firepower he can afford, where in fact it's almost guaranteed that he will acquire it.
    Ahh, an age old emotional diatribe by the senseless and uninformed. Kinda comical, actually. The tool turns us into something we wouldn't normally be without the access to it... Oh, my... It gets old and it never seems to stop..
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Thats a good point, Flinntlock. Also look at the Crime rates in England these days since before their own gun ban. STAGGERING and steadily rising. Absolutely rediculous.

    The NRA published this video about it.
    youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec

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    The British, and the Europeans', concept of society and civilization proves them to be a bunch of arrogant elitist bullies who tend to view America as that bastard child who just got lucky when it evolved the most powerful economic and military machine in history. They would like to put us back into the geni lantern and close the top until we are needed for bail out purposes sometime in the future.

    Do they not remember history? Do they not know why Nazi Germany, with a smaller military, was able to overrun France in 6 weeks?

    If you happen to run across some snobbish Brit or Frenchman or German of whatever, ask them this simple little question.

    In the final moments of your life when you are seconds away from being propelled into the eternal darkness by your killer, which would you rather have in you hand? A cell phone or a handgun?

    If you can tie them down from rambiling on about "no one should have guns" or some other sheer nonsense and force them to answer the question, I guarantee it should be fun. Substitute "you", and its derivatives, with "your child". That should shake their tree.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Well, he is right, violent felons can acquire firearms easily.

    But it is illegal and there are laws against it. So I really don't understand his issue. He he removed his head from his ass and thought about it for more than a second he'd realize that. But these people are blind idiots that discredit anyone that doesn't follow lock step with their beliefs.

    I wish I lived in a world where I didn't need to protect myself - I really do. But in his fantasty land people are good and great and bad things don't happen.

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    Flintlock wrote:
    shamalama wrote:
    Your handgun is a tool, all right. It's the perfect tool—the only easily acquired, easily transported, easily concealed tool—for turning sick minds into killing machines, domestic disputes into rows of tombstones, petty larceny into homicide, neglected teenagers into executioners. This is of course the only country with any claim to civilization where every certified madman and violent felon is welcome to all the firepower he can afford, where in fact it's almost guaranteed that he will acquire it.
    Ahh, an age old emotional diatribe by the senseless and uninformed. Kinda comical, actually. The tool turns us into something we wouldn't normally be without the access to it... Oh, my... It gets old and it never seems to stop..
    Not to play devil's advocate or anything, but I don't think it was the intention of the author to infer that a gun turns you into something you're not. It's an inconvenient truth that a gun is a very mobile, easy to use weapon. You don't have to confront your victim on the street or sidewalk like with a car, you are more likely to survive the preparation and encounter than with a bomb, and you don't need weeks of training to use one effectively, like a knife or other close-combat weapon.

    In the absence of a gun, your ability to kill specifically and efficiently, while surviving the initial encounter, is reduced. That's why us law-abiding citizens carry them; we don't want to face anyone intent on doing us harm with anything less, regardless of the weapon the other guy has. There is unfortunately the other side of the coin; A BG can use a gun very effectively and quickly to deal death to innocents at a distance, often before anyone else with a gun can stop him.

    His point may be valid, but the conclusion is still a non sequitur. You will never be able to completely remove guns from society. You will only succeed in removing them from lawful society. However difficult it becomes to get guns illegally, it will still be possible, thus criminals will still be able to do bad things to good people.

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    This idea of living in a "safe" society and removing guns and such may be all well and good, however there is this. Many of us just love the things. We love to collect them, to hold them, to shoot them, and to own them. Were we to remove guns from society, what then do we say to folks like that? (of which I am most certainly one)


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Meh...there's no arguing with these fools. They base their arguments purely on emotional sentiment, and there's no talking sense into folks like that.

    It is encouraging to read about how strong the pro-gun lobby is...filtering out the drivel gave me a headache though.

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    Says Crowther:
    This is of course the only country with any claim to civilization where every certified madman and violent felon is welcome to all the firepower he can afford, [...]
    That's just patently untrue; we all know federal and state laws prohibit convicted felons and those adjudicated to be mentally defective from possessing a firearm, and prohibit everyone else from providing such an individual with one. And that sentence is representative of the entire piece.

    Another note:
    I'm compelled to obey a personal ban on firearms drafted and ratified by my wife. A few years ago one of the local idiots made me so angry she was afraid I'd kill him, so she decreed that I was too unstable to own a gun. I salve my security paranoia by sharing my house and my life with very large dogs.
    Oh, that's a major improvement! Over a million people are injured in attacks by household dogs every year in the United States, and even though "only" 20 or so of those attacks are fatal, many result in permanent disfigurement. Between 60 and 70% of the victims are children (actual children, not "children" up to 24 years old like you find in Brady Campaign statistics on how many children are supposedly killed by guns), so they may be scarred, both physically and mentally, for life. Approximately 50% of household dogs are not vaccinated against rabies, in spite of the fact that every single state requires them to be, and as a result, dogs remain the primary vector for rabies infection in humans. And unlike guns, dogs can go off by themselves.

    So should we ban dogs? Obviously we'd all be safer if we did. I'll admit I'm not a dog lover, and as the parent of a toddler, I'm wary of having them around my child, but to my mind, the problem with dogs is irresponsible owners, not the dogs themselves. Why should we penalize the millions of Americans who can and do keep their dogs in responsible fashion, and whose lives are greatly enriched as a result, because of the idiots who can't?

    And why does that question sound familiar?

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    I didn't find the story that I was looking for, about a man that was recently beaten to death in England while trying to protect his son from a gang of youths. However, I was surprised about the articles that I did find about murder by SHOOTINGS and beatings in England. They must betypos or reporting errors, since guns are illegal there.

    A 17-year-old boy has been charged with the murder of 11-year-old Liverpool schoolboy Rhys Jones who was shot as he walked home from playing football.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7351448.stm

    Three teenagers have been sentenced for beating a man to death after he refused to give them a light.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/4818106.stm

    A 16-year-old boy was chased into a South London housing estate and shot dead by a group of bandana-wearing youths on bicycles today, in the latest in a string of gang-related killings in the capital

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2145351.ece



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