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Thread: Police departments responding to B/E's

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    If the caller is home and reporting someone breaking in they can stay armed.

    When the police arrive is when you find out what room the caller is in,what they are wearing, andmake the caller aware that the police are making entry or to have the caller run outside.

    People that break in are not normally interested in causing harm to the occupants. They want to takeproperty and sometimes make entry thinking the home is empty.

    There are rare occasions when someone may break in to cause intentional harm like ex lovers, stalkers, or rapists.

    There is not need to disarm the homeowner while the police respond.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    If the caller is home and reporting someone breaking in they can stay armed.

    When the police arrive is when you find out what room the caller is in,what they are wearing, andmake the caller aware that the police are making entry or to have the caller run outside.

    People that break in are not normally interested in causing harm to the occupants. They want to takeproperty and sometimes make entry thinking the home is empty.

    There are rare occasions when someone may break in to cause intentional harm like ex lovers, stalkers, or rapists.

    There is not need to disarm the homeowner while the police respond.

    Some gang types enjoy harming the occupants.

    Anyway, last time I called the cops because of a shooting in my apartment complex*, I told the operator that we were armed. She told me to put the guns away. I told her no,so she told me that when the officers come to the door, put the guns away before opening the door. I agreed to that.

    You don't have to obey the operator. Whenever dealing with the police "Just say no". Remember that they are far more concerned with officer safety than they are with your safety.


    *long time ago, I don't live there anymore.

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    Why so down on LEO?

    I've heard some of them are just as confused and unsure about OC and CC laws as everyone else.

    even for LEO, different laws and rules on CC and OC by town or county. at-least here in Florida.

    Sites like this, and open discussions are really helpful, let's educate, not alienate.

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    jack wrote:
    Exactly ! Just say NO !

    Ignore the police ! Don't even call them until the intruder is down ( 3 shot minimum) an your attorney is in route.



    Never take advise from a cop.
    I take it, based on your positions in prior posts, that this is meant to be either sarcasm or trolling.

    Just ignore it people. Don't take the bait.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    jack wrote:
    Exactly ! Just say NO !

    Ignore the police ! Don't even call them until the intruder is down ( 3 shot minimum) an your attorney is in route.



    Never take advise from a cop.
    I take it, based on your positions in prior posts, that this is meant to be either sarcasm or trolling.

    Just ignore it people. Don't take the bait.
    True.... to advise someone to "ignore" the police is bad advice.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    jack wrote:
    Exactly ! Just say NO !

    Ignore the police ! Don't even call them until the intruder is down ( 3 shot minimum) an your attorney is in route.



    Never take advise from a cop.
    I take it, based on your positions in prior posts, that this is meant to be either sarcasm or trolling.

    Just ignore it people. Don't take the bait.
    True.... to advise someone to "ignore" the police is bad advice.
    I don't know why Jack is agreeing with me that we should ignore the police. I didn't say to ignore the police. I said that you don't have to do what the operator tells you, and that you should freely exercize your best judgement, not listen to advice from someone that isn't even there and is more concerned with officer safety than your safety. There is nothing wrong with saying "no" to the things that you are allowed to say no to. That doesn't mean ignore the police, it means use your best judgement.

    As for "Never take advise from a cop", I can sort of agree. A cop is not your lawyer, and you shouldn't be asking him for legal advice. I wouldn't go as far as to say "never take advise from a cop", but I would agree that you shouldn't ask a cop for legal advice, and that you can better assess your need to be armed than a 911 operator can. That doesn't by any meanssuggest thatyou should never comply with a police officer'srequest. 99% of the time you should. But if you don't feel that it is correct, just say "no".


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    expvideo wrote:
    I don't know why Jack is agreeing with me that we should ignore the police. I didn't say to ignore the police. I said that you don't have to do what the operator tells you, and that you should freely exercize your best judgement, not listen to advice from someone that isn't even there and is more concerned with officer safety than your safety. There is nothing wrong with saying "no" to the things that you are allowed to say no to. That doesn't mean ignore the police, it means use your best judgement.

    As for "Never take advise from a cop", I can sort of agree. A cop is not your lawyer, and you shouldn't be asking him for legal advice. I wouldn't go as far as to say "never take advise from a cop", but I would agree that you shouldn't ask a cop for legal advice, and that you can better assess your need to be armed than a 911 operator can. That doesn't by any meanssuggest thatyou should never comply with a police officer'srequest. 99% of the time you should. But if you don't feel that it is correct, just say "no".
    I got what you said and I would agree... the call taker is only suggesting you do something to be sure you and the police will be safe when the police arrive. They do not know you or what your level of intelligence is.

    Nothing worse than the police making entry and seeing a gun in their face and shooting only to find out it was the caller. This is the big push for you to not be armed when they get there.

    As far as taking advise from cops... they do not give "legal" advice and actually make "recommendations" or give their "opinion"that you can use in your own decision making process.

    I do this often when I go on calls. I tell the person what could happen or will happen and the possible outcomes I have seen in my experience. The person can then decide if they want to take a certain action they are considering.

    But for someone to just tell people to ignore cops and not take their advice without some justification is done in poor taste.


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    nitrovic wrote:
    A lot of police departments tell people who are reporting "B/E's" to "put the gun away" when the officers are responding (obviously in these cases the homeowners are armed. Most of the time it is a stay at home mom who heard a glass break downstairs etc). I used to get pissed at this because while I understand the police don't want their officers "accidentally" shot by the homeowners, if the homeowner does put the gun away and gets killed by the intruder than that would be on the hands of the police for telling the homeowner to put the gun away. I don't know if some of you were aware of this going on, but just fyi, it does. I told my wife to keep the gun in her possession and just lock the bedroom door (or whatever room she is in). Sorry about the rant, I just thought about this after reading some of the "why we carry" posts. It was always a pet peeve of mine.
    A monkey wrench if I may.....The homeowner gets killed, who's to know the police dispatcher/operator told the homeowner to put the gun away? Will the family ask for the tapes? Maybe, maybe not. I suppose it depends on the exact situation and how smart the family and their lawyer are when it comes to guns and the police.

    Sort of like, if a tree falls in the woods, does it still make a sound? How do you know?

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    jack wrote:
    ...In this type of situation listening to a 911 call operator (that in some areas has about as much training as aPizza Hutorder taker) can get you killed. ...

    ...Don't be bullied by folks from the bottom 15% of your high school graduating class. Nothing has changed fromkindergarten they are still bullies, they just now have a badge and a gun (you have a gun too hopefully)....
    I agree with most of what you said, but these are just imature and completely uneducated statements that discredit everything else you have to say. If you have something to articulate about police, go ahead, but this is just name calling and insulting a whole group of people, and frankly you are just making this stuff up.

    In other words, you sound like a babbling ******* right now, and I think you owe the LEOs and former LEOs on this board an appology.

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    jack wrote:
    BOTTOM LINE: YOU are responsible for your own security. In this type of situation listening to a 911 call operator (that in some areas has about as much training as aPizza Hutorder taker) can get you killed.

    Another example is the cop at the World Trade center that was holding his hands out like a safety patrol and telling everyone to go back in the building. A lot of people died because they deferred to a uniform, without stopping to think thatwhat he was telling them could BE WRONG.

    You never have to legally take advise from a cop.

    A lawful order has to have law behind it.

    I hear time and time again guys calling up to get Legal advice from the police concerning open carry, most copsdon't know or intentionally LIE.

    Recently someone posted that they called their local sheriff office to see if open carry is "accepted" by law enforcement in that area. The poster understood that it's legal but felt the need to get the police opinion on the matter. Folks that is ignorant. Who cares what they think, the State legislature makes laws not the high school graduates thatgo into local law enforcement.Ignore the police and carry, protect yourself and think for yourself.

    You never have to do what they say unlessthey have reasonable articulable suspicion,probable cause, a search warrantor have placed you under arrest. Don't be bullied by folks from the bottom 15% of your high school graduating class. Nothing has changed fromkindergarten they are still bullies, they just now have a badge and a gun (you have a gun too hopefully).

    If they don't have any of the above keep walking ! Don't open the door of your home to law enforcement unless they have announced they have a warrant. Talk to them through the door and demand to know why they are there.

    You never have to speak with the police, including traffic stops/ DWI checkpoints. Hand over your licence, registration and proof of insurance and Exercise your RIGHT to remain silent. The police aren't necessarily your enemybut theyaren't your friend either.

    Toanswer your question, NO I DO DON'T TRUST or cooperate with law enforcement where it is not legally required. As a law abiding business owner with no tickets in 15 years andno criminal record,I have been harassed by cops too many times to trust or RESPECT THEM. In my book most are the scum of the earth.
    Jack........Its OK.

    Sit down and take a deep breath.



    Its not your fault.......Maybe they will let you into the Police academy next time you apply.

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    There was a break-in at my house once, and some scumbags made off with my brother's guns. I had returned from a short trip to the store and the back door was left open. That never happens. I ran in the house and grabbed a knife (didn't carry guns back then) and went to the phone to call the cops. The dispatcher told me to wait outside, since I wasn't able to say whether the perps had left yet or not. I did, and when the cops showed up (about 1 minute), they drew their guns and took me in the house with them, which I'm sure is not proper procedure. I reminded them not to shoot me accidentally and we all swept the house - me still having the knife out.

    Nobody was there, and my brother's stuff was mostly gone. We cataloged the loss and filed a report, and the cops were going "jesus... jesus..." as we listed several "assault rifles" among the haul. They ran in the usual suspects on some lame pretext and recovered a single gun, as I recall. They got busted for receiving stolen property anyway.

    The insurance paid off my brother for his loss, and my guns were not stolen (I had them cleverly hidden in the house), so not a total loss. Still, the whole thing was kind of surreal, not least the response.

    -ljp

    p.s. "pretext" is one word, since you broached the subject of grammar and spelling.

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    jack wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    jack wrote:
    ...In this type of situation listening to a 911 call operator (that in some areas has about as much training as aPizza Hutorder taker) can get you killed. ...

    ...Don't be bullied by folks from the bottom 15% of your high school graduating class. Nothing has changed fromkindergarten they are still bullies, they just now have a badge and a gun (you have a gun too hopefully)....
    I agree with most of what you said, but these are just imature and completely uneducated statements that discredit everything else you have to say. If you have something to articulate about police, go ahead, but this is just name calling and insulting a whole group of people, and frankly you are just making this stuff up.

    In other words, you sound like a babbling ******* right now, and I think you owe the LEOs and former LEOs on this board an appology.
    Sorry that offended you but I was commenting about the bottom 15% of the class not the bottom 5%, so you should be offended.
    There is a spell check function above however since you haven't been able to master it:

    imature...... The correct spelling isimmature

    appology.....The correct spelling is apology

    I will happily apologize and change my views on the police when they stop harassing law abiding citizens for open carrying and targeting African Americans for pre-text traffic stops. Walk around as a black man for one day and your views of the police (KKK with a badge) would change.

    Good luck finishing your GED, I hope the spelling lesson helps.
    Thank you for the spelling lesson. Now I'll give you a reading lesson. I said "I agree with most of what you said, but these are just ..." Notice that the statements I cut are not your final statement. I share the same feelings from experience about law enforcement. You're a condiscending, racist jerk. You think I can walk down the street without being harrassed by the police because I'm white? You've been brainwashed. They treat me just as bad as they treat you. I've been arrested and convicted of things that aren't even crimes, and I've had several police officers flat out lie in their police reports, not to mention one that flat out lied in court to get a conviction. I've been raped by the system WAY more than you, so stop being such a damn prejudist ass. I don't pity you one bit, so don't try to use the race card to make yourself look like you have it any harder than me. You haven't seen ****.

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    Sa45auto wrote:
    Jack........Its OK.

    Sit down and take a deep breath.

    Its not your fault.......Maybe they will let you into the Police academy next time you apply.
    OK.. someone please call 911 because Sa45Auto is KILLING me!!

    That was a good one! But let's try not to pick on Jack... he is just overly frustrated at this point in his life.

    Jack seems to be hell bent on making sure the "sheeple" know they do not have to listen to po-po unless it fits a certain criteria. I can appreciate that.

    Ifyou are old enough to carry a gun you are hopefully old enough to make your own decisions and not have to take advice from some guy on the Internet. I have seen some real bad advice given on here too.

    Jack is now the one forcing his advice on the people.... Sure you not a cop? :P


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    Well Jack, I'm not going to be near a computer for the rest of the day, and since this will probably be locked by the next time I have a chance to respond to your comments, I'll just let it go. You win, ok? I'm an idiot that shouldn't have graduated high school, and you are more oppressed than me because you are black, and no one could ever have experienced the horrifying traffic stops that you have. My false arrests, assault, false imprisonment, false testimony, false reports and false convictions by the police are nothing compared to that. In fact, I walk around on rainbows admiring how fair and just the world is because I am white. So we don't have to argue about this anymore.

    Let me make this as clear as possible:

    Me = Ignorant and stupid
    You = Oppressed and mentally superior


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    jack wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    jack wrote:
    ...In this type of situation listening to a 911 call operator (that in some areas has about as much training as aPizza Hutorder taker) can get you killed. ...

    ...Don't be bullied by folks from the bottom 15% of your high school graduating class. Nothing has changed fromkindergarten they are still bullies, they just now have a badge and a gun (you have a gun too hopefully)....
    I agree with most of what you said, but these are just imature and completely uneducated statements that discredit everything else you have to say. If you have something to articulate about police, go ahead, but this is just name calling and insulting a whole group of people, and frankly you are just making this stuff up.

    In other words, you sound like a babbling ******* right now, and I think you owe the LEOs and former LEOs on this board an appology.
    Sorry that offended you but I was commenting about the bottom 15% of the class not the bottom 5%, so you should be offended.
    There is a spell check function above however since you haven't been able to master it:

    imature...... The correct spelling isimmature

    appology.....The correct spelling is apology

    I will happily apologize and change my views on the police when they stop harassing law abiding citizens for open carrying and targeting African Americans for pre-text traffic stops. Walk around as a black man for one day and your views of the police (KKK with a badge) would change.

    Good luck finishing your GED, I hope the spelling lesson helps.
    First you belittle the all police and accuse them of racial profiling and harassment.

    Now you belittle a forum member who does not spell as well as you. My spelling and grammar sucks too so feel free to attack that when you have no valid arguments and wish to deflect or divert attention from a valid statement.

    And "Pretext" is in fact one word so it looks like you are no better and not so perfect. Please do not throw stones in glass houses.

    Jack, there are many people that dislike and/or distrust cops as much as you do. I hope that is not why you are here. There are other forums that would love you as a member soplease limit your bantering here and keep it relevant.

    But now we have gone off topic...

    Let's get back to the topic at hand please....



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    LEO 229 wrote:

    I got what you said and I would agree... the call taker is only suggesting you do something to be sure you and the police will be safe when the police arrive. They do not know you or what your level of intelligence is.

    Nothing worse than the police making entry and seeing a gun in their face and shooting only to find out it was the caller. This is the big push for you to not be armed when they get there.

    As far as taking advise from cops... they do not give "legal" advice and actually make "recommendations" or give their "opinion"that you can use in your own decision making process.

    I do this often when I go on calls. I tell the person what could happen or will happen and the possible outcomes I have seen in my experience. The person can then decide if they want to take a certain action they are considering.

    But for someone to just tell people to ignore cops and not take their advice without some justification is done in poor taste.
    This falls into the catagory of good advice.

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    nitrovic wrote:
    jack wrote:
    Exactly ! Just say NO !

    Ignore the police ! Don't even call them until the intruder is down ( 3 shot minimum) an your attorney is in route.



    Never take advise from a cop.
    This is the type of dangerous advice that will get some good citizen put away for manslaughter. "Just say no" to posting Jack, you are insane and ignorant.
    Manslaughter ? What ********, I said intruder. In most States you can use deadly force againstsomeone that has broken into your home.

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