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lies and stretching the truth

G

glocknroll

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Hampton, Virginia, USA
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Tess wrote:
I noticed one of the clips in the most recent VCDL-Alert about the PEG lie-in noted a change in wording.

This time, instead of saying three minutes is the time it takes to buy a gun, the reporter said three minutes is the average amount of time it takes to do a background check. Again, I dispute the accuracy of the claim, but the analyst in me notes the wording change and the importance of said change.

They've claimed several things in these lie-ins:
- Three minutes is the time it took Cho to buy a gun (apparently that was proven wrong)
- Three minutes is the average time it takes to buy a gun in America (perhaps they've seen the light here?)
- Now, three minutes is the aveage time it takes for the background check. I might grant that IF you don't start the clock until the phone is answered and the information from your paperwork and ID transferred, or the internet connection is made.

Reporters often get their information from fact sheets provided by the groups they're highlighting. It appears we need to be prepared with actual facts against all these nuances, just in case.

I don't know why, but my checks usually return clear within that time frame, if you count only from the actual connection. I'm aware many, many people are not cleared within just a few minutes, and I hope to learn through research what the actual time is.
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I heard the 'It only took Cho 3 minutes to buy his guns' BS on NPR the morning of the 16th on the way home from work, so they continue to spread this lie, and people continue to believe it.
 
pourshot

pourshot

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Neplusultra wrote:
That would be more true. Still, the amount of time it takes to buy a gun is irrelevant. It's what you do with it afterwards and gun registration will not help that issue at all.
Click to expand...

I concur with "the takes to buy a gun is irrelevant."



But I am not sure what you mean by the gun registration.
 
Neplusultra

Neplusultra

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Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
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Tomahawk wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
Still, the amount of time it takes to buy a gun is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Unless you're worried about your roid-raging ex-husband who likes to ignore his court order and stalks you.
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Of course you're right. I was thinking in terms of the PEGer's using 3 minutes as a point of evidence. In reality with computerized criminal systems it shouldn't even take that long :^).
 
Neplusultra

Neplusultra

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pourshot wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
That would be more true. Still, the amount of time it takes to buy a gun is irrelevant. It's what you do with it afterwards and gun registration will not help that issue at all.
Click to expand...

I concur with "the takes to buy a gun is irrelevant."



But I am not sure what you mean by the gun registration.
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I wrote a fairly detailed argument about this somewhere on this forum. The idea in a nutshell is that the PEGers want all gun sales, including private ones, to go through a NICS background check. This law has to be enforced which means there has to be a criminal penalty for failure, ie jail time. You would need to prove that you did a check at the time of sale so a record must be kept, in effect for ever. That's gun registration. In effect everyone becomes a federal gun dealer. Gun dealers must keep records of all their sales and when they close shop they must turn these records over to the ATF. What if you loose your record and the gun you sold is used in a crime? You go to jail.
 
T

Tomahawk

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Not to mention that we're never more than a legislative action away from turning the NICS into a registration device. Not even; a zealous president who likes to use all the nifty powers Bush has given her could do it with an executive order.

And unless you are a sys admin for NICS, for all you know, all your purchases are stored on a server somewhere despite the law.

And don't forget that the 4473's you filled out will eventually be in possession of the BATFE one way or the other anyway. Call it delayed-action registration.
 
C

CajunBass

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Chancelorsville, Virginia, USA
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Generally it takes me 20 minutes to an hour to buy a gun. I have a fairly common name. It takes my wife about 5 minutes. Same last name, but fewer women I suppose.

I have noticed that it has taken less time the more guns I buy. I've bought a half dozen or so in the last few months. The last one took less time than it took me to walk to restroom and come back, so buy more guns.
 
VAopencarry

VAopencarry

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You either go 'straight through' and get Approved, or you don't. Once the info is submitted the Approval takes a few seconds. If you do not get an immediate approval the length of time of your wait is mostly dependent on how busy/lazy/under staffed they are at the FTC in Richmond.

It may take 15 minutes one time and the next 2 hours.

how long would you estimate that the average gun purchase takes from the time the buyer says "I want that one" to the time they are able to walk out the door??
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Excluding people that get Delayed, about 15-20 minutes.

Using a CHP as a 2d ID will not help it go any faster. SSN can be helpful depending on the reason you are Delayed.

If you want to know why you get delayed. Call the transaction center next time you get delayed.
 
A

alnitak

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Potomac Falls, Virginia, USA
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I have a CHP, and the last time I bought at a gun show, it took three hours for the approval to come back. It has never been less than an hour, and always requires a call back. Guess that's what happens with a last name like "Johnson."
 
L

Lysander

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Neplusultra wrote:
I must have a really unusual name or come from a low-crime lineage because the NICS part usually only takes a few minutes it seems. But if you're name is "Smith" or some such I could imagine it taking longer.
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VAopencarry wrote:
You either go 'straight through' and get Approved, or you don't. Once the info is submitted the Approval takes a few seconds. If you do not get an immediate approval the length of time of your wait is mostly dependent on how busy/lazy/under staffed they are at the FTC in Richmond.

It may take 15 minutes one time and the next 2 hours.
Click to expand...
My girlfriend's last name *is* Smith. We both bought on the same day - I took the 15 minutes, she took about an hour or so. Dangerous on the wallet, it is, having all that extra time there for the "Oh, yea, well, as long as we're still here, I might as well also get this-and-that." (Yes, I received a glare on the "we're still here" part. :celebrate )
 
deepdiver

deepdiver

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I do not have a particularly common name. Once I finish the 4473 and give it to the FFL, and the FFL gets logged onto the computer or gets through on the phone, and the FFL finally gets the information entered into NICS, yes, we usually have an ok within 2-5 minutes. Last firearm I bought the FFL did it online and had an ok in probably about 30 seconds. So yeah, I'll buy that the NICS part of Cho's purchase took 3 minutes following the entering of all the information until the ok.

And that proves what? That is valuable to anybody's argument how?
 
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