CA - The rifle was ready, thankfully was not needed

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First off, I'd like to say a big thank you to the BobCav and jpierce for the assistance I'd also like to thank Sa45auto for the later replies, especially the welcome. I know how it can be on other forums (heck even at work) when a discussion between friends gets animated - and yeah,I've had a few "animateddiscussions" with my brother and sister, too ! Of course, a big thank you to all the rest who posted kind words and welcomes, too.

Like I've said before, I apologize for ruffling feathers and such, it was not my intention to do so and after a nice PM exchange with BobCav and reading some of the later posts, I can understand where the suspicion comes from.

I figure I should also tell you all what prompted this post in the first place as it might help with understanding. There's anothe post (Tomahawk wrote what I consider to be a great post about what is posted on the internet:

Fact is, you can never tell if any given forum member is a complete phony. For all you guys know, I could be some super secret service agent from MI6 with a double-oh number, or whatever.

The mods can get my IP and figure out where I usually post from, and some of you have met me in person, but what does that really tell you? And those of you who haven't even met me don't know nuthin'.

So if I come on here and tell some BS story, maybe it's true and maybe it's not. Without a police report there's no way for you to tell one way or the other.

So any story you hear only on the net should be treated as a hypothetical.

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I would have to agree with him here. As this relates to my story, I'll stand by it, but it's definitely up to the reader to believe it or not although I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt

Thanks again guys (and gals?) and I'll see ya all around the boards !

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nitrovic wrote:

Parrothead wrote:
Over on F-16.net, we get our fair share of newbies who come out and in their first post either say that the F-16 sucks, the F-22 sucks, or that America sucks in which case we ask them to back it up or will counter their arguments with facts.


You'll get the same here. Some here think America sucks, cops suck, gov't sucks, wear tinfoil on your head because "they" are spying on us, blah blah blah. Welcome though, and good luck....:banghead:

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No real response, just wanted to make sure yourwords were quoted so you couldn't delete them later as has been done so many times in the past. (posters remorse?) For someone that has such a dislike for so manymembers and topics of this forum and is quite theantagonist in the true sense of the word, you sure do hang around here a lot and have a lot to say...then delete it. What's thatall about?




Parrothead, a tin foil hat is not required unless you really prefer it. I DO recommend a couple rolls of duct tape to keep your head from exploding when you read some posts from some members. You'll see "DUCT TAPE ALERT" every now and then.

The forum is really quite self-moderating and we like it that way and only really intervene when things get out of control. Do things get heated? You betcha! And we love it as long as it remains respectful.

While we can't possibly catch everything, we don't allow anti-LEO or anti government posts. Posting on an incident where you think the LEO may have done wrong, or could have done better is not Anti-LEO, but again there are those that will label you and profile you anyway.

Bottom line is thatpostsmade anywhere on the internet are archived all over the WWW in a matter of seconds(check out the Wayback Machine sometime! Really cool stuff from many years ago)and we're not responsible for your words, nor do we condone those behaviors or activities.

Anything youpost anywhere on the web can and will be used against you if an when necessary and it has happened to folks on other gun forums already. We get the occasionalanti-government types here and they don't last long. To be certain almost every pro-gun forum has been and is scrutinized by BATF, DOJ, TSA and/or DHS and many have openly stated their records show hits from those very govt computer systems.But relax,they're not looking for disgruntled citizens or everyone alive would be suspect. They know what fits the profile and they're very good at finding it.They're looking for those that meet certain profiles like this wackjob: http://www.youtube.com/user/biosbasher

We also have our share of antagonists who when cornered with the truth only attempt to discredit OCDO with complete lies and falsifications. We've dealt with so many of them in the past it isn't funny. We get thosewhoposthypothetical scenarios, news articles and other provokingitems simply to test our responses and then are never satisfied with any response.Should just one member then have a negative response they classify the whole forum as anti-this or anti-that and it merely serves tojustify their hatred and fear of us. The only answer is to ignore them.

One thing you'll notice fast is that OC is a HUGE hypocrite detector! It consistently and quite efficientlydraws outthose that either don't know the law orignore it in favor of their own opinion or political agenda.Be it an Anti, apoor government official that ignores the laws,new LEO or one that justdoesn't know the law regarding OC, one that may be a bit badge-heavy, oreven some CC'ers that are violently against OC, it most certainly detects them all.For the life of me,I can't understandwho could possibly be threatened by a responsible citizen that knows the law and takes responsibility for themselves? Isn't that what we're all supposed to strive to be?

Those that abuse their authority and position are most certainly the super minority, the real exception, but as OC'ers we tend to find them faster and more often than otherwise possible.It's just how it works. Itdoesn't make us anti-anything.In fact, last I checked, it makes up responsible citizens. There are thosethat would have all of America blindly trust in their gracious and almighty power, happily accepting their word as law and not understanding why all of America isn't praising and glorifying them every single day. They don't want Citizens, they want subjects who will happily bow down andsubjugate to their will.

We are quite a patriotic lot, and have many former military who have actually pledged their lives to protect the nation and many members that still are, even in Iraq (God bless them all). I was taught at a young age that a responsible citizen actually takes an ACTIVE role in our government, in that "animated contest of freedom", who KNOWS the laws, acts to change them when necessary andrecommends new ones when the need arisesthrough their elected representatives.

Again, welcome aboard and have fun!

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nitrovic, thanks for the reply I figure that the internet is just like anywhere else in the world and reminds me of Forrest Gump - it's like a box of chocolates in that you never know what you're gonna get. The internet and forums in particular exposes everyone to people that they'd never "meet" in everyday life which means that you'll get some crazies, some whackjobs andtinfoil hat types along with the Marines, Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers, Coasties (I can say Coastie - my brother was a Coastie ), good LEOs like Dad, shopkeepers, teachers, firemen, EMS, and even tech support guys like me

BobCav, sounds like you and nitrovichave a history. I'll stay out of that situation

Everything you have to say about OCDO tells me that this is the type of place I like to hang out and I can't find a thing I disagree with there I know the BATFE and just about every other acronym government agency and organization monitors this forum just like they monitor F-16.net and many of the other sites I visit on a regular basis. Oh yeah, I also know abut just how quckly stuff is picked up by the catalog servers and archived, too. I figure I don't have to worry since I think about everything twice before I hit submit and I have no criminal or bad intentions towards anyone or anything. I'm going to try to get my C&R license from the BATFE pretty soon, so that'll put me front and center with them. It doesn't bother me. Heck, I figure I'm already on the government radar as I'm a member of the Road Runners Internationale and I'm sending in my paperwork to the CIA so I can shop in the CIA's EAA online gift shop through them. I also decided it would be fun to drive out to the signs on Groom Lake Road that tell you not to go any farther towards Area 51 and wave at the guards. Funny, they didn't wave back :?:lol: Given the looks of their binoculars, I'd say they got a very good look at my license plates. I also volunteer at the Nellis Airshow "Aviation Nation" every yearso I know they've already checked me out at Nellis Base Security. Like I said, I'm not a threat to them in any way other than trying to get better gun laws and such, so I'm not worried

Thanks again and have a great day!

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As for the OP, I'd suggest looking into JHPs for the AK... I doubt you'd have many overpenetration problems there. Now, if you had a .30-06, I think we might have to start talking about overpenetation...

Otherwise, from the story you acted properly and responsibly. Some people might have suggested that you just start blasting through the door since obviously that person wanted to murder you. But they're not going to pay the bills from your lawyer and/or therepist.


As to the OT discussion, the problem lies in when the "government" betrays its constitutionally-defined definition. The BATFE has no right to exist (not to mention the DEA as well), and about 99% of those in public office need to be tried for treason. And the good American citizens need to arm themselves for the day when the aforementioned jack-booted thugs come around to do a Waco on them and their families because they don't accept unquestioningly the actions of said "government". If that makes me anti-government, so be it; I'm just pro-America. :uhoh:

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Tomahawk wrote:

Fact is, you can never tell if any given forum member is a complete phony. For all you guys know, I could be some super secret service agent from MI6 with a double-oh number, or whatever.

The mods can get my IP and figure out where I usually post from, and some of you have met me in person, but what does that really tell you? And those of you who haven't even met me don't know nuthin'.

So if I come on here and tell some BS story, maybe it's true and maybe it's not. Without a police report there's no way for you to tell one way or the other.

So any story you hear only on the net should be treated as a hypothetical.

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Oh so true........The great anonymity of the net

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All this was spinning through my mind at a million miles an hour when the guy finally ADMITTED THAT HE WAS SELLING MAGAZINES FOR SOME KIND OF FUND RAISER:cuss:!!!

I told him that no, I didn't want any and I thought he was being a total jerk by lying in an attempt to get someone to open their door. AND YET HE STILL CONTINUED TO TRY TO SELL ME SOME!!! The rifle stayed up and at the ready with my finger off the trigger A few expletives hurled in his direction at a high volume finally convinced him to move on.

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From the why you described the incident, I'd be highlysuspicious of that claim. People trying to sell something don't start out with a BS story trying to gain entrence to your home, nor do they argue about the validity of their BS story before admitting that they are actually trying to sell something. The magazine claim was probably just his last attempt to get you to open the door.

One criticism I have is not calling the police. If the guy really was trying for a home invasion, they (the cops) might have been already looking for someone using that MO.

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imperialism2024- Thanks for the feedback on both fronts. I still don't think I'm going to use the AK for HD due to noise, flash, and the tremendous number of inside and outside walls I know it can go through, especially if I miss:what: I'll probably pick up a Mossberg 500 from Wal Mart for $209 + tax etc. and keep the 9mm ready until then.

I can understand your feelings on the OT discussion, but I figure it's best left where it stands right now as it's still OT

Heartless_Conservative- I'd have to agree with you on those points - I just took the magazine thing at face value since it's so common. You're right, I should have called the cops on that one and I won't make the same mistake twice. Thank you for that post!

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So did you call the cops? Look out your window to try to get a description? Talk to or call your neighbors or the managerto be sure everyone elsewas alright? Or just go back to the TV and Web and let this guy find a more cooperative victim?

Glad it turned out ok but we look out for each other by doing what we can to keep our neighborhoods safe. Although you only heard his voice, thatcan along with other evidencecan lead to a conviction if he used the same tactics elsewhere and actually hurt or killed someone later.

Just food for thought...


Oh and welcome! I'm not usually such a hard ass but the above is what came to mind after reading your story. As a family man and cop, I try to look beyond my self interests and realize we all, as private citizens,have a part to play in deterring and defeating the BGs. There is no off duty for the public.

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cato wrote:

So did you call the cops? Look out your window to try to get a description? Talk to or call your neighbors or the managerto be sure everyone elsewas alright? Or just go back to the TV and Web and let this guy find a more cooperative victim?

Glad it turned out ok but we look out for each other by doing what we can to keep our neighborhoods safe. Although you only heard his voice, thatcan along with other evidencecan lead to a conviction if he used the same tactics elsewhere and actually hurt or killed someone later.

Just food for thought...


Oh and welcome! I'm not usually such a hard ass but the above is what came to mind after reading your story. As a family man and cop, I try to look beyond my self interests and realize we all, as private citizens,have a part to play in deterring and defeating the BGs. There is no off duty for the public.

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Cato - Sorry if I wasn't clear enough earlier. I didn't call the cops as I took this as some doofus kid selling magazine subscriptions. I didn't think of anything along those lines at all. I realize now that I should have called the PD and I definitely won't be making that same mistake twice.

Thank you for your welcome and I don't mind someone like you being a hard ass in a case like this. I asked for honest criticisms and that's what I'm getting. If there weren't hard asses like you, the ignorant folks like me wouldn't learn from your experiences. So thanks also for taking the time to educate someone (me) who needs it!

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bitParrothead wrote:

I was seriously scared and felt almost certain that some jerk I didn't know from Adam was about to break into my apartment KNOWING THAT I WAS INSIDE and that I was going to have to SHOOT HIM WITH THE FULL INTENTION OFTRYING TO KILLHIM.

Remember, Dad was CHP for all those years. Dad and the Boy Scouts taught me firearms safety and how to shoot, but Dad also taught me something the Boy Scouts never even mentioned. Dad taught me thatIF YOU EVER HAVE TO SHOOT AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, ONLY DO IT WITH THE INTENTION OF KILLING THEM. DO NOT EVER THINK OF TRYING TO SHOOT A WEAPON OUT OF THEIR HAND OR TRYING TO SHOOT THEM IN THE LEG. SHOOT FOR CENTER MASS AND CONTINUE TO FIRE UNTIL THEY ARE NO LONGER A THREAT.

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Just a bit of legal advice...NEVER state that you shot with the intention of killing or wounding. State that you shot to STOP and that you felt that you were inimminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

The actions of your assailant were so dangerous to you that he had to be "STOPPED" immediately... of course the most decisive way to "STOP" a threat is a well placed round to the brain housing group...

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WhiteRabbit22 wrote:

...

Boy, I'm glad I never got any of this crap from yall.

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lol, +1

Don't worry about it, Parrothead. I think you've done amore than sufficient job of proving who you are (not that you should have needed to...).

Anyway, it sounds like your father gave you some good advice. You handled the situation very well. I'm glad you learned something from it and are considering a 12 guage. In the kind of living situation that you are in, a 12 guage is probably the best weapon you could have because you are absolutely right about AKs overpenetrating. They are a blast to shoot though.

Anyway, good job and great situational awareness. Too many people stay in condition white and become victims, so good job in asking some questions when things seemed sketchy.

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imperialism2024 wrote:

As for the OP, I'd suggest looking into JHPs for the AK... I doubt you'd have many overpenetration problems there. Now, if you had a .30-06, I think we might have to start talking about overpenetation...

Otherwise, from the story you acted properly and responsibly. Some people might have suggested that you just start blasting through the door since obviously that person wanted to murder you. But they're not going to pay the bills from your lawyer and/or therepist.


As to the OT discussion, the problem lies in when the "government" betrays its constitutionally-defined definition. The BATFE has no right to exist (not to mention the DEA as well), and about 99% of those in public office need to be tried for treason. And the good American citizens need to arm themselves for the day when the aforementioned jack-booted thugs come around to do a Waco on them and their families because they don't accept unquestioningly the actions of said "government". If that makes me anti-government, so be it; I'm just pro-America. :uhoh:

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I'd say it makes you pro-freedom.

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BobCav wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

Parrothead wrote:
Over on F-16.net, we get our fair share of newbies who come out and in their first post either say that the F-16 sucks, the F-22 sucks, or that America sucks in which case we ask them to back it up or will counter their arguments with facts.


You'll get the same here. Some here think America sucks, cops suck, gov't sucks, wear tinfoil on your head because "they" are spying on us, blah blah blah. Welcome though, and good luck....:banghead:

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No real response, just wanted to make sure yourwords were quoted so you couldn't delete them later as has been done so many times in the past. (posters remorse?) For someone that has such a dislike for so manymembers and topics of this forum and is quite theantagonist in the true sense of the word, you sure do hang around here a lot and have a lot to say...then delete it. What's thatall about?

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Actually Bob, I remove my posts after a period of time so some psycho member here doesn't take things too far and e stalk me (remember Bob, you as a moderator threatening me with releasing my personal information simply because you disagreed with me).



So yeah, welcome to the site. Just agree with everythingthese guys sayor you will be stalked and threatened.They believe in the 2nd amendment just not the 1st amendment.

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nitrovic wrote:

BobCav wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

Parrothead wrote:
Over on F-16.net, we get our fair share of newbies who come out and in their first post either say that the F-16 sucks, the F-22 sucks, or that America sucks in which case we ask them to back it up or will counter their arguments with facts.


You'll get the same here. Some here think America sucks, cops suck, gov't sucks, wear tinfoil on your head because "they" are spying on us, blah blah blah. Welcome though, and good luck....:banghead:

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No real response, just wanted to make sure yourwords were quoted so you couldn't delete them later as has been done so many times in the past. (posters remorse?) For someone that has such a dislike for so manymembers and topics of this forum and is quite theantagonist in the true sense of the word, you sure do hang around here a lot and have a lot to say...then delete it. What's thatall about?

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Actually Bob, I remove my posts after a period of time so some psycho member here doesn't take things too far and e stalk me (remember Bob, you as a moderator threatening me with releasing my personal information simply because you disagreed with me).



So yeah, welcome to the site. Just agree with everythingthese guys sayor you will be stalked and threatened.They believe in the 2nd amendment just not the 1st amendment.

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Josh,youare only here to inflame and incite as your posts clearly prove. Well, the ones you haven't edited or deleted at least. If your words are honest, what do you have to fear? Why are you attempting to cover your tracks? We all want to know.

First of all, at the time of the PM, I didn't disagree with you at all. Look back and you'll see it was the OTHER members that disagreed with you. I merely thought you sounded a LOT likeothers that came hereonly to antagonize, so I looked you up in the internet.Internet search? Yes. E-Stalking? Not even close. Check your legal definition. I have.I haven't contacted you in anyof the ways that YOU publicly posted all over the internet. Our only contact has been legally herein the forum or through PM's.

Now to tear the rest of your petty argument to shreds.It took all of 15 minutes to find everything in that PM to you, not the hours and hours you would have everybody believe. Actually 30, because I accidentally deleted it and had to retype. Once compiling what I foundthat YOU carelessly left all over the internet, even recent posts stating that you were a LEO, I PM'ed you. In fact my exact words were:

"Oh, I decided to PM this to you BEFORE publically posting [that you were a LEO] in caseyou were in an active investigation of an individual."

The bracketed words are not in the original text as they are implied by the subject of you being a LEO. That's from sixth grade English class, I believe, but it may have been 7th. I'm not sure.I never said I was going to post your personal info, but included it to prove that it was indeed you. My exact words in my follow up PM were:

"I would never post anyone's personal info for that very reason....I'm not an asshole, just thorough and passionate about protecting the forum."

It's no secret thatevery single pro-gun, pro-liberty and pro-America forum is monitoredso stop pretending it doesn't happen, because in trying to make us look paranoid, you only make yourself look foolish.

And yet you continue this pathetic charade of distraction trying to discredit OCDO and me, but the only discredit here is that which you have brought upon yourself through your own actions and your own past.

Though it was merely a compilation of info researched and harvested from posts that YOU foolishly and carelessly made on the public internet and not illegal to re-post in any way, I didn't. Aggressive and passionate about right and wrong and protecting OCDO? You bet! But I'm not that kind of person and everyone knows it.And let's face it, you can'tpost the threat because it didn't happen.I want nothing from you and you have absolutely nothing to offer me. I don't want or needyour friendship, wisdom, sympathy, anything.

And still, you're the one deleting all your posts. Afraid someone in authority might find them? Something to hide?

You yourself carelessly postedyour very own personal info all over the internet.I can only hope that you don't have a security clearance and handle any kind of data. I will be checking and passing my findings to the appropriate authorities to see what THEY think. COMSEC and INFOSEC are very serious things and since I STILL have a military rank and a clearance myself I am duty and honor bound to report it.

The only problem that I and many here have with you is that you think that your badge and magical powers of "arrest" make you better than eveyone else. Guess what - it doesn't. And here on the forum we're all equal andthat's why you have such a problem fitting in:because you don't WANT to be equal. You WANT to feel superior with more power and that's a disgrace to any uniform and any badge and certainly dishonors those hundreds of thousands of LEO's that bust their asses each and every day trying to do the right thing by serving their communities.

You are NOT better than anyone either here on this forum nor out in town merely because you have arrest powers or a badge or once did or whatever. What's ironic is that in other forums you have said you support OpenCarry, yet you come here for info and all you do is instigate and insult. Do we attract some wackjobs? Of course we do. It's the nature of the beast. We handle it as we've done so well in the past before you came along and they move along on their way.

You want to fit in here?Treat people decent and with respect. Stop baiting and antagonizing and acting like you and your knowledge are so superior. You probably do have a lot to offer, but at this point, nobody cares.

You can start witha public apology to both me and the forum.

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You've proved my point once again Bob. If you don't agree, then silence them. Now you're going to "tell" on me? And what for Bob, what classified information have I given out Bob, do tell. What clearance issues have been brought up? Again, this can work both ways. And guess what? YOU'VE left your personal information all over the net as well. So what? What kind of federal violation is that? So I guess there will be a couple of "reportings" going on here. There are some borderline militia type posts here that can be construed in multiple ways. Once again Bob, we have to resort to threats. Just as I thought. Who's the "Gestapo" now?

As far as you threats, yes, I did say I used to be a cop. But you insisted that I am a police officer and for that reason you were going to post my personal information. That's not very "moderator" like of you.


BTW, let me save you some time, I don't currently have a clearance. I did in the military. So you go "report" me saying that I support police officers to the police, I'm sure they will launch a full scale investigation into the fact that someobody actually stands up for cops (I know that's foreign to you, and probably some type of crime in your book). Guilty as charged. And I'm waiting for the OPSEC/COMSEC violations that I posted?

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nitrovic wrote:

You've proved my point once again Bob. If you don't agree, then silence them. Now you're going to "tell" on me? And what for Bob, what classified information have I given out Bob, do tell. What clearance issues have been brought up? Again, this can work both ways. And guess what? YOU'VE left your personal information all over the net as well. So what? What kind of federal violation is that? So I guess there will be a couple of "reportings" going on here. There are some borderline militia type posts here that can be construed in multiple ways. Once again Bob, we have to resort to threats. Just as I thought. Who's the "Gestapo" now?

As far as you threats, yes, I did say I used to be a cop. But you insisted that I am a police officer and for that reason you were going to post my personal information. That's not very "moderator" like of you.


BTW, let me save you some time, I don't currently have a clearance. I did in the military. So you go "report" me saying that I support police officers to the police, I'm sure they will launch a full scale investigation into the fact that someobody actually stands up for cops (I know that's foreign to you, and probably some type of crime in your book). Guilty as charged. And I'm waiting for the OPSEC/COMSEC violations that I posted?

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What, and spoil the surprise?

Just wanted to save your post before you deleted it.

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:uhoh:, that's what I thought. Maybe you should brush up on the meaning of OPSEC/COMSEC in respects to the government. It's called freedom of speech Bob, you DO live in America. People are allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions. You can try to stop it all you want, it won't happen. You can make all the phone calls or continue to e stalk me if you'd like, sooner or later it's going to get into the area of harrassment or worse. Remember, information works both ways. I've done NOTHING criminal in anyway, hopefully we can say the same for you. I never thought I should care if somebody "found out" who I was. You posted your picture next to a car and some of your relatives information on the net, so what? Is that an "opsec" violation? Should I report you to some government agency?
Just FYI Bob, I won't sit back and become a vicitm, I can go to the magistrates office and fill out a citizens criminal complaint like anybody else can. I know the law too. BTW, since you are still a gov't employee (from what you say, we both know better) and hold an active clearance, I WILL be notifying the proper authorities about you posting on a "monitored" website.

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nitrovic wrote:

BobCav wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

You've proved my point once again Bob. If you don't agree, then silence them. Now you're going to "tell" on me? And what for Bob, what classified information have I given out Bob, do tell. What clearance issues have been brought up? Again, this can work both ways. And guess what? YOU'VE left your personal information all over the net as well. So what? What kind of federal violation is that? So I guess there will be a couple of "reportings" going on here. There are some borderline militia type posts here that can be construed in multiple ways. Once again Bob, we have to resort to threats. Just as I thought. Who's the "Gestapo" now?

As far as you threats, yes, I did say I used to be a cop. But you insisted that I am a police officer and for that reason you were going to post my personal information. That's not very "moderator" like of you.


BTW, let me save you some time, I don't currently have a clearance. I did in the military. So you go "report" me saying that I support police officers to the police, I'm sure they will launch a full scale investigation into the fact that someobody actually stands up for cops (I know that's foreign to you, and probably some type of crime in your book). Guilty as charged. And I'm waiting for the OPSEC/COMSEC violations that I posted?

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What, and spoil the surprise?

Just wanted to save your post before you deleted it.

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:uhoh:, that's what I thought. Maybe you should brush up on the meaning of OPSEC/COMSEC in respects to the government. It's called freedom of speech Bob, you DO live in America. People are allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions. You can try to stop it all you want, it won't happen. You can make all the phone calls or continue to e stalk me if you'd like, sooner or later it's going to get into the area of harrassment or worse. Remember, information works both ways. I've done NOTHING criminal in anyway, hopefully we can say the same for you. I never thought I should care if somebody "found out" who I was. You posted your picture next to a car and some of your relatives information on the net, so what? Is that an "opsec" violation? Should I report you to some government agency?
Just FYI Bob, I won't sit back and become a vicitm, I can go to the magistrates office and fill out a citizens criminal complaint like anybody else can. I know the law too. BTW, since you are still a gov't employee (from what you say, we both know better) and hold an active clearance, I WILL be notifying the proper authorities about you posting on a "monitored" website.

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[/quote]
All right, time out. You two go sit in the corner, lol.

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nitrovic wrote:

Actually Bob, I remove my posts after a period of time so some psycho member here doesn't take things too far and e stalk me...

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LOL. Do you sleep in that tinfoil hat?