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Thread: Oneida Co. Permit Restrictions?

  1. #1
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    Here in Oneiday County, I have what they call a restricted permit. It's stamped "for hunting, camping, hiking, target"

    Although the permit officer states that I need not worry about what I use it for, I'd still like to get the restrictions removed. I really dont understand the mixed message I received. I haverestrictions yet told something else by the permit officer. Any ideas?



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    In NY, anything that get stamped on as a restriction on a pistol permit is considered a bureaucratic limitation. The NYS Court of Appeals ruled a decade ago that while there's nothing in the law allowing issuing authorities to do this and there is no law to back up any "violation," it can be used as a reason by the issuant to revoke it, as NY is a may-issue state.

    So, if your permit is marked "TARGET SHOOTING AND HUNTING ONLY" (as is that of my brother in Albany), you're free to carry anywhere not prohibited by law... but if you get stopped and you have to present your permit, you might have it revoked as a violation of a bureaucratic restriction. And beyond that, it might be a problem for you if a cop has no clue about NYS carry laws, and not many do; they might think it's a law and arrest you until they have it sorted out. If they do, there are no laws to charge you with, so you'll be let go after plenty of time has been wasted. Just one of the many reasons NY laws need to be changed.

    (Edit) Addendum - Forgot to tell you... many issuing judges will issue all new permits with target/hunting sort restrictions as a template, but will then remove them officially if you complete some sort of advanced handgun training. In the Albany area, where getting a permit in the first place can be a troublesome experience, they'll do so if you complete any of the "advanced" level courses offered by the NRA or by some local police stations. I'd contact your county judge and see if he/she would accept that as a means of doing so.

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    I haven't read the section in a while, but it seems they have amended it once again. They now appear to have included variations to the types they issue in NY.



    2. Types of licenses. A license for gunsmith or dealer in firearms shall be issued to engage in such business. A license for a pistol or revolver, other than an assault weapon or a disguised gun, shall be issued to (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder; (b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper; (c) have and carry concealed while so employed by a messenger employed by a banking institution or express company; (d) have and carry concealed by a justice of the supreme court in the first or second judicial departments, or by a judge of the New York city civil court or the New York city criminal court; (e) have and carry concealed while so employed by a regular employee of an institution of the state, or of any county, city, town or village, under control of a commissioner of correction of the city or any warden, superintendent or head keeper of any state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime or held as witnesses in criminal cases, provided that application is made therefor by such commissioner, warden, superintendent or head keeper; (f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof; and (g) have, possess, collect and carry antique pistols which are defined as follows: (i) any single shot, muzzle loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or before 1898, which is not designed for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and (ii) any replica of any pistol described in clause (i) hereof if such replica--



    I remember when a restricted license didn't exist.

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    An easy way to get the restrictions is removed is to become an NRA certified pistol instructor. It costs about $160 and a weekend of your time. Once you get your instructor card you petition the court to remove the restrictions because as an instructor you may be teaching in a wide variety of locations or venues.

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    Thanks for the info.

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    fatmax2 wrote:
    Here in Oneiday County, I have what they call a restricted permit. It's stamped "for hunting, camping, hiking, target"

    Although the permit officer states that I need not worry about what I use it for, I'd still like to get the restrictions removed. I really dont understand the mixed message I received. I haverestrictions yet told something else by the permit officer. Any ideas?

    I have a buddy that had this happen in Jefferson County... (North)... He found a NYS law that told him that they can't do that.... I (myself) had no problems & have a permit to pack all the time.... But he (did) get his lifted! ... I'd call & check with a lawyer (if you have the money)...


    It's funny, I have another friend that got his NYS permit at the age of 16... Yeah, 16!!! & not one stamp on it!!! - He tells me that (he) also found a law that stated that a person can get a NYS permit at the age of 16...... I saw it in person too. But you need not trust this stuff... Check with a lawyer!!! One that is a member of the NRA too.

    Good luck & be safe!

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    In a neighboring county, a friend of mine has had his pistol permit for over 20 years. He had been asking the pistol permit clerk about getting aduplicate permit issued as his was so deteriorated AND getting the restrictions removed from the new permit. The clerk told him she couldn't do it and basically gave him a run around.

    I spoke to the clerk and asked her what a guy had to do in order to get restrictions removed from his permit.The clerksaid something about getting to the other end of the barn without going through the barn doors????? I expected something more direct as I'm a deputy, though this kind clerk tried to tell me I needed a complete police background check on a new pistol I purchased a few years ago.

    Being no further along, I spoke to one of the county clerk judges in person about the restrictions. I told him what was going on and was very specific that I was not looking for any favors because of my occupation. He told me that the Republican party gets on his case often about the time it takes to get a permit signed. He said the hold-up is not with him as he signs them, but with the clerk and another person who reviews them in the sheriff's office. He said that he will sign anyone's permit application, whether they submit that the reason for applying for a permit is "target shooting, hunting, camping" or "self defense." He told me that he would speak to the clerk and advise that the person desires an unrestricted duplicate permit and that is what he will get. When I told the judge that I was glad to hear he felt that way, he told me it didn't matter how he felt about it, but that hewas boundby the Constitution!:celebrate This clerk told my friend that onecould not get a permit hereunless the reason for applying was for hunting, target, bla, bla, bla. In some counties with some judges, that very well may be the case. That's what I was told I had to do in the county I initially applied in.

    Unfortunately, not everyone knows a peace officer or has easy access to judges who sign the permit approvals. I know, it should be as easy for anyone, regardless of their occupation. Anyway, you shoud understand that many times the clerks add to the mess just as easily as a judge who is not sympathetic to people's rights. You may want to try speaking to a judge responsible for signing these or contact the chairman of the party who supports the standing judge(s) if you can't get an audience with that person.

    denwego is correct that there are far fewer officers who actually know the firearms laws than there are those who do. It is very easy for LE to run roughshod over someone when the LE thinks he's doing the right thing or the "legal" thing.

    This may be a hard one to believe, but not long after Columbine, the judge in a neighboring county (the judge who issued me my permin when I was in my 20's) issued my FFL dealers high school son a pistol permit with no restrictions other than the understanding that he was to use it under supervision by his parents until he was 18.

    So, it's hit or miss in every county as there could be any number of people causing the road blocks. I personally would rather see us like Vermont, but I'm stuck in Ny for a while. Good luck with this. I hope you getthem removed.

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    Thank for the info. I will start with the pistol officeand work my way to the rep party and eventually to the Judge if I have to.

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    denwego wrote:
    In NY, anything that get stamped on as a restriction on a pistol permit is considered a bureaucratic limitation. The NYS Court of Appeals ruled a decade ago that while there's nothing in the law allowing issuing authorities to do this and there is no law to back up any "violation," it can be used as a reason by the issuant to revoke it, as NY is a may-issue state.

    So, if your permit is marked "TARGET SHOOTING AND HUNTING ONLY" (as is that of my brother in Albany), you're free to carry anywhere not prohibited by law... but if you get stopped and you have to present your permit, you might have it revoked as a violation of a bureaucratic restriction. And beyond that, it might be a problem for you if a cop has no clue about NYS carry laws, and not many do; they might think it's a law and arrest you until they have it sorted out. If they do, there are no laws to charge you with, so you'll be let go after plenty of time has been wasted. Just one of the many reasons NY laws need to be changed.

    (Edit) Addendum - Forgot to tell you... many issuing judges will issue all new permits with target/hunting sort restrictions as a template, but will then remove them officially if you complete some sort of advanced handgun training. In the Albany area, where getting a permit in the first place can be a troublesome experience, they'll do so if you complete any of the "advanced" level courses offered by the NRA or by some local police stations. I'd contact your county judge and see if he/she would accept that as a means of doing so.
    Does anyone have a link or more information regarding this ruling? I am in WNY and have been looking for this ruling. My license is marked Hunting/Target also and don't want to lose it, but still would like to get my unrestricted permit. It is really shameful for the courts to be passing laws circumventing the actual state law - shameful.

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