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Thread: Accuracy or knowing your capabilities

  1. #1
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    I've noticed there's a lot of people that carry put a bunch of weight on the need to be accurate to be responsible. I keep having an issue with this though.

    I have a tremor, so sometimes I shake a bit (kinda like you would after 2 pots of coffee). I think there's more to be said for knowing what one is capable of than being able to punch out quarter size groups at 20 yards. (even with my pistol in a vice i doubt i could keep a good group)

    Example being, while deer hunting last year i chose not to take the only shot i had an opportunity to take after 2 weeks of trying (still learning)... it was a 50 yard head shot. However knowing my rifle and my limitations i figured the chances of that bullet finding it's way down range rather than in the deer were to great (and a few other equally important factors). I tried to find a better angle on the deer and quickly scared him off....

    But i still think i made the correct choice there (my uncle didn't agree).


    Just wondering what everone else's opinion on accuracy compared to simply knowing and not overstepping one's capabilities are.

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    Maybe you need closer targets??

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    uncoolperson wrote:
    SNIP

    Just wondering what everone else's opinion on accuracy compared to simply knowing and not overstepping one's capabilities are.
    I'm not sure what you are asking here. It seems to me that knowing your accuracy is simply part of not overstepping one's capabilities.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I hope I don't need the asbestos suit, but I think that accuracy is overrated for those who open carry. For 99.9% (maybe 99.8%) of encounters where a gun is used in self-defense, accuracy is not relevant because you won't need to fire. In the rest of the cases, most of the criminals who were not scared off by the presence of an aimed gun will be scared off when your bullets start flying. In the remainder of cases, the attacker will probably be close enough that he'll be easily within range for most people. Sorry folks, but most attackers don't need 15 headshots through the same hole at 75 yards.

    That's not to say that one shouldn't strive to be as accurate as possible, and shouldn't know his limitations. But if you are a hopelessly poor shot, it won't matter in most situations.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    uncoolperson wrote:
    I've noticed there's a lot of people that carry put a bunch of weight on the need to be accurate to be responsible. I keep having an issue with this though.


    But i still think i made the correct choice there (my uncle didn't agree).


    Just wondering what everone else's opinion on accuracy compared to simply knowing and not overstepping one's capabilities are.
    You made the correct decision and did not overstep your capabilities. I would say that this make you a very responsible hunter, gun owner and citizen!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    I hope I don't need the asbestos suit, but I think that accuracy is overrated for those who open carry. For 99.9% (maybe 99.8%) of encounters where a gun is used in self-defense, accuracy is not relevant because you won't need to fire. In the rest of the cases, most of the criminals who were not scared off by the presence of an aimed gun will be scared off when your bullets start flying. In the remainder of cases, the attacker will probably be close enough that he'll be easily within range for most people. Sorry folks, but most attackers don't need 15 headshots through the same hole at 75 yards.

    That's not to say that one shouldn't strive to be as accurate as possible, and shouldn't know his limitations. But if you are a hopelessly poor shot, it won't matter in most situations.
    I agree with most of this. I would like to add that should bullets start flying, the experience will be nothing like being in a lane at you local range. You'll be running (or should), he'll be running, one or both of you firing as fast as your finger can pull the trigger,and the chances of you hitting a high deflection shot (he's moving perpendicular to your line of fire) with a pistol at anything beyond 10 yardshaving never trained for it are a rounding error, even if you can shoot a ragged hole at 25 yards.

    Pure marksmanship is no measure of what you'll do in such a situation. If you want to train for the real world, look at spending a week at Blackwater, or at the very least a couple of days at an IPSC-style training course. Even then you're not shooting at a moving target; you can try clays or a shooting-gallery style setup, both of which are as expensive as IPSC.

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    There are a pleathera of statistics and studies that have concluded that gun fights happen at all ends of the spectrum. Generally any search you do will turn up with multiple results and lots of information (and adds) that have nothing to do with what you wantto find.

    But most instructors agree that between 5 and 10 feet would be the average distance. The number of shots is questionable because most people will empty a magazine without ever knowing they have done so.

    While most of the time I agree with philasophical twin, I think thesidearm has only a part in a bigger role of deterance. You must take into account physical size, manor of dress, tone of voice, time of day, number of exits, number of witnesses, topography, objects of interference, and so on. All of these will have an impact on if you fire a shot or not. The charachteristicsof your actions will play one of the biggest roles in the scenario.

    When you only focus on the tool as your savior you will probably not win the fight. I can OC a S&W 500 super duper magnium and it won't mean squat if I don't keep distance, control the conversation, and give myself every conceivable advantage that is available to me at that time.

    Is accuracy important? Of course, Wyat Erp was quoted as saying.

    "Speed is fine, accuracy is final. You have to learn to be slow in a hurry."-Wyat

    Don't get caught up in the choice of weapons and being able to shoot the testies off a nat at 50. Read the whole situation and practice just talking, because being accurate with your mind will win you the fight.



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    I agree with what you have said. Never overstep your limitations, because you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun. If you are not confident in your accuracy, don't take the shot. Excellant example, by the way.

    I have a good example of knowing your limitations as well.

    I was working at a night club in seattle (not as a bouncer, just club staff). I was outside getting something from my car when I saw all of the people in the parking lot running toward the club (this was a very frightening scene). They stopped and were all crammed close together when they had no further to run. I then saw a black male emerge from the parking lot where the crowd had come from, about 5'11", 160 lbs, 18-25 years old wearing gangster attire, and holding in his right hand a Mac 11 pistol. His pistol was aimed at the crowd, and he started yelling at the crowd. It appeared that some of the people in the crowd were from a rival gang. The gunman hadn't noticed me and I was at his 10 o'clock, about 20 yards away. I quickly took cover next to a van, putting it's axel between me and him, and observing over the hood. I drew my Sig P220 .45acp with night sights. It was loaded with Spear Gold Dots, which I had just purchased to replace my old HydraShoks and hadn't had a chance to go to the range with yet. Ihad 7 in the mag, one in the tube and 1 spare mag tucked in my belt.

    It was about this time that I noticed that he had 5 friends standing behind him, partially blocked from my view by cars. I heard someone behind me and noticed that the SUV right behind me was full of club goers. The much better dressed black male driving the SUV said something along the lines of "don't get us shot". staying somewhat concealed from the gunman's view, I took aim, lining up my sights for his ear, since that was the angle to his brain stem from my direction.

    I cocked the hammer and waited. I knew that he could start shooting into the crowd at any time, but the shot didn't feel right. I was 15-20 yards away, firing new ammo I haven't shot yet, and let's face it, a P220 isn't a sniper rifle. If I want him to go down instantly, I'm going to have to nail this headshot. If I don't, he might still shoot the crowd. If I miss, he might shoot in my direction, killing the people in the SUV behind me. Not to mention that behind him is a busy street. Even if I hit him perfectly, his buddies might be armed, and I don't have enough ammo to engage 5 moving targets with cover.

    I saw that the actual bouncers were stacking up in a wanna-be SWAT kind of formation along the wall. They all carried, and most of them wore vests. But I had a feeling that if they had the balls to engage a shooter, they would have done it already. I didn't trust them to back me up if I ended up in a firefight with the whole group. I got to know them better after that event and I am now confident that they would have, but at the time I had my doubts. They really are great guys, but back to the story. I knew it was now or never, and I put my finger on the trigger. I was steady, and my hand wasn't shaking. But I froze. I couldn't do it. It wasn't shooting the guy that I had a problem with, don't get me wrong. I was affraid. All of a sudden we hear the distant wail of police sirens. The guy turns and runs.

    I holster my gun and I'm in a daze. I can't think straight so I light a cigarette, even though I'm too shakey to really smoke it. My mind is racing about what just happened. I can't remember much, except thinking that I had just been tested and failed. I was too much of a coward to take the shot. One of the bouncers talks to me and tells me that I did fine, and I was right to not shoot, but I'm to wrapped up in the adrenaline to listen. I don't remember the rest of the night, but I remember the rest of this story so vividly that I can see it and taste the air. I can feel the gun in my hands and I remember what I was wearing. I can feel the clothes I was wearing, and I remember every little detail about the van and the SUV.

    Anyway, looking back a few years later, I am convinced that I make the right decision under pressure, not that I was too much of a coward. I have, however, taken a lot of time to be more proficient with my weapon so that next time I have a shot that must be taken, I am confident taking it. I have changed everything about the way I carry a gun because of this event. I changed to 9mm for preceived accuracy and high capacity, I carry more ammo, I have a better holster, I practice more, and I am confident that if I am ever tested again, I will not hesitate.



    I hope you all enjoyed the story. I haven't stretched the truth to make it sound more interesting or anything. This is exactly how it happened.

  9. #9
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    expvideo wrote:
    Snip
    Anyway, looking back a few years later, I am convinced that I make the right decision under pressure, not that I was too much of a coward. I have, however, taken a lot of time to be more proficient with my weapon so that next time I have a shot that must be taken, I am confident taking it. I have changed everything about the way I carry a gun because of this event. I changed to 9mm for preceived accuracy and high capacity, I carry more ammo, I have a better holster, I practice more, and I am confident that if I am ever tested again, I will not hesitate.


    I hope you all enjoyed the story. I haven't stretched the truth to make it sound more interesting or anything. This is exactly how it happened.
    Holy crap man, that's one hell of a story! IMO, you absolutely made the right decision, and performed better than most would in that situation. People forget that quite often the correct choice in a situation is to not fire...you have to consider all of the variables.

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