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Thread: Dale City Gun Show No Concealed Carry

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    Regular Member coondog22554's Avatar
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    Today's show was the first time I have ever seen a sign stating all concealed carry handguns must be unloaded. I'm used to seeing open carry handguns and long guns zip tied for safety but never at any show have I seen a sign forbidding concealed carry.

    Maybe I've just never looked to hard at the signs before but this one was hard to miss.


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Most shows do not forbid concealed carry, but they do forbid being there with a loaded gun. You can carry an unloaded gun concealed.
    James Reynolds

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Chantilly has taken to posting "Unload your guns. All of them." for the past several shows.

    Most of the shows I've ever attended had a "No loaded weapons" sign. Where have you seen shows without that rule?
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Ya... so I am not surprised that the Dale City show is any different. It seems that they have identified CC guns explicitly.

    I figure if they are making you unload those in the open.... those that hidden would have the same rule.

    No ammo means there should be no discharges. But then.... you can always BUY ammo inside plus mags inside.

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    Campaign Veteran pourshot's Avatar
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    coondog22554 wrote:
    Maybe I've just never looked to hard at the signs before but this one was hard to miss.
    Been there most every show for some time. Might be bigger this time.



    I guess size matters....

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    No ammo means there should be no discharges. But then.... you can always BUY ammo inside plus mags inside.
    Well, no firearms discharges. I've seen some folks get mighty excited at fondling guns.

    But while you could buy ammo at the Dale City show today, you'd be hard pressed to find a magazine to put it in, unless you bought a gun as well.

    I also didn't find holsters for my new (Fire)Star 9mm. Or for anything else.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    You all do realize that the VFW is a club with a license to serve alcohol right? Hence CCW is illegal.

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    longwatch wrote:
    You all do realize that the VFW is a club with a license to serve alcohol right? Hence CCW is illegal.
    Good point!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.abc.virginia.gov/licensee...;license=53692

    The above link is to a copy of the VFW Post 1503s restaurant license in case anyone had a doubt.

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    Tess wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    No ammo means there should be no discharges. But then.... you can always BUY ammo inside plus mags inside.
    Well, no firearms discharges. I've seen some folks get mighty excited at fondling guns.
    [flash=320,256]http://www.youtube.com/v/E0PIdWdw15U&hl=en[/flash]

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    Tess,

    That was a disgusting turn of conversation.

    I do not want to know what Tomahawk's video post response to it is. I'm not even going to watch it.

    I just know its going to be something to make me go, "Ewwww"



    Edited to add: OK. Curiosity made me watch it anyway. It wasn't at all what I thought it might be like. I apologize to Tomahawk. This time.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Assuming that this thread means that the gunshow in Dale City is Sat/Sun, anyone care to let me know if the show was any good or not? (as in, good selection of dealers, or is there only Trader Jerry's with a limited selection and mostly jewlery and airsoft stuff?)

    Thanks!

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    Regular Member coondog22554's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    You all do realize that the VFW is a club with a license to serve alcohol right? Hence CCW is illegal.
    Point Counterpoint...

    Yes but the show does not take place in the club / restaurant. The meeting hall is subleased to the show organizer.

    Is a mall off limits because the Applebee's restaurant has an ABC license?

    Granted this is a mute point because the show posted a sign against CCW.
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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    Assuming that this thread means that the gunshow in Dale City is Sat/Sun, anyone care to let me know if the show was any good or not? (as in, good selection of dealers, or is there only Trader Jerry's with a limited selection and mostly jewlery and airsoft stuff?)

    Thanks!
    As a rule, the Dale City show has become less and less populated with sellers in the few years I've been going. This was was darn near empty. Trader Jerrys was the only real dealer. There was one other guy along the backwall who may have been a dealer; he had a lot of newer firearms, but nothing that I wanted, so I didn't stop long. No other big dealers. Lots of long guns - well, lots for a show that size. One ammo dealer. No holster or leather dealers.

    Even the guy who usually sits outside in the pavillion with his military surplus wasn't there.

    I wasn't too disappointed, because we found two handguns we wanted, and a left-handed shotgun for spouse. But that was pure serendipity; it was not because the pickings were so good.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Ya... so I am not surprised that the Dale City show is any different. It seems that they have identified CC guns explicitly.

    I figure if they are making you unload those in the open.... those that hidden would have the same rule.

    No ammo means there should be no discharges. But then.... you can always BUY ammo inside plus mags inside.
    It is the rule at almost all shows I've seen. I expect a lot of it is insurance related. They get a little carried away sometimes though. A few years ago at the showplace, they had a new cop strapping triggers.

    I had a Bullpup 12 ga that I was almost finished building and it had a side saddle on it. He saw the sidesaddle and went ballistic. Made me take the shells out of it and leave them outside.

    Pissed me off too. Never to let anyone have the lasst word, I went in, bought a box of birdshot, filled the side saddle and left the rest of the box with the dealer, walked past the cop and said, excuse me, just have to take my shells to the car.

    I went back and forth doing that until the box was empty!
    If looks could kill he would have been a dangerous SOB.

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    peter nap wrote:
    It is the rule at almost all shows I've seen. I expect a lot of it is insurance related. They get a little carried away sometimes though. A few years ago at the showplace, they had a new cop strapping triggers.

    I had a Bullpup 12 ga that I was almost finished building and it had a side saddle on it. He saw the sidesaddle and went ballistic. Made me take the shells out of it and leave them outside.

    Pissed me off too. Never to let anyone have the lasst word, I went in, bought a box of birdshot, filled the side saddle and left the rest of the box with the dealer, walked past the cop and said, excuse me, just have to take my shells to the car.

    I went back and forth doing that until the box was empty!
    If looks could kill he would have been a dangerous SOB.
    I would agree.... they could be going overboard. But I never asked why they do what they do so I really cannot say.

    And you were a bad, bad boy!!!

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    coondog22554 wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    You all do realize that the VFW is a club with a license to serve alcohol right? Hence CCW is illegal.
    Point Counterpoint...

    Yes but the show does not take place in the club / restaurant. The meeting hall is subleased to the show organizer.

    Is a mall off limits because the Applebee's restaurant has an ABC license?

    Granted this is a mute point because the show posted a sign against CCW.
    You would have to examine the actual license for the limits, but I'm thinking since the license is for an establishment of 150+ persons, sounds like they include the hall.

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    longwatch wrote:
    SNIP
    You would have to examine the actual license for the limits, but I'm thinking since the license is for an establishment of 150+ persons, sounds like they include the hall.
    FWIW, in Michigan, a few VFW's (the hall)I've frequented for wedding receptions allowed (Licensed) alcohol. IMO, no CC in Va. VFW's.

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    Tess wrote:
    nova wrote:
    Assuming that this thread means that the gunshow in Dale City is Sat/Sun, anyone care to let me know if the show was any good or not? (as in, good selection of dealers, or is there only Trader Jerry's with a limited selection and mostly jewlery and airsoft stuff?)

    Thanks!
    As a rule, the Dale City show has become less and less populated with sellers in the few years I've been going. This was was darn near empty. Trader Jerrys was the only real dealer. There was one other guy along the backwall who may have been a dealer; he had a lot of newer firearms, but nothing that I wanted, so I didn't stop long. No other big dealers. Lots of long guns - well, lots for a show that size. One ammo dealer. No holster or leather dealers.

    Even the guy who usually sits outside in the pavillion with his military surplus wasn't there.

    I wasn't too disappointed, because we found two handguns we wanted, and a left-handed shotgun for spouse. But that was pure serendipity; it was not because the pickings were so good.


    Thanks for the info. I've only been to two Dale City shows, the first one was last November, and there were a few dealers there with a decent selection an good prices. I was able to finally get my Mossberg 20" 8rd shotgun I've been hunting for, and I got it for under 200 bucks new. I was also able to get a "well-used" Ruger P95D for 199 bucks.

    EDIT: Forgot to finish my thought. The second Dale City show I went to, was last December. It was pitiful. Trader Jerry was the only gun dealer there, and even then their selection was less than half of what they had the month before.



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    ABC license is for a specified area... You would have to see the actual license to see what the specified area is, but my initial guess would be that it covers their entire facility.

    As a side note, for those familiar with the Norfolk Waterside Mall, the entire first floor of the mall is covered by an ABC permit that allows the food court to serve alcohol. Technically it is illegal to CC anywhere on the first floor...

    A question about the VFW hall comes to mind, though... It would take a lawyer, and maybe then an actual court ruling, but there may be some leeway because the VFW is a private club, not a restaurant. They hold a Federally granted license to serve alcohol. From my experience with working in and running bars and restaurants, this license is granted by the Federal Gov't and then is paired with a state issued "Use Permit". This is also the loophole that so-called "After Hours" bars use. The license allows them to serve alcohol 23 hours per day, closing for at least one hour, and does not stipulate when they must be closed. Va Law stipulates no off premise sales after midnight or before 6 AM and no on-premise sales after 2AM and before 6 AM...

    State Law says it is illegal to conceal in a "restaurant" with a license for on-premise consumption, but does not specifically address private clubs...

    ...Is there a lawyer in the house?

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    tapper95 wrote:
    State Law says it is illegal to conceal in a "restaurant" with a license for on-premise consumption, but does not specifically address private clubs...

    ...Is there a lawyer in the house?
    Actually, state law says restaurant or club. See:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    "J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in ยง 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit. "

    Per http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+4.1-100

    " "Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated. ..."

    Certainly seems like the VFW would fit the definition...

    Read first, post second...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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