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My PA open-carry journal

lildobe

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Nov 13, 2007
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Pittsburgh (Beechview), Pennsylvania, USA
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Farmer Troy wrote:
I've been open carrying the last few days also . . . in and around Pittsburgh.

Giant Eagle, Lunch @ Penn Brewery, Natural Foods Store in the Strip . . . I did cover up in Walmart, post office and the bank, but then uncovered again and went to a work clothing store, lunch at Moe's Southwest Grill, a few other stores and nobody said a word or really even looked at me funny.
The number of OCers in the 'Burgh keeps climbing!

Though it should be noted that carry (OC or CC) in the Post Office is illegal by federal law...
 

Sonora Rebel

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'Just curious... but what year did OC become recognized/permitted in PA?WhenI lived in MD (ugh) it wasn['t... 'least that anybody seemed to be aware of. (VA either for that matter) The 2A played a major part of my decision to (finally) come back to AZ. MD had become politically, financially and sociallyuntenable. What I read here... (daily) is thecringe factor... both from OC'rs 'n the unwashed masses as to acceptability.
 

Sonora Rebel

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The Constitution (and the 2A) wasn't ratified 'til 1788. NO... whenI lived back east there was no OC in PA or VA. I think VA dropped the ban in 2002 or 2003. PA may have done so in the mid '90's butI dunno the actual date. It is still not widely 'accepted' or you wouldn't still have people arrested for doin' it. OC's been normal here since before Arizona was Arizona.
 

lildobe

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Pittsburgh (Beechview), Pennsylvania, USA
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
The Constitution (and the 2A) wasn't ratified 'til 1788. NO... whenI lived back east there was no OC in PA or VA. I think VA dropped the ban in 2002 or 2003. PA may have done so in the mid '90's butI dunno the actual date. It is still not widely 'accepted' or you wouldn't still have people arrested for doin' it. OC's been normal here since before Arizona was Arizona.

AFAIK, PA has never had a ban on OC...

Maybe one of the other legal-eagles can chime in?
 

Farmer Troy

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Feb 20, 2008
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Western PA, ,
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lildobe wrote:


Though it should be noted that carry (OC or CC) in the Post Office is illegal by federal law...
Shouldn't there be a sign or something when you walk into the Post Office? I didn't see one.

Also, I've been doing more open carrying including the food court at the mall (South Hills Village) and in the mall itself.

So far so good.
 

Sonora Rebel

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lildobe wrote:
AFAIK, PA has never had a ban on OC...

Maybe one of the other legal-eagles can chime in?

I used to visit Bucks County area quite a bit... 'n the Poconos... Delaware River 'n such. 'Never saw anyone OC a handgun... never heard anybody tallk about it... Not even out in the hinters. Used to race at US 30 in York back when... 'n still no guns.

I know it's in the PA State Constitution... but I had never seen or even heard of anyone OC'n a handgun.
 

david.ross

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May 24, 2008
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lildobe wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
The Constitution (and the 2A) wasn't ratified 'til 1788. NO... whenI lived back east there was no OC in PA or VA. I think VA dropped the ban in 2002 or 2003. PA may have done so in the mid '90's butI dunno the actual date. It is still not widely 'accepted' or you wouldn't still have people arrested for doin' it. OC's been normal here since before Arizona was Arizona.

AFAIK, PA has never had a ban on OC...

Maybe one of the other legal-eagles can chime in?
Dobe is correct, PA is a traditional open carry state. In the 90s they passed the UFA, which prohibited any county, municipality or township from regulating the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of a firearm.

Open carry has never been banned by state legislature, political subdivisions on the other hand is a different story. Laws which were passed before the UFA was passed are null and void, any officer or person who tries to argue the opposite don't know what they're talking about.

Link to § 6120:
http://www.frontlinearmory.com/misc/paoc/ufa.html#6120

EDIT: grammar
 

Sonora Rebel

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It's amazing (maybe not) that stuff like this is never promulgated by the MSM. When VA recognized open carry... even WTOP in DC never mentioned it... 'n Arlington is just across the 'moat'. That kind'a thing has gotta be deliberate.

What they 'do' wish broadcasts regarding firearmsis usually misleading and 'info' based' upon the location of the broadcaster (NY, DC, LA).Further... that some PA LE jurisdictions (here 'n there) still have an attitude about OC.That doesn't make sense... at all.
 

david.ross

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May 24, 2008
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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You don't want to get me started about officer attitude.

The simple truth is, they are people just like everyone else. You'll find biased opinion anywhere you go, even though they recognize open carry is legal. Some staff at the sheriff's dept at Allegheny had an awakening. The staff were split in half on the issue about attitude even though they confirmed to what I told them about the law. One officer blew up at me when I read him § 6120 when I corrected him after he said they'll tell people to make sure they know the ordinances where they travel in PA.

The end result of the day is the law, not opinion. If they start to get upset, simply reassure them and try to have a good attitude.

I encourage everyone to read the book, "The Definitive Book of Body Language", as knowing about how people act and react will help in any situation.
Code:
 

lildobe

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Nov 13, 2007
Messages
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Location
Pittsburgh (Beechview), Pennsylvania, USA
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Farmer Troy wrote
Shouldn't there be a sign or something when you walk into the Post Office? I didn't see one.
There is... just not where you walk in:

[align=center]
post_office_s.jpg

http://www.lildobe.net/images/pafoa/post_office_l.jpg

[/align]
 

david.ross

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May 24, 2008
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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I love section (H) better.

Code:
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

Also, I've seen people carry pocket knives larger than 2 1/2 inches, which is also illegal since the knife is a "dangerous weapon."

Code:
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

I suppose I'm the only one who really pays attention to the fine details. :)
 

Farmer Troy

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So that means if I go mail a letter and don't see a conspicuous sign when I walk in, then I should not have to worry about being convicted?

Also, isn't this a little bit blurry, since the Post Office is actually a private company, and not really run by the federal government?
 

david.ross

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I'm actually a little curious myself. The post office where I live has the sign posted at the entrance inside to the post office shop. The area where the PO boxes do not have signs posted anywhere, not at the entrances. I'm curious if the post officer here owns/rents the store inside only.
 

CowboyKen

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May 31, 2007
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Farmer Troy wrote:
So that means if I go mail a letter and don't see a conspicuous sign when I walk in, then I should not have to worry about being convicted?

Also, isn't this a little bit blurry, since the Post Office is actually a private company, and not really run by the federal government?
The Post Office is subject to Federal regulation and the CFR is law.

While 39 CFR 232 says, "This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property," there is nothing that says it must be posted to be enforceable.

You are welcome to test this if you like. Please let us know the outcome.

insane.kangaroo wrote:
I'm actually a little curious myself. The post office where I live has the sign posted at the entrance inside to the post office shop. The area where the PO boxes do not have signs posted anywhere, not at the entrances. I'm curious if the post officer here owns/rents the store inside only.
39 CFR 232 says, "This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. " Goes on to distinguish public sidewalks and parking areas.

Seems clear to me.

Ken



Ken
 

david.ross

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Yes, the Post office controls the office area and the PO boxes, but what I'm curious about is the walk about area which people can move to check their PO boxes.
 

Farmer Troy

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Feb 20, 2008
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Location
Western PA, ,
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CowboyKen wrote:
Farmer Troy wrote:
So that means if I go mail a letter and don't see a conspicuous sign when I walk in, then I should not have to worry about being convicted?

Also, isn't this a little bit blurry, since the Post Office is actually a private company, and not really run by the federal government?
The Post Office is subject to Federal regulation and the CFR is law.

While 39 CFR 232 says, "This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property," there is nothing that says it must be posted to be enforceable.

You are welcome to test this if you like. Please let us know the outcome.
I have no desire to test anything . . . I hope that common sense would dictate the outcome if it ever goes to test, but I have not the financial wherewithal to hire a lawyer, nor the spare time to waste in the courts (or worse, jail).
 

CowboyKen

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Location
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Farmer Troy wrote:
CowboyKen wrote:
Farmer Troy wrote:
So that means if I go mail a letter and don't see a conspicuous sign when I walk in, then I should not have to worry about being convicted?

Also, isn't this a little bit blurry, since the Post Office is actually a private company, and not really run by the federal government?
The Post Office is subject to Federal regulation and the CFR is law.

While 39 CFR 232 says, "This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property," there is nothing that says it must be posted to be enforceable.

You are welcome to test this if you like. Please let us know the outcome.
I have no desire to test anything . . . I hope that common sense would dictate the outcome if it ever goes to test, but I have not the financial wherewithal to hire a lawyer, nor the spare time to waste in the courts (or worse, jail).

Thank you. You have stated my personal position (much more clearly then I could have) exactly.

Ken

p.s.; insane.kangarooasks for further claification, "Yes, the Post office controls the office area and the PO boxes, but what I'm curious about is the walk about area which people can move to check their PO boxes."

IANAL!!! IMHO the rule will be applied anywhere on the property including the separate PO box area.
 
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