surfj9009
Regular Member
imported post
ScottyT wrote:
ScottyT wrote:
+1
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My First (non-police) Hostile Encounter
- Thread starter Mainsail
- Start date
Bear 45/70
Regular Member
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Sonny, we have way more wetbacks in the country than legals and as long as they are illegal I will speak badly of them as I do any other criminal. And if you are an example of an intellegent person this forum is hurtin'.
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,777
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
+1 for the TPD dispatcher. You might want to consider writing a letter to the department.
Positive reinforcement is a great way to encourage better interaction between law enforcement and gun owners!
Mainsail wrote:
+1 for the TPD dispatcher. You might want to consider writing a letter to the department.
Positive reinforcement is a great way to encourage better interaction between law enforcement and gun owners!
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,777
imported post
Bear 45/70 wrote:
I understand your frustration and anger with illegal immigrants and the mockery they are making of our laws.
Having said that, the term "wetbacks" is NOT apopropriate for this forum! You may feel free to curse "illegals" as much as you want but "wetbacks" is a term that degrades an entire group of people including many fine American citizens and fellow gun owners.
This forum is a welcoming home to all who believe in the RKBA regardless of race, sex, or sexual orientation. I would hate for an hispanic person to see this term in the first thread they view on OCDO!
Please understand that I am not attacking you personally. As I said earlier, I understand what you are really trying to say. Illegal immigration is one of the biggest problems we as a nation are facing. But ... we must address the real problem and not attack our fellow citizens while doing so.
Thanks for letting me get up on my soapbox.
John
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Bear,
I understand your frustration and anger with illegal immigrants and the mockery they are making of our laws.
Having said that, the term "wetbacks" is NOT apopropriate for this forum! You may feel free to curse "illegals" as much as you want but "wetbacks" is a term that degrades an entire group of people including many fine American citizens and fellow gun owners.
This forum is a welcoming home to all who believe in the RKBA regardless of race, sex, or sexual orientation. I would hate for an hispanic person to see this term in the first thread they view on OCDO!
Please understand that I am not attacking you personally. As I said earlier, I understand what you are really trying to say. Illegal immigration is one of the biggest problems we as a nation are facing. But ... we must address the real problem and not attack our fellow citizens while doing so.
Thanks for letting me get up on my soapbox.
John
Bear 45/70
Regular Member
imported post
jpierce wrote:
Some policy to live by, I really have to question people's honesty when they insist on PC conduct.
jpierce wrote:
Is not the term "wetback" a correct description of what they are? If you think calling a rose by other name changes anything then you are too PC to own guns in the real world. Have fun voting for Oboma or Hillary. Now we have to speak nice of criminals? Pretty much shows how confused some people are, don't speak the truth whatever you do. It's better to lie.Bear 45/70 wrote:Bear,
I understand your frustration and anger with illegal immigrants and the mockery they are making of our laws.
Having said that, the term "wetbacks" is NOT apopropriate for this forum! You may feel free to curse "illegals" as much as you want but "wetbacks" is a term that degrades an entire group of people including many fine American citizens and fellow gun owners.
This forum is a welcoming home to all who believe in the RKBA regardless of race, sex, or sexual orientation. I would hate for an hispanic person to see this term in the first thread they view on OCDO!
Please understand that I am not attacking you personally. As I said earlier, I understand what you are really trying to say. Illegal immigration is one of the biggest problems we as a nation are facing. But ... we must address the real problem and not attack our fellow citizens while doing so.
Thanks for letting me get up on my soapbox.
John
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,777
imported post
Bear 45/70 wrote:
I said that you could speak ill of "illegal" aliens all you wanted to. But slurs will NOT be tolerated on this forum! You may feel free to call me PC, stupid or a rat-bastard, but it ultimately comes down to this. My forum ... my rules!
I have very few rules but this is one that I intend to enforce!
PS. I really hate it that we have come to words over this issue. I value you as a forum member and am rather surprised at how vehemently you attacked me when I tried very hard to be reasonable in my initial request. Please re-read my initial post and let's all take a deep breath and try again?
John
Bear 45/70 wrote:
And I really have to question the judgment of someone who would reduce themselves to using ethnic slurs and then attacking someone who asked you (politely) to not do so!Is not the term "wetback" a correct description of what they are? If you think calling a rose by other name changes anything then you are too PC to own guns in the real world. Have fun voting for Oboma or Hillary. Now we have to speak nice of criminals? Pretty much shows how confused some people are, don't speak the truth whatever you do. It's better to lie.Some policy to live by, I really have to question people's honesty when they insist on PC conduct.
I said that you could speak ill of "illegal" aliens all you wanted to. But slurs will NOT be tolerated on this forum! You may feel free to call me PC, stupid or a rat-bastard, but it ultimately comes down to this. My forum ... my rules!
I have very few rules but this is one that I intend to enforce!
PS. I really hate it that we have come to words over this issue. I value you as a forum member and am rather surprised at how vehemently you attacked me when I tried very hard to be reasonable in my initial request. Please re-read my initial post and let's all take a deep breath and try again?
John
Bear 45/70
Regular Member
imported post
jpierce wrote:
Do you have any idea why the term is now concidered a slur, when originally it as the term of illegals? Because the Mexican Americans decided that they felt it was a slur, whether it actually referred to them or not,regardless of the actual meaning of the term. Oh yeah, as a disabled veteran I've earned the right to make judgements.
WETBACK
Etymology
[align=justify]The word "wetback" is a relatively new disparaging term for "an illegal Mexican immigrant or worker who crosses the Rio Grande into the United States, sometimes swimming to get across" (Hendrickson, 1997). There is some debate as to when the word was first recorded. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first recorded use of the word was in 1929 when Foreign Affairs used it to refer to a peon that walks or swims across and is welcomed by countrymen as a ‘wetback’. However, according to the Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, the first recorded use was in 1948 when the number of illegal Mexicans swarming the United States increased by a significantly large percentage.[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]Semantics[/align]
[align=justify]The word "wetback" became widely used when the United States became involved in a military operation known as Operation Wetback. Post World War II, millions of Mexicans swarmed to the United States as the demand for cheap agricultural laborers increased. Between 1944 and 1954, known as "the decade of the wetback," "the number of illegal Mexican alien workers swimming across the Rio Grande to the United States increased by 6,000 percent" (Operation Wetback, 1997).[/align]
[align=justify]As a result, in 1954 Operation Wetback got under way as a national reaction against illegal immigration. Commissioner of INS, Joseph Swing oversaw the Border patrol, and organized state and local officials along with the police. The purpose of border enforcement was "illegal aliens," but Operation Wetback became strictly focused on Mexicans in general. Officials swarmed Mexican American neighborhoods in southeastern states. Some Mexicans, "fearful of the potential violence of this militarization, fled back south across the border" (Operation Wetback, 1997). In 1954, the agents discovered over one million illegal immigrants. Many of the illegal immigrants were deported to Mexico by trucks, buses, trains, and even ships. In some cases, "illegal immigrants were deported along with their American-born children, who were by law U.S. citizens" (Operation Wetback, 1997). The agents used a broad criterion for determining who were potential aliens. They began racial profiling of Mexicans on the street. This practice incited and angered many U.S. citizens who were of Mexican American descent. "Opponents in both the United States and Mexico complained of "police-state" methods, and Operation Wetback was abandoned" (Operation Wetback, 1997).[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]Cultural Adoption[/align]
[align=justify]After Operation Wetback, the term became very popular among American culture as a way of defining Mexicans. Eventually, the term began to be used to refer to all Hispanics in general. To a Hispanic, the word "wetback" is just as derogatory as the word "nigger" to an African American. In fact, in 1997, Mary Ann Vigil took her employer to court after she claimed that while "working as a department clerk typist at the Las Cruces International Airport, her supervisor "frequently" referred to Hispanics as "wetbacks," and, in response to complaints that Hispanic customers were overcharged, stated, "I didn't know that Mexicans had rights."" (Mary Ann Vigil v. City of Las Cruces, 1997). Judges ruled against Vigil in this case because they felt that a couple of isolated comments did not truly constitute racial discrimination or bigotry. However, the case is worthy of mention because it shows the anger that a term like "wetback" arises among the Hispanic community.[/align]
[align=justify]In certain parts of the United States, the word appears to be more prominent than in other places. For instance, according to Dan Marlowe, a Sante Fe attorney from Oakland, "he didn’t know what racism was until he came to New Mexico and noticed how often New Mexicans referred to Mexicans as "mojados," or wetbacks" (Not Much of a Joke, 1999, pg. 3).[/align]
[align=justify]Similarly, during an Assembly Ways and Means Committee hearing in Nevada, politician John Marvel "averred as to how ‘wetback’ laborers might be hired to do repair work because they were good at working with adobe" (Not Much of a Joke, 1999). The assemblyman tried to explain that he was just trying to "make a joke." However, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, as an educated man and politician, John Marvel surely knew that "referring to immigrants as "wetbacks" is offensive to Hispanics and non-Hispanics alike" (Not Much of a Joke, 1999).[/align]
[align=justify]Unfortunately, many Hispanics grow up in communities where they are constantly haunted by the use of the term "wetback". For instance, Rafael Espinoza is Salvadoran, born in El Salvador. He came to the United States on his own at the age of 15. He is now a 30-year-old union leader, the father of the three children, and married to a Caucasian woman. He explained in an interview that the first word he learned when arriving in this country was "wetback." (Steinberg, 1998). Similar to Rafael, many Hispanics, even Hispanic-Americans, are exposed to this term daily. Regardless of nationality, if a person does not look Caucasian and speaks perfect Spanish, chances are they will be called a "wetback" at some point.[/align]
[align=justify]Discrimination among Hispanics is very prominent in the United States. For this reason, many Hispanics have band together to bring awareness to the problem. For instance, one Latin music band, Los Nortenos de Ojinaga, wrote a song called "La Discriminacion" which translates to "The Discrimination". The lyrics say: "We will always be the same, even if you become a citizen, even if some carry permits and others are already arranged, in the gringo’s eyes, we will always be wetbacks" (Lyrics Reflect Social Issues in Mexico, 2002, pg. 8).[/align]
[align=justify]As a result, the term "wetback" is a racial slur that is very offensive to the Hispanic community. It is almost as offensive as calling a Hispanic a "spic". Although the word has gained popularity in the United States, it is a word that has a negative connotation for many Hispanics.[/align]
jpierce wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:And I really have to question the judgment of someone who would reduce themselves to using ethnic slurs and then attacking someone who asked you (politely) to not do so!Is not the term "wetback" a correct description of what they are? If you think calling a rose by other name changes anything then you are too PC to own guns in the real world. Have fun voting for Oboma or Hillary. Now we have to speak nice of criminals? Pretty much shows how confused some people are, don't speak the truth whatever you do. It's better to lie.Some policy to live by, I really have to question people's honesty when they insist on PC conduct.
I said that you could speak ill of "illegal" aliens all you wanted to. But slurs will NOT be tolerated on this forum! You may feel free to call me PC, stupid or a rat-bastard, but it ultimately comes down to this. My forum ... my rules!
I have very few rules but this is one that I intend to enforce!
PS. I really hate it that we have come to words over this issue. I value you as a forum member and am rather surprised at how vehemently you attacked me when I tried very hard to be reasonable in my initial request. Please re-read my initial post and let's all take a deep breath and try again?
John
Do you have any idea why the term is now concidered a slur, when originally it as the term of illegals? Because the Mexican Americans decided that they felt it was a slur, whether it actually referred to them or not,regardless of the actual meaning of the term. Oh yeah, as a disabled veteran I've earned the right to make judgements.
WETBACK
Etymology
[align=justify]The word "wetback" is a relatively new disparaging term for "an illegal Mexican immigrant or worker who crosses the Rio Grande into the United States, sometimes swimming to get across" (Hendrickson, 1997). There is some debate as to when the word was first recorded. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first recorded use of the word was in 1929 when Foreign Affairs used it to refer to a peon that walks or swims across and is welcomed by countrymen as a ‘wetback’. However, according to the Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, the first recorded use was in 1948 when the number of illegal Mexicans swarming the United States increased by a significantly large percentage.[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]Semantics[/align]
[align=justify]The word "wetback" became widely used when the United States became involved in a military operation known as Operation Wetback. Post World War II, millions of Mexicans swarmed to the United States as the demand for cheap agricultural laborers increased. Between 1944 and 1954, known as "the decade of the wetback," "the number of illegal Mexican alien workers swimming across the Rio Grande to the United States increased by 6,000 percent" (Operation Wetback, 1997).[/align]
[align=justify]As a result, in 1954 Operation Wetback got under way as a national reaction against illegal immigration. Commissioner of INS, Joseph Swing oversaw the Border patrol, and organized state and local officials along with the police. The purpose of border enforcement was "illegal aliens," but Operation Wetback became strictly focused on Mexicans in general. Officials swarmed Mexican American neighborhoods in southeastern states. Some Mexicans, "fearful of the potential violence of this militarization, fled back south across the border" (Operation Wetback, 1997). In 1954, the agents discovered over one million illegal immigrants. Many of the illegal immigrants were deported to Mexico by trucks, buses, trains, and even ships. In some cases, "illegal immigrants were deported along with their American-born children, who were by law U.S. citizens" (Operation Wetback, 1997). The agents used a broad criterion for determining who were potential aliens. They began racial profiling of Mexicans on the street. This practice incited and angered many U.S. citizens who were of Mexican American descent. "Opponents in both the United States and Mexico complained of "police-state" methods, and Operation Wetback was abandoned" (Operation Wetback, 1997).[/align]
[align=justify][/align]
[align=justify]Cultural Adoption[/align]
[align=justify]After Operation Wetback, the term became very popular among American culture as a way of defining Mexicans. Eventually, the term began to be used to refer to all Hispanics in general. To a Hispanic, the word "wetback" is just as derogatory as the word "nigger" to an African American. In fact, in 1997, Mary Ann Vigil took her employer to court after she claimed that while "working as a department clerk typist at the Las Cruces International Airport, her supervisor "frequently" referred to Hispanics as "wetbacks," and, in response to complaints that Hispanic customers were overcharged, stated, "I didn't know that Mexicans had rights."" (Mary Ann Vigil v. City of Las Cruces, 1997). Judges ruled against Vigil in this case because they felt that a couple of isolated comments did not truly constitute racial discrimination or bigotry. However, the case is worthy of mention because it shows the anger that a term like "wetback" arises among the Hispanic community.[/align]
[align=justify]In certain parts of the United States, the word appears to be more prominent than in other places. For instance, according to Dan Marlowe, a Sante Fe attorney from Oakland, "he didn’t know what racism was until he came to New Mexico and noticed how often New Mexicans referred to Mexicans as "mojados," or wetbacks" (Not Much of a Joke, 1999, pg. 3).[/align]
[align=justify]Similarly, during an Assembly Ways and Means Committee hearing in Nevada, politician John Marvel "averred as to how ‘wetback’ laborers might be hired to do repair work because they were good at working with adobe" (Not Much of a Joke, 1999). The assemblyman tried to explain that he was just trying to "make a joke." However, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, as an educated man and politician, John Marvel surely knew that "referring to immigrants as "wetbacks" is offensive to Hispanics and non-Hispanics alike" (Not Much of a Joke, 1999).[/align]
[align=justify]Unfortunately, many Hispanics grow up in communities where they are constantly haunted by the use of the term "wetback". For instance, Rafael Espinoza is Salvadoran, born in El Salvador. He came to the United States on his own at the age of 15. He is now a 30-year-old union leader, the father of the three children, and married to a Caucasian woman. He explained in an interview that the first word he learned when arriving in this country was "wetback." (Steinberg, 1998). Similar to Rafael, many Hispanics, even Hispanic-Americans, are exposed to this term daily. Regardless of nationality, if a person does not look Caucasian and speaks perfect Spanish, chances are they will be called a "wetback" at some point.[/align]
[align=justify]Discrimination among Hispanics is very prominent in the United States. For this reason, many Hispanics have band together to bring awareness to the problem. For instance, one Latin music band, Los Nortenos de Ojinaga, wrote a song called "La Discriminacion" which translates to "The Discrimination". The lyrics say: "We will always be the same, even if you become a citizen, even if some carry permits and others are already arranged, in the gringo’s eyes, we will always be wetbacks" (Lyrics Reflect Social Issues in Mexico, 2002, pg. 8).[/align]
[align=justify]As a result, the term "wetback" is a racial slur that is very offensive to the Hispanic community. It is almost as offensive as calling a Hispanic a "spic". Although the word has gained popularity in the United States, it is a word that has a negative connotation for many Hispanics.[/align]
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I don't get it. You just posted something that destroyed your own argument.
That being said, a few months ago there was an "Open Carry Challenge" made by someone who lived in Green Lake area. Turns out he was half-Colville native. Some of the stuff he stated about some gun owners in this state is rather terrifying to me insofar as racial slurs made against him, lack of associational opportunities, that sort of thing. It's really sad.
I don't get it. You just posted something that destroyed your own argument.
That being said, a few months ago there was an "Open Carry Challenge" made by someone who lived in Green Lake area. Turns out he was half-Colville native. Some of the stuff he stated about some gun owners in this state is rather terrifying to me insofar as racial slurs made against him, lack of associational opportunities, that sort of thing. It's really sad.
Decoligny
Regular Member
imported post
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Agent 47
Regular Member
imported post
jpierce wrote:
jpierce wrote:
You value him as a forum member??? Why, In almost eight hundred posts he has yet to contribute anything butderisive commentsinterlaced with hisconstant droning about how he used to matter to society.
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,777
imported post
Agent 47 wrote:
I just can't understand why anyone would attack an entire group of people based upon the actions of a subset of those people. That is what anti-gunners do to us!
Mike and I (and OCDO by extension) stand side-by-side with ANY person who believes in the RKBA and in using legal means to enhance and protect that right. You may be man or woman, straight or gay, black or white, young or old and we will welcome you so long as you will join us in this effort!
Agent 47 wrote:
I value all the members of the forum so long as they abide by our relatively simple rules (even those who are irritating at times).
I just can't understand why anyone would attack an entire group of people based upon the actions of a subset of those people. That is what anti-gunners do to us!
Mike and I (and OCDO by extension) stand side-by-side with ANY person who believes in the RKBA and in using legal means to enhance and protect that right. You may be man or woman, straight or gay, black or white, young or old and we will welcome you so long as you will join us in this effort!
John Henry
Regular Member
imported post
jpierce wrote:
As the forums only Hispanic (?) I could care less about the term wetback. I
grew up in Southern California and many of the legal Hispanics used that
term towards illegal aliens from Mexico. I didn't know it was a bad word
until my white friends told me so. I think American culture is probably more
politically correct then Hispanic culture. Hispanics have
racial slurs for Black, Whites and Asians. They don’t like Blacks or homosexuals. It’s the illegals who tend to use these slurs much more then legal citizens. So when illegal aliens whine about the use of "wetback" it's sort of like the kettle calling the pot black.
I know the media in our country loves to show us Hispanics as one big happy family I have no love of illegal aliens just because they are Hispanic. None of my family condones what illegal aliens are doing to this country. Most of the Hispanics I know who are legal citizens (not anchor babies) do not condone what Illegal Aliens from Mexico are doing either. On my mother’s side of the family, she had relatives who fought for independence in Texas from Mexico. I don't want to see the US turn into a corrupt cesspool like Mexico.
Unfortunately the illegal aliens from Mexico are being taught that
the US stole their land. Most of the Illegal Aliens coming from Mexico are practically illiterate and very Marxist in the political views. Our government is not doing anything to stop these people so I expect sometime in the near future the Southwest will become part of Mexico once again. It’s only a matter of time. Once the Illegal Aliens have the numbers it will happen. It’s sad that so many Americans will let this happen. Sorry for the rant.
On the other hand I don't using the term "wetback" will further the cause of 2[suP]nd[/suP] Amendment rights. My wife who is not Hispanic hates it when I use the word “wetback”, she thinks it’s very classless.
jpierce wrote:
As the forums only Hispanic (?) I could care less about the term wetback. I
grew up in Southern California and many of the legal Hispanics used that
term towards illegal aliens from Mexico. I didn't know it was a bad word
until my white friends told me so. I think American culture is probably more
politically correct then Hispanic culture. Hispanics have
racial slurs for Black, Whites and Asians. They don’t like Blacks or homosexuals. It’s the illegals who tend to use these slurs much more then legal citizens. So when illegal aliens whine about the use of "wetback" it's sort of like the kettle calling the pot black.
I know the media in our country loves to show us Hispanics as one big happy family I have no love of illegal aliens just because they are Hispanic. None of my family condones what illegal aliens are doing to this country. Most of the Hispanics I know who are legal citizens (not anchor babies) do not condone what Illegal Aliens from Mexico are doing either. On my mother’s side of the family, she had relatives who fought for independence in Texas from Mexico. I don't want to see the US turn into a corrupt cesspool like Mexico.
Unfortunately the illegal aliens from Mexico are being taught that
the US stole their land. Most of the Illegal Aliens coming from Mexico are practically illiterate and very Marxist in the political views. Our government is not doing anything to stop these people so I expect sometime in the near future the Southwest will become part of Mexico once again. It’s only a matter of time. Once the Illegal Aliens have the numbers it will happen. It’s sad that so many Americans will let this happen. Sorry for the rant.
On the other hand I don't using the term "wetback" will further the cause of 2[suP]nd[/suP] Amendment rights. My wife who is not Hispanic hates it when I use the word “wetback”, she thinks it’s very classless.
Shy_Panda
Regular Member
imported post
So i'm confused... what was this topic about again?
So i'm confused... what was this topic about again?
Derka
Regular Member
imported post
Shy_Panda wrote:
Shy_Panda wrote:
WETBACKS! were you not reading? This topic is about Bear bucking the system and using a word that Hispanics use on each other, much like black people and "nigger", except that "wetback" actually has a connotation to an illegal act. Now that I've summarized it, can we get back to the topic of the hostile encounter?
Shy_Panda
Regular Member
imported post
Derka wrote:
Derka wrote:
That is more what I was going for, I was aware of the conversation, I merely wanted it to come full circle and get back to the point that it was supposed to be adressing in the first place.
Mainsail
Regular Member
imported post
Well, to get this back on topic, I rode my bike about five miles around the park this morning without incident. I did get one compliment. Not about my Fuji Outland Pro mountain bike, but a “Nice gun!” from a passerby. Admittedly my Sig P239 cost about $200 more than the bike, but it’s almost completely covered by a leather holster.
Well, to get this back on topic, I rode my bike about five miles around the park this morning without incident. I did get one compliment. Not about my Fuji Outland Pro mountain bike, but a “Nice gun!” from a passerby. Admittedly my Sig P239 cost about $200 more than the bike, but it’s almost completely covered by a leather holster.
LongRider
Regular Member
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Because they let you out without a leash or muzzle today. Be sure to put those comments and attitude where they belong. In your poop bag. See a trainer about learning some better behaviour and those anger issues.
Shy_Panda
Regular Member
imported post
LongRider wrote:
LongRider wrote:
+1:lol:
LongRider
Regular Member
imported post
jpierce wrote:
jpierce wrote:
So Injuns and Asians ain't welcome?
Nosrac
Regular Member
imported post
LongRider wrote:
He says, "WITH ANY PERSON"! That should cover it, not being specifically mentioned doesn't mean an exclusion.
LongRider wrote:
He says, "WITH ANY PERSON"! That should cover it, not being specifically mentioned doesn't mean an exclusion.