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Thread: My first OC day - nothing exciting...

  1. #1
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    I have wanted to OC for a long time. The main attraction to OC is comfort. A secondary benefit might be less hassle from beggars (hopefully)- yes, I have been hassled when I refuse to give change to a beggar. There are certainly other benefits, but those are the ones I am looking for most of the time.

    Ever since I started carrying, just less than 2 years ago, I have done as much reading as possible on the state laws and pertinent court rulings. I do not think I know all the answers - and I do still have the fear that the right combination of frightful-citizen, cop-with-an-attitude, and liberal-judge-with-an-agenda can leave me broke and locked up. I fear that there is always the possibility of an extreme, outlandishinterpretation of the law which I may one day have to battle. ...but, I do think things are getting better.

    Thank you, to the many folks at this site who have given great advice and shared their experiences. Your information gives the rest of us the insight to know when and where the law is being pushed too far.

    I took the advice of another member here and bought a voice recorder. I have owned a retention holster for a long time, but never really used it until now. I rode my motorcycle to a friend's place in Seattle, meeting up with some girls who would be riding with us (3 girls - whom I had not met, 3 guys, 3 bikes). I did not make a point of walking around with my jacket off or otherwise showing that I was carrying, at first. When I had to take my jacket off to carry something underneath, one of the girls exclaimed "oh my god, you're packing heat!" That was as good an ice-breaker as any. In the usual shocked/upset tone she asked, "why do you carry that?". I held back the urge to offer a "smart" remark and replied, "for the same reason I wear a seatbelt in my car and have a smoke alarm in my house - just in case". Right after I said that, one of the girls somewhat proudly said that she owned a gun, but did not carry. I think that greatly helped the first girl's attitude, butI knew she was not happy about it. We went out to eat and I OCed at the restaurant on pier 56 (outdoors seating, but inside to order). I felt like there were a few people who looked at me, but I was not going to stare back at them to make sure they were looking at my gun. One of my friends remarked a couple times that he was surprised that I would carry out in the open like that. He actually said "that is so cool". The girl who was uncomfortable with my gun sat beside me for part of the meal. She told me she was uncomfortable with my gun being right near her and asked that I put my T-shirt over it. I said that I do not want to cover it because the metal gun is not comfortable against my skin, and she let it go. When we all got on the bikes, the gun-fearing-girl was on the back of my bike. I did not hear any other comments about the gun from her for the rest of the day - she was pleasant, but maybe she was just more afraid of riding on a motorcycle.

    At the end of the ride, one friend and I ended up at Alki after dropping the girls off. We sat in front of one of the shops and my jacket was off. Nobody noticed as they walked by. Some of the friends that I saw (who know that I carry regularly) were a little surprised that I was OCing. I had a pleasant conversation with another guy who rides. He did not notice my gun for a long time, until I turned my strong side towards him and leaned to talk to a friend. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw him makea pointing gesture towards my hip and his jaw kinda dropped. He was about to talk, but never said anything. He seemed like the ex-military type. I do not think he was scared or upset, just very shocked that someone could do that.

    That was all that happened. I know it's not that news-worthy, nor was I really OCing for most of the day since my riding jacket conceals the gun completely (yes, I have my CPL too). I just wanted to contribute my experience.

    If anyone cares to comment on how I handled the conversations, I will gladly accept criticism.
    IBTL

  2. #2
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    All around sounds like a good-OC-day and you sound like you handled yourself quite well.

    Hopefully you're able to make it to the May 18th Lunch/Dinner so you can meet up with some of us. This month's Lunch was "yesterday" (in quotes because I haven't gone to bed yet and it feels like today), the 20th, but we only had 4 people show, total. Not a great showing, but the conversation made up for it and it's better than eating alone.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    I love your Screen name,:celebrate

    Good to have you aboard we should try and put together an OC motorcycle ride.

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    just_a_car wrote:
    All around sounds like a good-OC-day ...
    Yep. It was uneventful, just as it should be I have read a lot of your posts and I really appreciate your contributions!

    Agent 47 wrote:
    I love your Screen name,:celebrate

    Good to have you aboard we should try and put together an OC motorcycle ride.
    Thanks! An OC-MC day. I like that. Although, without using a tactical thigh rig, it is often hard to OC with protective motorcycle gear. I thought about getting a thigh rig (only for back-woods carry when I'm wearing a cumbersome backpack), but they area little too "mall-ninja" to be wearing in public. It's not the impression I want to send

    I have some things to do today and I think I will probably be OCing. It's too bad that my chores will take me to the post office, and from all that I have read, I really think I need to lock the gun in the car for that one.
    IBTL

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    I have some things to do today and I think I will probably be OCing. It's too bad that my chores will take me to the post office, and from all that I have read, I really think I need to lock the gun in the car for that one.
    If you do, you'll have to park on-street or somewhere that is not Postal Property; otherwise, you'll have to leave it at home. Can't have it at all on their property... anti-freedom, anti-constitutional bastiches!
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Wow. Ok, thanks for the heads-up!
    IBTL

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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    Thanks! An OC-MC day. I like that. Although, without using a tactical thigh rig, it is often hard to OC with protective motorcycle gear. I thought about getting a thigh rig (only for back-woods carry when I'm wearing a cumbersome backpack), but they area little too "mall-ninja" to be wearing in public. It's not the impression I want to send

    I have some things to do today and I think I will probably be OCing. It's too bad that my chores will take me to the post office, and from all that I have read, I really think I need to lock the gun in the car for that one.
    Am I correct that you wear concealed under your jacket and OC when you remove it? Have wondered if that would be perceived as skirting the law. Anyway I have thought about a thigh rig for when I ride. To wear over my chaps. I never ever ride without full leathers, even if its 120 degrees out, though I usually wear a helmet only where required by law. After over thirty years riding a motorcycle, and having hit the pavement more than once let me assure your leathers will do more to save your life than a helmet ever will. Than again I'd have all my teeth if I wore a full face. Anyway my thought was that over chaps a black thigh rig would blend in more than a regular hip holster and a thigh rig does seem to be the most practical way to OC. Any thoughts,anyone?

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    LongRider After over thirty years riding a motorcycle, and having hit the pavement more than once let me assure your leathers will do more to save your life than a helmet ever will.
    Ummm... tell that to the harley (actually,it was a Honda cruiser, one of the 2000cc deals) rider who died because he was hit by a lady @ 2 MPH, just enough to knock him off his bike sideways, where he sustained injuries not compatible with life. Helmets are mandatory, as are leather, IMO. I've never ridden a bike personally, minus when I was about 10, but I've seen enough accidents firsthand, to know that you should ALWAYS wear protection (same deal with seatbelts).


    As far as the thigh holster... I was thinking about getting one myself.. Far easier way to carry, easier draw, etc. but I too don't want the mall ninja look... being 300+ pounds doesn't help either...

    Edit:Syntax
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    When I rode it was fairly comfortable to carry in a belt holster but I could see a thigh rig being even more comfortable. I rode a Hurricane so there is a definate difference in the riding position than a cruiser.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    I allways carry in a sherpa police style on the belt holster it rides below the hem on my leather jacket and on top of my chaps. It is a very comfortable way to carry and looks clean and professional.

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    LongRider wrote:
    Am I correct that you wear concealed under your jacket and OC when you remove it? Have wondered if that would be perceived as skirting the law....
    You are correct. I carry in an outer waist band, retention holster. It is concealed when I have my riding jacket on, but when I take the jacket off, I am OCing. I did mention that I also have my CPL (concealed pistol license), for those times when my jacket is hiding the gun. Also, carrying a CPL does not mean that the bearer is required to conceal. Which law did you suspect I might be skirting?

    Like Agent47, I think a low-ride belt holster is probably the best solution. Even though a thigh rig is probably the most functional, I just can't see myself ever wearing one.
    IBTL

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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    LongRider After over thirty years riding a motorcycle, and having hit the pavement more than once let me assure your leathers will do more to save your life than a helmet ever will.
    Ummm... tell that to the harley (actually,it was a Honda cruiser, one of the 2000cc deals) rider who died because he was hit by a lady @ 2 MPH, just enough to knock him off his bike sideways, where he sustained injuries not compatible with life. Helmets are mandatory, as are leather, IMO. I've never ridden a bike personally, minus when I was about 10, but I've seen enough accidents firsthand, to know that you should ALWAYS wear protection (same deal with seatbelts).


    As far as the thigh holster... I was thinking about getting one myself.. Far easier way to carry, easier draw, etc. but I too don't want the mall ninja look... being 300+ pounds doesn't help either...

    Edit:Syntax
    Slightly OT: Tell that to the people who just as frequently sustain neck injuries because they are wearing a motorcycle helmet. This is one of those arguments that can go both ways. People who want to wear a helmet can argue about head injuries, people who don't want to wear a helmet can argue about neck injuries. I have an idea. Let's mind our own business. Want to wear a helmet? I've never seen a state or country with a law against wearing motorcycle helmets. Don't want to wear a helmet? Great. Lets have that right. Don't force me to wear a helmet because you like them.

    I might also add that being 300+ pounds (you brought it up, not me) is probably just as much of a health risk as not wearing a helmet. No one, however, is proposing that you be required to lose weight and neither should they.

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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    Also, carrying a CPL does not mean that the bearer is required to conceal. Which law did you suspect I might be skirting?
    That was a question. Not an accusation. As I have understood WA Concealed Carry concealed means concealed. I know that without a CWP that the gun may not be hidden at all and must be in plain view. My concern is if your gun is partially concealed or is exposed as a result of my removing my jacket that an aggressive LEO could say I am not in compliance with the law. Not asking this in a vacuum some months back my wife's gun was seen between the seat and the console during a traffic stop. The Officer flipped out pulled his gun on us finger on trigger and pointed it at my wife's and I's head. Pulled me out of the car searched me called back up long convoluted story. So I am asking if there is a line drawn between open carry and concealed.

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    LongRider wrote:
    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    Also, carrying a CPL does not mean that the bearer is required to conceal. Which law did you suspect I might be skirting?
    That was a question. Not an accusation. As I have understood WA Concealed Carry concealed means concealed. I know that without a CWP that the gun may not be hidden at all and must be in plain view. My concern is if your gun is partially concealed or is exposed as a result of my removing my jacket that an aggressive LEO could say I am not in compliance with the law. Not asking this in a vacuum some months back my wife's gun was seen between the seat and the console during a traffic stop. The Officer flipped out pulled his gun on us finger on trigger and pointed it at my wife's and I's head. Pulled me out of the car searched me called back up long convoluted story. So I am asking if there is a line drawn between open carry and concealed.
    There is no line in Wa. It is either exposed or concealed.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    I allways carry in a sherpa police style on the belt holster it rides below the hem on my leather jacket and on top of my chaps. It is a very comfortable way to carry and looks clean and professional.
    Explain this Sherpa Police style belt holster.... Dos it look like this? j/k..

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    joeroket wrote:
    There is no line in Wa. It is either exposed or concealed.
    Correct, and it's also good to point out that there are only two kinds of handgun prohibitions in state law:

    1. Those that prohibit the carrying of handguns per se (with exceptions for LE, CPL, etc), and
    2. Those that prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns w/o a CPL.

    In other words, you can open carry a handgun anywhere you can legally carry a handgun.

  17. #17
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    LongRider wrote:
    I know that without a CWP that the gun may not be hidden at all and must be in plain view.
    I'm not sure exactly how far this can be taken (literally speaking). Technically, the holster conceals some of the gun. Also, being up against one's body, one side of the gun is concealed. Unless the gun is free-floating, away from your body, hanging by a string, some of it will be concealed. There is always something up for interpretation I believe this was a problem at some point in CA. IIRC, there was a case where a man was arrested because only the butt of his gun was visible, the rest was hidden in a holster (maybe even IWB?).


    kparker wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    There is no line in Wa. It is either exposed or concealed.
    Correct, and it's also good to point out that there are only two kinds of handgun prohibitions in state law:


    1. Those that prohibit the carrying of handguns per se (with exceptions for LE, CPL, etc), and

    2. Those that prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns w/o a CPL.

    In other words, you can open carry a handgun anywhere you can legally carry a handgun.
    I think it's pertinent to point out that ANY type of carry within a car, while readily accessible, requires a CPL. There is no such thing as open carry when inside a vehicle.
    IBTL

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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    kparker wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    There is no line in Wa. It is either exposed or concealed.
    Correct, and it's also good to point out that there are only two kinds of handgun prohibitions in state law:


    1. Those that prohibit the carrying of handguns per se (with exceptions for LE, CPL, etc), and

    2. Those that prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns w/o a CPL.
    In other words, you can open carry a handgun anywhere you can legally carry a handgun.
    I think it's pertinent to point out that ANY type of carry within a car, while readily accessible, requires a CPL. There is no such thing as open carry when inside a vehicle.
    Actually if the gun is loaded, in the passenger compartment but not readily accessible you still need the CPL. In the trunk and loaded is untested as far as I know, but I wouldn't suggest doingit. That's why I got a CPL so there would never be an issue in a vehicle.

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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    I think it's pertinent to point out that ANY type of carry within a car, while readily accessible, requires a CPL. There is no such thing as open carry when inside a vehicle.
    I am pretty sure that you can carry an unloaded pistol on you without a CPL. It seems as though the only stipulation in the law is that it must be unloaded if you are in a vehicle without a CPL. Obviously I could be wrong seeing as how I am not fluent in lawyer, but that is how I read the law.

  20. #20
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    ShooterMcGavin wrote:
    kparker wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    There is no line in Wa. It is either exposed or concealed.
    Correct, and it's also good to point out that there are only two kinds of handgun prohibitions in state law:

    1. Those that prohibit the carrying of handguns per se (with exceptions for LE, CPL, etc), and
    2. Those that prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns w/o a CPL.
    In other words, you can open carry a handgun anywhere you can legally carry a handgun.
    I think it's pertinent to point out that ANY type of carry within a car, while readily accessible, requires a CPL. There is no such thing as open carry when inside a vehicle.
    Actually if the gun is loaded, in the passenger compartment but not readily accessible you still need the CPL. In the trunk and loaded is untested as far as I know, but I wouldn't suggest doingit. That's why I got a CPL so there would never be an issue in a vehicle.
    In the trunk and loaded hasn't been tested because the law is very clear that it's illegal without a CPL.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    -RCW 9.41.050

    This is gotten-around by non-CPL-holders through the following:
    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
    ...
    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or
    -RCW 9.41.060

    That means, if you have your gun in the car and you don't have a valid CPL, it must be unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper. It doesn't matter if it's in the trunk or on your lap, but those conditions must be met. Also, the firearm is not considered loaded if there is no round in the chamber and the magazine is loaded, but not inserted into the firearm. That means that you can have a fully loaded magazine in the same closed opaque case or secure wrapper with your unloaded pistol sitting on your lap or in the seat next to you and be fully legal under the law without a CPL.

    Personally, I'd just get the CPL and be done with it, but that's just me.

    IANAL.
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