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Thread: Virginia Requirement To Provide ID To Police?

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    Does anyone know what the laws are regarding furnishing ID to the police? When is it a requirement etc?

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Required when operating a motor vehicle or carrying a concealed handgun.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    The city of Richmond also has an ordinance that requires you to show id to an officer.
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    The city of Richmond also has an ordinance that requires you to show id to an officer.
    Please cite said ordinance. :what:

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    The city of Richmond also has an ordinance that requires you to show id to an officer.
    How can they do that? What if you are out jogging or walking you dog and don't carry some ID? What are the nutcases going to do about it? Arrest you?? You could give them a bogus name and address since you have no ID. They're nuts.

    Damn I hate to see the Nazi-like behavior by my servants in Virginia.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I'm having some trouble finding it online now but if my memory is correct (and this was a few years ago), they passed an ordinance that required someone to produce id if asked by RPD. I'll keep looking for it.
    James Reynolds

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    This should be interesting.

    Although not literally true, it would seem they'd first have to pass a law that everyone had to have ID, and then that everyone had to carry ID.

    If they left out either of those parts, it could get a little tougher for them.

    Of course, if the ordinance only says you have to show it if you've got it, then all an OC'er in Richmond has to do is leave it in the car or at home. Sterile carry.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    still looking.....I know that I'm not going crazy, it was a big issue in the news here at the time. I'm going to email RPD and ask....I'll let you know what they say.




    James Reynolds

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    They did and then decided it was unenforceable. Then they asked the General Assembly for a mandatory ID law which they didn't get. Every time they get a new Chief, this comes up again.

    Richmond has many unenforceable ordnances on the books.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    I'm having some trouble finding it online now but if my memory is correct (and this was a few years ago), they passed an ordinance that required someone to produce id if asked by RPD. I'll keep looking for it.
    I spent some time on Municode and could find nothing about a stop and Identify law in Richmond.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    So basically unless your CCWing or Driving, then you don't?

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    Thundar wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    I'm having some trouble finding it online now but if my memory is correct (and this was a few years ago), they passed an ordinance that required someone to produce id if asked by RPD. I'll keep looking for it.
    I spent some time on Municode and could find nothing about a stop and Identify law in Richmond.
    Lets call it something else.

    Stop-and-Demand-Your-Papers law. Or, Your-Papers-Please-Comrade law. That hits the right emotional button.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    They did and then decided it was unenforceable. Then they asked the General Assembly for a mandatory ID law which they didn't get. Every time they get a new Chief, this comes up again.

    Richmond has many unenforceable ordnances on the books.
    ok, thank you. I'm glad that I wasnt going nuts. I knew that the law existed at some point.
    James Reynolds

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    Thundar wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    I'm having some trouble finding it online now but if my memory is correct (and this was a few years ago), they passed an ordinance that required someone to produce id if asked by RPD. I'll keep looking for it.
    I spent some time on Municode and could find nothing about a stop and Identify law in Richmond.


    DITTO. Nothing in municode.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    The city of Richmond also has an ordinance that requires you to show id to an officer.
    Please cite said ordinance. :what:
    I have never heard of it....

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Required when operating a motor vehicle or carrying a concealed handgun.
    Rosco13
    Not trying to be a pain, but when would a LEO ask for your concealed carry permit? Your gun is concealed so he/she would not even know that you have a weapon. Also I know you have read throughout all these threads that you are not required to have a permit to carry open...am I right?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    When you are drunk at 4am in a Waffle House parking lot and you almost get your ass shot!

    Been there, done that.....so glad that I didnt have to pull the trigger.


    James Reynolds

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    PA-Carry wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    Required when operating a motor vehicle or carrying a concealed handgun.
    Rosco13
    Not trying to be a pain, but when would a LEO ask for your concealed carry permit? Your gun is concealed so he/she would not even know that you have a weapon. Also I know you have read throughout all these threads that you are not required to have a permit to carry open...am I right?
    If you bend over or reach for something and someone sees your CCW an LEO can ask for your CHP. I have also heard that police are trained to recognise printing and are much better at spotting a ccw than your average joe. Any LEOs feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, just something I remember reading somewhere.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    PA-Carry wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    Required when operating a motor vehicle or carrying a concealed handgun.
    Rosco13
    Not trying to be a pain, but when would a LEO ask for your concealed carry permit? Your gun is concealed so he/she would not even know that you have a weapon. Also I know you have read throughout all these threads that you are not required to have a permit to carry open...am I right?
    No, no permit required for open carry.

    If you get pulled over in VA, when the LEO runs your license, it'll tell him if you have a CHP, the LEO may then ask about a gun and the permit if you tell him you're carrying...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    -C4- wrote:
    Does anyone know what the laws are regarding furnishing ID to the police? When is it a requirement etc?
    There is no such statute requiring folks to carry, let alone furnish ID to police, in VA, any of its localities, nor could there lawfully be such a requirement in any state. See Kolender v. Lawson, summary at http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1982/1982_81_1320/.

    The VA AG has opined further that it is not obstruction of justice to refuse to identify yourslef generally to police while being detained even in a valid Terry stop. VA AG Opinion 2002-82, available at http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions/2002opns/02-082.pdf.

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    asforme wrote:
    PA-Carry wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    Required when operating a motor vehicle or carrying a concealed handgun.
    Rosco13
    Not trying to be a pain, but when would a LEO ask for your concealed carry permit? Your gun is concealed so he/she would not even know that you have a weapon. Also I know you have read throughout all these threads that you are not required to have a permit to carry open...am I right?
    If you bend over or reach for something and someone sees your CCW an LEO can ask for your CHP. I have also heard that police are trained to recognise printing and are much better at spotting a ccw than your average joe. Any LEOs feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, just something I remember reading somewhere.
    My roomate was CCW'in (SOB)atthe Barnes & Noble @ Lynhavenn Mall andwas just sitting there reading a magazine, he looked up and saw a pretty girl with tight jeans walk by, heproceeded to check her"closely" for her CCW... of which she was not CCW'in, then he caught the eye of a VBPD sitting at about his 4 o'clock reading a magazine as welland the VBPD asked "You have a permit for that?", my roomate said "Yes", VBPD said"Okay" and went back to reading his magazine.

    Moral- If they see it, they can ask to see ID and CHP, but some just ask and go onabout theirmerry way.

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_...Concealed.shtm

    "The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

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    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    Mike wrote
    There is no such statute requiring folks to carry, let alone furnish ID to police, in VA, any of its localities, nor could there lawfully be such a requirement in any state. See Kolender v. Lawson, summary at http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1982/1982_81_1320/.

    The VA AG has opined further that it is not obstruction of justice to refuse to identify yourslef generally to police while being detained even in a valid Terry stop. VA AG Opinion 2002-82, available at http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions/2002opns/02-082.pdf
    .

    Be careful there.

    The AG's opinion you cite says it is not a violation of VIRGINIA CODE §18.2-460 to refuse to identify yourself.

    However, some localities (Arlington County comes to mind) DO have their own municipal ordinances that DO require you to state your identity if stopped. You don't have to produce a picture ID, but you DO have to state your identity and address. The State AG's opinion does NOT address the validity of any local ordinance on this issue. It would be nice if there were a state "pre-emption" law to deal with this sort of thing. But, until such law is on the books, you need to be VERY CAREFUL about this sort of thing.

    http://www.arlingtonva.us/Department...Provisions.pdf

    Arlington County Code
    §17-13(3)(c) Identification.
    "It shall be unlawful for any person at a public place or place open to the public to refuse to identify himself by name and address at the request of a uniformed police officer or of a properly identified police officer not in uniform, if the surrounding circumstances are such as to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety requires such identification."

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    Mike wrote: I know you're talking about VA, but I want to point out that many states do require you to identify yourself. I don't know of any that require you to show identification documents, but you do have to give your name and, in most of them, your address. See the Wikipedia article to see which states have "Stop and Identify" laws.

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    W.E.G. wrote:
    Mike wrote
    There is no such statute requiring folks to carry, let alone furnish ID to police, in VA, any of its localities, nor could there lawfully be such a requirement in any state. See Kolender v. Lawson, summary at http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1982/1982_81_1320/.

    The VA AG has opined further that it is not obstruction of justice to refuse to identify yourslef generally to police while being detained even in a valid Terry stop. VA AG Opinion 2002-82, available at http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions/2002opns/02-082.pdf
    .

    Be careful there.

    The AG's opinion you cite says it is not a violation of VIRGINIA CODE §18.2-460 to refuse to identify yourself.

    However, some localities (Arlington County comes to mind) DO have their own municipal ordinances that DO require you to state your identity if stopped. You don't have to produce a picture ID, but you DO have to state your identity and address. The State AG's opinion does NOT address the validity of any local ordinance on this issue. It would be nice if there were a state "pre-emption" law to deal with this sort of thing. But, until such law is on the books, you need to be VERY CAREFUL about this sort of thing.

    http://www.arlingtonva.us/Department...Provisions.pdf

    Arlington County Code
    §17-13(3)(c) Identification.
    "It shall be unlawful for any person at a public place or place open to the public to refuse to identify himself by name and address at the request of a uniformed police officer or of a properly identified police officer not in uniform, if the surrounding circumstances are such as to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety requires such identification."
    So, legal manners (such as OC)can be considered "public safety issue"?

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    In the subjective discretion of the court - yes.

    Wow! What a ride!

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