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Thread: Plastic(polmer)knives

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    Are you folks familiar with plastic (polymer)knives? These knives are sharp, can penetrate many hard surfaces, and come in many shapes including spikes. I'm all for open carrying, right to protect ourselves, but feel they're a breech of our national security. These knives can go anywhere, and I hate to be the one to go public with this info(not that anyone with access to the internet couldn't figure it out). They're readily available, and pose a potential threat.Is there a point where things get carried away and open new threats to our security or is it this theprice we pay for living in a free society? We all have free will, and we can't prevent the unexpected, but we can limit the availability of said products. These knives are available through retail in VA.

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    Liberty is a dangerous thing, isn't it? Beats the livng hell out of the altenative, though!

    We are far better off having something like this be legal and maybe having a bad guy get ahold of one, then to outlaw it and only bad guys will have it.

    Relax, calm down, and enjoy your freedom.

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    Hey pk, in my experiences it's not a good sign when a LEO tells you to relax. It's usually followed by your miranda rights. That said, it's not a problem untila group of people(if you can call them that)brings down the Twin Towers with box-cutters. No disrespect to the hero's of 9/11.

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    Placementvs.Calibur wrote:
    That said, it's not a problem untila group of people(if you can call them that)brings down the Twin Towers.
    And open carry isn't a problem until........!:what:

    You're using the argument of the antis, my friend.


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    Besides, "they" could just fabricate a plastic knife out of an ice scrapper.

    Some of the better ones are made of nearly the same material.

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    Until what....? Most people who OC are law-abiding citizens and OC for many reasons including not concealing their firearms which criminals/felons are prone to do. I'm as far from the Brady Bunch as you can get, and carry a knife on me constantly at work where I can't carry a firearm due to company policy. The point is there's no practical use for these knives other than getting past metal detectors. As a LEO you should know that law-abiding citizens have no reason to trick a metal detector. Also, I understand that any object can be used as a weapon if need be, however, I feel these knives open a window to the weak who aren't able to use their strength to over power an unarmed group.

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    Fabricate! You give the cowards to much credit. Yes, convicted felons can fabricate weapons and so can most smart people. Why should they though when a stronger, better alternative is available at a moderate price?

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    http://www.coldsteel.com


    It's not a new idea, nor particularly dangerous.

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    Here's what everyone (the anti's and many gun owners) seems to forget: The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It's not about target shooting. It's not about how to keep arms out of the hands of criminals. It's not about personal or public "safety".

    It's about "The People" having the means to resist or throw off those who would oppress us, whether they be foreigners, members of our own communities or our own government. The Authors of that document intendedfor the people to have the most effective military arms of the day, and said so repeatedly. Any restriction thereof is an attempt by the government to be able to oppress the citizens without fearof retribution."Government by, of and for the People", not "People by, of and for the Government".

    Freedom is about the ability to decide for yourself, not for the Government to decide for you. If you don't like synthetic knives, don't own one. But don't infringe upon my right to own one, unless I'm sticking it into random people. Freedomdoesn't come bubble-wrapped. It's heavy, slippery, smelly, noisy and covered with splinters and needles. It hurts when you mis-use it or screw up. But it's either that, or we go down the road of the insects. And I refuse to be aworker ant.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    They're readily available, and pose a potential threat.Is there a point where things get carried away and open new threats to our security or is it this theprice we pay for living in a free society? We all have free will, and we can't prevent the unexpected, but we can limit the availability of said products. These knives are available through retail in VA.
    My friend, #2 pencils are also available through retail in Virginia, as well as the other 49 States and, I'm sure, the Commonwealths, Possessions and Territories and Trusts. I hear that screwdrivers can be obtained without so much as needing a permit to purchase, let alone a background check. And unless I'm mistaken, you can buy a toothbrush and a disposable razor at 7-11, Sheetz or Wawa for about a dollar each! :what:

    The mind is the weapon - everything else is a tool. Anybody with a smidgen of imagination can convert a tool from one use to another. One of the reasons we are supposed to be at the top of the food chain is that we learned how to use tools for both defense and offense, as well as utilitarian purposes like writing shopping lists, etc.

    It's not the inanimate object that is the problem. It is all about how you use the inanimate object. Personally, I like plastic knives for cutting lettuce and other veggies that discolor when sliced with steel. I also like to use them when carving pumpkins with the kiddies - less chance of fingers coming off. They are much less expensive than ceramic knives, and tend not to break when dropped like ceramic knives do.

    Now if I was to slip one of those CIA plastic daggers inside my tie - for example - because I was going into a gun-free zone with a metal detector at the entrance, there might be a reason for some folks to have words with me - if they found out I did that.

    Or if I used one of those toothbrush cover thingies and my toothbrush could possibly also be used for shaving - but then I'm just supposing, you know what I mean? If somebody found out it was in my carry-on baggage there might be some reason folks would want to talk to me.

    But has anyone ever patted down your tie, or opened your toothbrush cover to see how worn down the bristles are? No? Why not? Is it because of complacency, ignorance, or because there is no history of anybody running amuck in a gun-free zone with such a tool?

    But why would I go to all the trouble and bother of trying to get a tool like the above into a restricted place, when I can use a pencil, a pen, a rolled-up newspaper, or literally hundreds of other items that are just as devastating? See, it's not the object but the mind that is the deadly weapon.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Placementvs.Calibur wrote:
    Are you folks familiar with plastic (polymer)knives? These knives are sharp, can penetrate many hard surfaces, and come in many shapes including spikes.
    I like 'em. I appreciate having the ability to be armed with at least a usable blade in environments where metal detectors, etc., are being used to disarm me.

    I have a two each of polymer boot sheath knives, punch knives and spikes. I don't carry them onto planes for fear of being patted down. They're technically legal under the TSA's published rules, but the TSA keeps most of its regulations secret (I won't get into what I think of the concept of "secret laws").

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    skidmark wrote:
    But why would I go to all the trouble and bother of trying to get a tool like the above into a restricted place, when I can use a pencil, a pen, a rolled-up newspaper, or literally hundreds of other items that are just as devastating? See, it's not the object but the mind that is the deadly weapon.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Well said skidmark.

    If banning guns or other tools could stop violence then noone would ever be murdered in prison.

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    People have been killing each other for a long ass time now. I don't think that getting rid of plastic knives is going to stop that.


    Just remember... DIESEL FUEL and FERTILIZER.... the choice of BOMB MAKERS... Ooops, damn - I meant farmers.

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    PavePusher wrote:
    Here's what everyone (the anti's and many gun owners) seems to forget: The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It's not about target shooting. It's not about how to keep arms out of the hands of criminals. It's not about personal or public "safety".

    It's about "The People" having the means to resist or throw off those who would oppress us, whether they be foreigners, members of our own communities or our own government. The Authors of that document intendedfor the people to have the most effective military arms of the day, and said so repeatedly. Any restriction thereof is an attempt by the government to be able to oppress the citizens without fearof retribution."Government by, of and for the People", not "People by, of and for the Government".

    Freedom is about the ability to decide for yourself, not for the Government to decide for you. If you don't like synthetic knives, don't own one. But don't infringe upon my right to own one, unless I'm sticking it into random people. Freedomdoesn't come bubble-wrapped. It's heavy, slippery, smelly, noisy and covered with splinters and needles. It hurts when you mis-use it or screw up. But it's either that, or we go down the road of the insects. And I refuse to be aworker ant.
    Hear, hear.

    I might add the second amendment is not about firearms, either. It's about arms, be they firearms, swords, stone axes, whatever.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    savery wrote:
    People have been killing each other for a long ass time now. I don't think that getting rid of plastic knives is going to stop that.


    Just remember... DIESEL FUEL and FERTILIZER.... the choice of BOMB MAKERS... Ooops, damn - I meant farmers.
    Damn, I didn't think of that. I've been stocking up on diesel. Bought 320 gallons yesterday. I sure hope I don't have some squarehead snooping around my tractor.:shock:

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    Let me see if I can get this straight. Someone on OCDO using the arguments of the Brady Bunch to try to ban plastic knives by simply changing the word from gun to knife. I can see no difference between the two arguments other than that one word.

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    PT111 wrote:
    Let me see if I can get this straight. Someone on OCDO using the arguments of the Brady Bunch to try to ban plastic knives by simply changing the word from gun to knife. I can see no difference between the two arguments other than that one word.
    Right after all this silliness started, I came up with a line of knives that I ground out of stabilized cowbone. I painted them with thinned epoxy and dipped the edge in powdered glass (Brown beer bottle gave a nice hamon).

    Charged 150.00 each for them and sold them every week.

    As far as I know, no one tried to take over the world with them...


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    OK...... I don't need someone I don't know telling me to relax when I perfectly am, and I certainly don't need an education on what can be utilized as a weapon. I believe I stated that I know anything can be used as weapon. Hell, even a freakin' spork could scoop your eye out.I carry a firearm where ever legal and a knife 100% of the time. My job requires I carry some kind of blade always. However, I don't see the need to be armed in a situation where metal detectors are being used for security. Any incident involving an OC'erwould fuel the anti-gunners more than any statement I've made in this post. Just as there's left wing commie liberals there are paranoid-psycho right wingers.Granted, I trust the fellow members on this blog would know what they're doing, and in control of their anger/fears if they make it through the metal detectors even though the same respect wasn't afforded to me.Switch blades and OTF knives are illegal to purchase and carry in VA unless you're an emergency response person(police, fireman, emt). Before the hater's start I know there are ways around the purchase of OTF/switchblades in VA, but if you get caught carrying it, weapons charge. I don't like the law and would rather carry a Microtech-Ultratech, but have settled for my speed-safe Kershaw. My point with my original post is that nothing was done(by Clinton) before 9/11 to prevent it and now the things being done don't make much sense. This is an example of something available to the terrorist's over the counter, and there's no background check involved. Similar to the training received by the terrorist who didn't learn how to fly a plane, but instead keep it stable until.......

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    They're shouldn't be background checks to buy any gun. The second ammendment was so we could protect ourselves from the government. But if you want background checks all you're saying that needs to be done is the government just needs to charge all of us with felonies first. You're trusting the government to restrict an ammendment ment to restrict the government.

    Secondly, a place with medal detectors is where I most want a weapon. Once I've gone through that medal detector anyone who is bigger and stronger than me can do anything they want and I (or my family) are defenseless. Yeah terrorists can get them, the solution is not to try and ban knives, the solution is to let the captain of the airplane [and any other citizen who should be able to lawfully be able to carry] shoot them (and take that stupid lock out of their holsters).

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    Wow! No background checks...hmm.I'm gonna go on record and saythat there are some laws regarding the purcahsing of firearms/knives I agree with and I don't care what you guysthink because the laws are in place and aren't going anywhere. I like to obey laws, including the OC laws, I've learned it can save you a lot of money. I'll have to disagree with the views regarding my post. I'm not some "babe in the woods", I've had my run-ins with thelaw and enjoy following it(OCing), now. Also, for the record, my original post isn't based on fear, but concern.

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    asforme wrote:
    Secondly, a place with medal detectors is where I most want a weapon.
    "Medal detector?" Is that what they used at the Phoenix airport when the stopped Joe Foss from boarding the plane with his Medal of Honor? :P

    Getting back on topic, I don't believe the widespread availability of common weapons increases the threat of terrorism or aids terrorists or the criminal-minded-- no, a bigger aid to terrorismis theunavailablity of weapons in the hands of citizens making it much more difficult for them to defend themselves.

    As has been pointed out, with a minimum of creativity many things can be used as weapons.Plastic knives? Bah! A totally non-metalic firearm could be made by anyoneat their kitchen table.

    METAL dectectors are not infallible, the weakest link being, naturally, the operator. I'vetaken two standard steel knives through 3 metal detectors in New York City without detection. I'm no ninja or Jedi knight, so anyone could have done the same thing. Most security is a joke and at best will only screen out the most obvious things. Determined and creative people will always be a step ahead of security steps. Accept that. The best defense is, literally, to enable and allow people to defend themselves. Not to force them into a position of helplessness.
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    Placementvs.Calibur wrote:
    Wow! No background checks...hmm.I'm gonna go on record and saythat there are some laws regarding the purcahsing of firearms/knives I agree with and I don't care what you guysthink because the laws are in place and aren't going anywhere.
    That's what the antis thought about CC laws in states like Virginia a few years back. I hear they're saving some crow in the fridge for anyone else who'd like a bite some day.
    I like to obey laws...
    That's a very curious philosophy.

    In any case, I don't think plastic knives are illegal yet, so there's no law for you to follow there.

    The right to keep and bear arms is a right. Background checks, bans, registration, blah blah blah, it's all against the highest law to begin with.

    And what got all those people killed on 9/11 wasn't Clinton's failure to ban the dreaded plastic knife, but the ban on armed self-defense by passengers and crew, coupled with over-reliance on incompetent government agencies to provide a security blanket.

    The solution to terrorism isn't to restrict more freedom, it's to remove restrictions on freedom. Your argument that banning inanimate objects will somehow magically make you safer makes no sense, and to see why just go across the Potomac for a fine example.



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    I follow the laws too, but only because I have a wife and child and have too much to lose by going to jail. However I commend someone willing to take a stand for the principals that the founders of this country fought for. The 2nd Amendment was to put us at equal footing with the government, CCW laws and self-defense are secondary, the constitution has already been tossed out the window.

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    peter nap wrote:
    savery wrote:
    People have been killing each other for a long ass time now. I don't think that getting rid of plastic knives is going to stop that.


    Just remember... DIESEL FUEL and FERTILIZER.... the choice of BOMB MAKERS... Ooops, damn - I meant farmers.
    Damn, I didn't think of that. I've been stocking up on diesel. Bought 320 gallons yesterday. I sure hope I don't have some squarehead snooping around my tractor.:shock:
    Naah, after that they'd know you wouldn't have had any change left over for fertilizer. :what:

    Point is... if someone can kill a bunch of people with common agricultural commodities, i don't think banning sharpened plastic is going to save anyone.



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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Placementvs.Calibur wrote:
    OK...... I don't need someone I don't know telling me to relax when I perfectly am, and I certainly don't need an education on what can be utilized as a weapon. I believe I stated that I know anything can be used as weapon. Hell, even a freakin' spork could scoop your eye out.I carry a firearm where ever legal and a knife 100% of the time. My job requires I carry some kind of blade always. However, I don't see the need to be armed in a situation where metal detectors are being used for security. Any incident involving an OC'erwould fuel the anti-gunners more than any statement I've made in this post. Just as there's left wing commie liberals there are paranoid-psycho right wingers.Granted, I trust the fellow members on this blog would know what they're doing, and in control of their anger/fears if they make it through the metal detectors even though the same respect wasn't afforded to me.Switch blades and OTF knives are illegal to purchase and carry in VA unless you're an emergency response person(police, fireman, emt). Before the hater's start I know there are ways around the purchase of OTF/switchblades in VA, but if you get caught carrying it, weapons charge. I don't like the law and would rather carry a Microtech-Ultratech, but have settled for my speed-safe Kershaw. My point with my original post is that nothing was done(by Clinton) before 9/11 to prevent it and now the things being done don't make much sense. This is an example of something available to the terrorist's over the counter, and there's no background check involved. Similar to the training received by the terrorist who didn't learn how to fly a plane, but instead keep it stable until.......
    So maybe I did not understand your first post. And I sure as heck do not seem to understand this one, either.

    Unless the understanding you wantedme to take away was that you are strongly in favor of background checks being required for the purchase of firearms, and that you feel those same background checks should be extended to the purchase of plastic knives. Oh, yes, almost missed this part - Clinton was responsible for the terrorist acts committed on Sept. 11, 2001 because he did nothing about those things before those acts were committed.

    Hope I got everything covered, and that I'm understanding you correctly now. No sarcasm intended but there is no non-smiley to indicate that I do not intend to be sarcastic.

    You say "This is an example of something available to the terrorist's over the counter, and there's no background check involved" after saying "I believe I stated that I know anything can be used as weapon." So are you saying that there ought to be a background check completed before I buy an ice cream cone? Because I guarantee you I can kill you instantaneously with a common pointy-ended ice cream cone. Using the cup cones may actually require two or three seconds for death to take place because you deploy those cones differently.

    (No, I am not a ninja, have never studied ninjitsu, and never served as any kind or type of special force soldier. I have, however, been exposed to an awful lot of nastiness and learned lessons well. Just saying that in case you wonder how I know how to kill with a cup cone.)

    I do not have the "official" statistics in front of me, and am not going to go look for them. I'm going to presume some things and sit back waiting for anybody to present evidence that refutes my presumptions. I'm going to presume that:

    1 - background checks run on folks who should not be allowed to play with firearms or sharp/pointy things stop only a relatively small fraction of the people who submit themselves to background checks, and

    2 - most folks who already know they are likely to flunk a background check but want a firearm or sharp/pointythings are going to find a way to obtain said items without going through any background check.

    If both presumptions hold water, it suggests that background checks merely vett the good guys and do little to stop the bad guys.

    But you and I both know that making people pass background checks shows that we areDOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT - whatever that something is and whatever the "it" is. Just as checking the shoes of little old ladies for explosives before we let them get on a plane has DONE SOMETHING to prevent some lunatic terrorist from seizing control of a jetliner and crashing it into a building. But the problem is that the previous lunatic terrorists had boxcutters, not explosives. And the lunatic (still not sure he was also a terrorist) who had explosives in his shoe was so incompetent as to be comical rather than frightening.

    I'm going to lump "However, I don't see the need to be armed in a situation where metal detectors are being used for security. Any incident involving an OC'erwould fuel the anti-gunners more than any statement I've made in this post" together just like you did. Metal detectors do not provide security - they merely serve as a means of alerting those who provide security that there is something they might want to check on to see if it needs to be taken away. And any incident involving an OC'er (or CC'er) would be cause for being thankful that someone was there to DO SOMETHING while everybody else was waiting for the cops to show up - if they wanted to, as opposed to fueling the antis. Sure, afterwards somebody is going to say that in general everybody is better off being a good witness and calling 911. But they forget that those who might be witnesses (good, bad, or indifferent) or who might call 911 may also end up being dead or injured while playing that role.

    I am not advocating that anybody ignore the laws or rules/policies that prohibit carrying firearms past certain points. I'm just trying to point out that by creating dead lines (places beyond which you cannot go) you are creating places where there is a greater chance people can become dead merely because they are forbidden a convenient and effective means of self protection.

    If you still think that I did not get your point, I ask that you treat me as a very simple person and spell it out in words of few letters, using very direct statements.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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