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Thread: open carry legal in Reno, Carson, etc?

  1. #1
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    I attended and completed a CCW class last weekend and the instructor recommended against open carry, even going so far as to say open carry is illegal in Reno, Carson, Sparks, etc. I asked if he had the various laws handy but I got a "just trust me, it is illegal so keep your guns covered up!" answer which I found totally unsatisfactory.

    I then asked even if laws had been passed in those various municipalities, were they now obsolete due to the signing of SB92 into law in 2007 and he had no answer.

    So what is the deal? May I or may I not open carry in Reno and other incorporated northern Nevada cities?

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    wayneco wrote:
    I attended and completed a CCW class last weekend and the instructor recommended against open carry, even going so far as to say open carry is illegal in Reno, Carson, Sparks, etc. I asked if he had the various laws handy but I got a "just trust me, it is illegal so keep your guns covered up!" answer which I found totally unsatisfactory.

    I then asked even if laws had been passed in those various municipalities, were they now obsolete due to the signing of SB92 into law in 2007 and he had no answer.

    So what is the deal? May I or may I not open carry in Reno and other incorporated northern Nevada cities?
    It would be interesting to know what CCW instructor told you that. He/she is wrong!

    Following is a quote of email correspondence from the Reno Deputy City Attorney:
    Karen FRALEY <Fraley@ci.reno.nv.us>
    Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:42 AM
    Subj: Re: CCW in Reno

    Mr. ,
    The City does not have any ordinances prohibiting the carrying of firearms. State law prohibits cities and counties from regulating firearms except for the unlawful discharge of a firearm. The City does prohibit firearms, whether or not an individual as a CCW permit, in city buildings in accordance with state law. All city building entrances are so posted.

    I trust this answers your question.

    Karen Fraley
    Deputy City Attorney
    Police Legal Advisor
    334-2421

    >>> ASKRPD ASKRPD 02/27/03 07:51AM >>>
    Dear Mr. Rhodes,
    Thank you for your inquiry. I have forwarded your request to our legal advisor. You should be hearing from her within a week or so.

    If you have any further questions, please contact us again.

    Sincerely,
    Susi Havens
    Secretary
    Reno Police Department
    775-326-6322
    havenss@ci.reno.nv.us

    >>> 02/22/03 07:41PM >>>
    Dear Chief Hoover,

    I live within an hour of Reno and visit often. I am a Nevada resident, possess a CCW permit and am familiar with state law concerning CCW.

    I have heard that Reno has ordinances prohibiting CCW in an area of downtown Reno, but I cannot find anything in the Reno code.

    Has Reno, in fact, prohibited CCW licensees from carrying anyplace besides those prohibited by Nevada statute?

    Thanks.
    And open carry is the same. It is lawful.

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    Please do tell us who told you that total BS. There is no such law.

    Ken

    IANAL

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    Yes, please do tell us as I'll be getting my CCW sometime this summer and I don't want to attend a class taught by an absolute idiot! It's perfectly legal and you will see some folks OC'ing all over the local area.

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    Either he was ignorant of the laws, or he was lying to support his anti-OC viewpoint.

    I OC in Reno w/o any CCW license even.

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    I have to suspect that the instructor was simply biased toward CC, thus his asserting that which I knew was not true. The communication from the Reno City Atty. you quoted only confirms this.

    I didn't post this to give my CCW instructor a black eye, rather only to seek clarification and the truth. I believe they recommended against open carry as a conservative approach to keeping their everyday students out of trouble and weren't expecting someone as pedantic as me (or you or the open carry community) to challenge them to quote the chapter and verse of the respective law which does not exist.

    I believe they did a great job overall, I really enjoyed the class and have already recommended them to others.

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    I OC in Reno every day and my VA CHP is no good here. Even walked past the casino security and a couple bike patrol LEO's on the street - never a problem. Been in7-11, K-Mart, WalMart, manyrestaurant, most ofthe casinos, Cabelas, everywhere. No problem at all.

    I'll be OC'ing in Virginia City in a couple weeks when I visit with some family.

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    wayneco wrote:
    I have to suspect that the instructor was simply biased toward CC, thus his asserting that which I knew was not true. The communication from the Reno City Atty. you quoted only confirms this.

    I didn't post this to give my CCW instructor a black eye, rather only to seek clarification and the truth. I believe they recommended against open carry as a conservative approach to keeping their everyday students out of trouble and weren't expecting someone as pedantic as me (or you or the open carry community) to challenge them to quote the chapter and verse of the respective law which does not exist.

    I believe they did a great job overall, I really enjoyed the class and have already recommended them to others.
    I suspect you're correct. BUT ...

    Instructors should expect pedantics. And they should NOT quote NON existent law.

    I would advise thatparticular instructor so that he/she can correct his instruction. Or I would avoid him/her altogether IF he/she doesn't accept the correction.

    As a further example of frequent misinformation, some teach or advise that you cannot have a pistol hidden in your vehicle.Well, there is NO Nevada law prohibiting a pistol concealed IN your vehicle as long as it is not concealed upon your person.

    The usual disclaimer: I'm NOT an attorney; everyone should seek informed advice/counsel.

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    Let me guess either former law enforcement of female instructor. Some people have agendas.

    I say yes it is legal and you can do it. If everyone did like Virginia City it would be a better place to live and people would start to engage their brain before their mouth. One word of caution on open carry in Virginia City if you expect to not be hassled or would like to fit in then it better be a hog leg in an appropriate rig. Might I suggest a nice Colt Ruger or Uberti holstered in something by Bob Mernickel.

    I'm not a fan of OC only because if it is seen then you run the chance of a person calling 911. Our local dispatchers are not properly trained to ask if the "person with a gun" is commiting a crime before dispatching police and some places frown on it. If they see it they ask you to leave which now your out of luck for finishing your shopping or whatever. What they don't know doesn't hurt them. I still OC especially when it's just easier and I don't expect to be around the more sensitive places. CC has a place and yes it is better to be descreet in some situations IMO.

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    gunrunner1911 wrote:
    Let me guess either former law enforcement of female instructor. Some people have agendas.

    I say yes it is legal and you can do it. If everyone did like Virginia City it would be a better place to live and people would start to engage their brain before their mouth. One word of caution on open carry in Virginia City if you expect to not be hassled or would like to fit in then it better be a hog leg in an appropriate rig. Might I suggest a nice Colt Ruger or Uberti holstered in something by Bob Mernickel.

    I'm not a fan of OC only because if it is seen then you run the chance of a person calling 911. Our local dispatchers are not properly trained to ask if the "person with a gun" is commiting a crime before dispatching police and some places frown on it. If they see it they ask you to leave which now your out of luck for finishing your shopping or whatever. What they don't know doesn't hurt them. I still OC especially when it's just easier and I don't expect to be around the more sensitive places. CC has a place and yes it is better to be descreet in some situations IMO.

    Appropriate rig in Virginia city? I was at Albertos' boot shop in Carson City and Alberto was showing me a bandelero style rig for a shotgun! The rig goes over your shoulder with the shotgun pointing down and has several loops sized for shotgun ammo. All you need is a coach gun with a pistol grip and back to the 'ol west you go!


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    wayneco wrote:
    I attended and completed a CCW class last weekend and the instructor recommended against open carry, even going so far as to say open carry is illegal in Reno, Carson, Sparks, etc. I asked if he had the various laws handy but I got a "just trust me, it is illegal so keep your guns covered up!"
    Once again, gun owners, especially people holding themselves out as firearms instructors, are our own worst enemy.

    What is the guy's name and POC info?He needs to be identified so he can be corrected and boycoted if needed.

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    [quote]gunrunner1911 wrote:
    Let me guess either former law enforcement of female instructor. Some people have agendas.
    You are correct, sir. Former LEO.

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    gunrunner1911 wrote:
    Let me guess either former law enforcement of female instructor. Some people have agendas.

    I say yes it is legal and you can do it. If everyone did like Virginia City it would be a better place to live and people would start to engage their brain before their mouth. One word of caution on open carry in Virginia City if you expect to not be hassled or would like to fit in then it better be a hog leg in an appropriate rig. Might I suggest a nice Colt Ruger or Uberti holstered in something by Bob Mernickel.

    I'm not a fan of OC only because if it is seen then you run the chance of a person calling 911. Our local dispatchers are not properly trained to ask if the "person with a gun" is commiting a crime before dispatching police and some places frown on it. If they see it they ask you to leave which now your out of luck for finishing your shopping or whatever. What they don't know doesn't hurt them. I still OC especially when it's just easier and I don't expect to be around the more sensitive places. CC has a place and yes it is better to be descreet in some situations IMO.
    To be honest, I'm not a fan of CC but I agree, it does have it's place like when in a suit. Besides, I can't CC in Nevada, my VA CHP is no good here and I'm moving in a few weeks anyway. If I'm asked to leave a business, they don't want my money - no problem!

    OC is a great way to detect ignorance of the law on all sides and it should tell people that they have nothing to fear from me. I won't support ignorance.

    The only police encounter I ever had in my years of OC'ing was in Burke Lake Park in Virginia and it was a non event. Bad call from an antipark employee, but the police knew the law and knew their jobs. They were professional throughout and it was a non-event.

    I've been to VC and saw folks in period dress with their hoglegs and a leather thong tied around the hammer - they have "gunfighter permits". Storey County does still have a law on the book prohibiting any firearms and it has been preempted by Nevada state law.We have a member here who is working withthe county and they areaware the laws are unenforceable and are working to remove them from the books.

    I alwayshave a copy of the state law on me when I carry.


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    So the next problem is of course we can't find out who is doing this so they may be corrected and this person is reccomending them to others. WHAT???

    Our problems also stem from apathy of the people to not seek proffesional instruction and keep training. I see many who want the cert for the cheapest price and don't care about quality of training or accuracy in this case. "I know how to shoot I gots me a gun and I'm protected" Too bad the rest of us are probably in more jeopardy than before.

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    I agree this instructor needs to be contacted and "informed" of the law and his very poor instruction/info.

    If the instructor agrees, fine. If he/she doesn't agree, thats fine too; but perhaps the general public shouldbe aware prior to spending hard earned $$$ on his/her class. I certainly would NOT want to spend my $$$ on a class where I would be given incorrect info.

    If the original poster does not feel comfortable doing this himself, perhaps he could send the info via "private message" and let one of us address the issue. Politely and professionally, of course.

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    Have no fear, I'm going to be contacting the instructor.

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    I had a major problem with my CCW instructor. One of the most important things he can do is teach you the law. Mine falsely stated that, as a NV resident, I could carry in NV on a Utah CCW permit. That is INCORRECT. Fortunately, when I got my Utah permit (4 weeks before my NV permit), I decided to check for myself and was able to avoid breaking any laws.

    NRS 202.3688 Circumstances in which holder of permit issued by another state may carry concealed firearm in this State; holder of permit issued by another state subject to same restrictions and requirements as holder of permit issued in this State.

    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2, a person who possesses a permit to carry a concealed firearm that was issued by a state included in the list prepared pursuant to NRS 202.3689 may carry a concealed firearm in this State in accordance with the requirements set forth in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive.

    2. A person who possesses a permit to carry a concealed firearm that was issued by a state included in the list prepared pursuant to NRS 202.3689 may not carry a concealed firearm in this State if the person:

    (a) Becomes a resident of this State; and

    (b) Has not been issued a permit from the sheriff of the county in which he resides within 60 days after becoming a resident of this State.


    3. A person who carries a concealed firearm pursuant to this section is subject to the same legal restrictions and requirements imposed upon a person who has been issued a permit by a sheriff in this State.
    I contacted him to inform him just how upset I was that I paid for a class not only to get a permit, but to learn the laws associated with said permit.

    Tim


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    The ONLY way to correct this is to file a complaint with the Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Assoc. The instructors need to be warned formally to get their act together. Unfortunately most people won't do it or won't inform people of the mistakes of their instructors and WHO THEY ARE so others can avoid it. Remember these people that are coming out of the class are sharing the streets with you. Do you really want them out there not having the knowledge. Most people won't even take a course unless it's mandated hence why some people who come to the classes couldn't give 2 shites about learning it's just something they HAVE to do to get the sign off. They will never seek advanced training and never work to train themselves.



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    Hello all!

    I also e-mailed Karen Fraley. I got this reply when I inquired about open carry in Reno/Sparks:

    Firearms are regulated by the State of Nevada and local jurisdictions
    may only regulate the unlawful discharge of a firearm within the City
    limits. I am unaware of any state statute that would prohibit an
    individual carrying a firearm in a holster openly displayed. There are,
    however, state statutes prohibiting firearms in certain locations. You
    may wish to refer to NRS for further.

    Businesses can, of course, regulate whether firearms are permitted
    within their businesses.

    I think you can expect an officer to talk to you should one see you
    walking down the street with a firearm in a holster. It is also highly
    likely that citizens would call in to report an individual with a
    firearm, causing a police response. Normally, those who wish to be
    armed obtain a CCW permit and simply carry it concealed, which causes
    much less concern on the part of citizens and officers.

    Karen S. Fraley
    Deputy City Attorney



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    It's nice to know that Karen Fraley at least knows the law. That cuts waydown on the chances of a Pennsylvania style mess happening in Reno! I hope you send a copy of the letter to Wayne to forward on to his CCW instructor.

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    I was actually impressed with her. She responded right away.

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    calmp9 wrote:
    I was actually impressed with her. She responded right away.
    Unlike the Boulder City City Attorney who was elusive at best until Tim forced him out of his hidey hole.

    Ken

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    At a minimum, a thorough compilation of communications from various "authoritative" officials, such as Ms Fraley, the Boulder City Attorney, the North Las Vegas Mayor, etc....should all serve as an affirmative defense to any actions taken against you, civil or criminal. Along with a copy of the three NRS sections, I carry copies of the above referenced messages (and I'm now printing the one from Ms Fraley as well) in my car.

    Other than hand my ID out the window, I don't answer any questions from the police, and will not volunteer the presence of a weapon. If I am CC and my CCW is requested, I will produce it pursuant to NRS. But again, I will not answer any questions, other than to say I am not CC if my CCW is requested and I am not in fact CC.

    In the event my rights are violated, and my vehicle is searched (say by an overzealous North Las Vegas cop), and my firearm is discovered, I will then produce the documents I keep handy.

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    timf343 wrote:
    At a minimum, a thorough compilation of communications from various "authoritative" officials, such as Ms Fraley, the Boulder City Attorney, the North Las Vegas Mayor, etc....should all serve as an affirmative defense to any actions taken against you, civil or criminal. Along with a copy of the three NRS sections, I carry copies of the above referenced messages (and I'm now printing the one from Ms Fraley as well) in my car.

    Other than hand my ID out the window, I don't answer any questions from the police, and will not volunteer the presence of a weapon. If I am CC and my CCW is requested, I will produce it pursuant to NRS. But again, I will not answer any questions, other than to say I am not CC if my CCW is requested and I am not in fact CC.

    In the event my rights are violated, and my vehicle is searched (say by an overzealous North Las Vegas cop), and my firearm is discovered, I will then produce the documents I keep handy.
    I agree.

    However, it is said that LEOs are informed if you have a CCW permit when they radio in your name/info.

    I personally opine this is a violation of
    NRS 202.3665 and 239.0115:

    (a) An application for a permit, and all information contained within that application; and

    (b) All information provided to a sheriff or obtained by a sheriff in the course of his investigation of an applicant,

    Ê are confidential.

    2. Any records regarding an applicant or permittee may be released to a law enforcement agency for the purpose of conducting an investigation or prosecution.

    3. Statistical abstracts of data compiled by a sheriff regarding permits applied for or issued pursuant to NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, including, but not limited to, the number of applications received and permits issued, may be released to any person.

    (Added to NRS by 1997, 1174; A 1999, 851; 2007, 2077)
    because, in my opinion, a "routine" traffic stop (or other "routine" encounter) does NOT meet the definition of "conducting an investigation."

    Having said that, I suspect it would be a very difficult battle to remove this policy. Probably would require a court case and/or an amendment to the law quoted above.

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    But isn't it in fact an investigation into a crime? Albeit a traffic infraction (hopefully), would it not still qualify as an investigation?

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