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Thread: Breaking Barriers

  1. #1
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    Something I realized recently is that we not only need the people exactly where we are at the time to support us, but also members of our families as well. Their vote counts just as much as your or mine, they talk a lot, know a lot of people and talk to them, and so on. I've been wanting to nudge my family over to our side for some time, and it's a slow process since I'm literally starting from square one. Last week was a monumental breakthrough towards reaching my inlaws with the message of self defense. Perhaps this might be of some use to you folks. As you know, we have a lot more people out there who simply haven't ever stepped a toe into our world.

    I flew up to Philadelphia with my sidearm for the first time, having gotten my PA LCTF (local name for CCW/CHL) and always preferring to carry when and where I can if at all possible. Even more to the point there's been a bit of a spike in crime lately in the SE PA area. They've known me for four years, knew thus far that I've been a lifelong firearm owner and experienced hunter and shooter, trust me quite well and accept me as their son. I think they even knew to some degree that I had given my soon-to-be wife a rifle to keep under the bed for home defense in the few months that we were parted due to her work training. However they knew nothing of civilian carry rights and that I had for a while had my CCW in Alabama and had been carrying my sidearm every day for months before being relocated to the PRK. So once back in the free world and also as a particular local precaution my holster once again resumed its rightful place on my hip. There it stayed, completely unknown to anyone but me and my adoring soon-to-be wife who was flying in a few days later, until a couple of days in...

    I was in the kitchen there at the house on Tuesday night shaping up soem burger patties to grill that evening with the mother in law cleaning a few dishes as a I worked. I gave her a sniff of the mix of spices and herbs I was working into the burgers. She thanked me for the good work and gave me a nice pat on the lower back...RIGHT ON MY GUN.

    Now this is someone who had absolutely zero family or personal acquaintances who owned any form of firearms even for sporting purposes. Someone who her whole life had voted Donkey party for everything, never once questioning it. Someone immersed in a sea of neocommunism, a card carrying member of the poverty class victimized by the upper class--by reason of money situation and family struggles over the years misinterpreted as medieval class oppression rather than lack of personal financial soundness, lacking education of the latter and sadly suckered in by all the political rhetoric of the former. A person distant from the idea of the robust and capable American by way of living in concrete all her life and strong family encapsulation which although having created a loving, caring, sensitive and loyal person all but erased the concept of the empowered, hardy, self determinate individual. A person whose faith and extremely strong religious devotion had unfortunately turned abundance of charity, reliance upon divine sovereignty, and goodness towards people into a nailed in doctrine of pacifism and helplessness.

    In short, a sheep. Not by being a bad person but by being who she had always been and like the people around her, literally not knowing any better.

    A few minutes later as I was firing up the grill she came out and asked me in a low voice what it was that I had back there. I replied my sidearm, attempting to soften the blow, you might say. She didn't understand. She just had to life up my shirt tail and have a look. The immediate whispered but obviously shocked (though well contained, all things considered) response was "Oh my god Bill why do you have a gun?" Immediately my mind was racing but at the same time it's something I've written volumes on so I felt up to the task. A little impromptu, I know, but I suppose if the need for self defense is on the spot I guess it's only fair that the perpetuation of it be quick, on the spot, and definitive. So I gave it all I had and then some.

    I started out saying that I have for a while and have a license to do so. It's a priority to protect myself wherever I am because I am important to her daughter Melissa as well as to herself and the rest of the family. If anything happened to me they would be devastated. I'm in charge of my own defense because I am protecting what is valuable to them. I immediately went to the armored car analogy as it's the one I personally find most believable. I asked her if she knew what an armored car is. Obvious answer is yes. The guards are carrying guns because they're carrying bags of cash. Perfectly reasonable, right? Accepted by most people at very least, so good enough. Now, I asked her, if the same guard was holding a bag of cash in one and I was on the other side of the guard and someone threatened them which she'd rather be lost, me or the money. A threat to my life is the same as robbing them of me. She'd rather keep me, naturally. OK, how about me versus some politician, as they all have armed guards? And celebrities? Are they more meaningful to her than me? No contest there. So why then if something or someone less important than me is defended should I be any less defended? Ah, a ray of reason. I am important to all of my family, and it is my duty to them to defend myself and my fiance, and obviously I extend that protection to them as I am around. It is a decision to be responsible. Others in this world, and even right across the tracks from them--and they're 2 doors down from that--make bad decisions. Violence against people is a decision made completely without regard to who is on the other end. "Please don't" doesn't make them change their minds--any notion to the contrary is idiotic fantasy. That is simply a fact of humanity since day one. They are going to do so whatever my choice is. My decision is simply to be able to walk away and get home at the end of the day no matter what someone else's plans might attempt to alter. My family will not be hurt because of someone else's bad decisions.

    They had gotten a new car recently which was parked directly in view. I pointed to it. I asked if she liked safety features. Obvious answer. Anti lock brakes, airbags, seat belts, and strong frame are all things she likes. Why? They keep you safe in the event of an accident. Not because you're more likely to get into one. You might drive 20 years and that car may never have a dent or scratch on it. But would she take out them out if she didn't "need" them? Of course not. Would she be without a safety feature if she had the option of having it? Nope. They might get hit on the way to the grocery store. If they don't it doesn't cost them anything to have it anyway, but it could cost them everything if they don't. Getting hit, slipping off the road, accidentally hitting something and so on is bad enough. They're not going to purposefully swerve into a telephone pole, but life isn't always so accommodating. The idea is to have it not get any worse from there.

    That much was understood.

    The rest of that night nothing further was mentioned on the matter. The next night both the parents brought it up, actually the father mentioned it first. I did a brief rehash then elaborated on how reciprocity works, out of state CCW's and how I got mine, what PA's laws allow, open carry versus concealed carry, shall issue versus may issue and how may issue is abused, and how lack of armed citizens brought about by may issue or no issue--or lack of awareness and participation as in the Philly area--is a major factor in big city crime. I explained what questions and qualifications are on the PA CCW form, what it costs, that it's perfectly openly accessible and why it should be. I once again showed them my AL license which is a little more official looking than the out of state I had. They were particularly interested in how I flew with (strangely they rarely fly....), so I gave a detailed account of that as well. It made an impact that personal firearms can be handled in a professional, courteous, orderly and lawful manner by responsible and respectable people rather than being ugly, callous tools of only evil purpose.

    There were no objections or arguments from them at all. I think at very least they understand me carrying and get the general idea. It was completely new to them that someone like me or them could, so it definitely gave them a whole abundance of new information they never even had before. Her dad even helped me laminate my PA license since it's just a slip of paper no thicker than a receipt. I want both them and my sister in law (who wasn't there at the time, so I don't know how much she knows but might take more work, but I have been surprised before) to carry daily as I do because I love them as much as is evident that they love me. I can't say how quickly that will come about as they're very set in their ways but I can say that they're a lot farther along now than they were had it not been that I brought it to their attention.

    Get your families on board. I should hope that they are as important to you as you are to them. Chances are if you're reading this you've long ago established that you're protecting yourself on their behalf. Ask them to do the same.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well written and well done.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.

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    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    You don't have to read every post. It didn't seem too long to me.

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    mkl wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    You don't have to read every post. It didn't seem too long to me.
    I did read the post, and it was a good story, but it's too long and written like a novel.



    Go ahead and read this without thinking "couldn't he have just said that she was a liberal who didn't know anything about guns?":
    Now this is someone who had absolutely zero family or personal acquaintances who owned any form of firearms even for sporting purposes. Someone who her whole life had voted Donkey party for everything, never once questioning it. Someone immersed in a sea of neocommunism, a card carrying member of the poverty class victimized by the upper class--by reason of money situation and family struggles over the years misinterpreted as medieval class oppression rather than lack of personal financial soundness, lacking education of the latter and sadly suckered in by all the political rhetoric of the former. A person distant from the idea of the robust and capable American by way of living in concrete all her life and strong family encapsulation which although having created a loving, caring, sensitive and loyal person all but erased the concept of the empowered, hardy, self determinate individual. A person whose faith and extremely strong religious devotion had unfortunately turned abundance of charity, reliance upon divine sovereignty, and goodness towards people into a nailed in doctrine of pacifism and helplessness.


  6. #6
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    Next time open carry - people are rightly more frightened by discovering hidden guns where they do not expect them. That's why concealed carry is usually unlawful, while OC is not.

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    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    Please elaborate. I need a fuller explanation of your objection in order to understand precisely why and how the length of his post bothered you. Please be descriptive and detailed.

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    swillden wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    Please elaborate. I need a fuller explanation of your objection in order to understand precisely why and how the length of his post bothered you. Please be descriptive and detailed.
    I don't see how a story about someone noticing his concealed weapon, questioning him about it, and him explaining why he carries requires 1759 words.

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    swillden wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    Please elaborate. I need a fuller explanation of your objection in order to understand precisely why and how the length of his post bothered you. Please be descriptive and detailed.
    that was beautiful.

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    Thanks for sharing the great experience! My in-laws know that I carry and they are supportive of it, but my parents are actually the ones who have a problem with guns! They know I own a gun, but neither of them know I have a CC permit or that I regularly OC. I haven't been able to find the courage to show up at the house while OC as my parents, especially my mother, are not really able to look at something like that logically... I have been OC when pulling into the driveway a few times, but I always cover it up walking through the door .

    You experience has boosted my courage a bit!

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    expvideo wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    Please elaborate. I need a fuller explanation of your objection in order to understand precisely why and how the length of his post bothered you. Please be descriptive and detailed.
    I don't see how a story about someone noticing his concealed weapon, questioning him about it, and him explaining why he carries requires 1759 words.
    So he's expressive. If you're not inclined to read that much, that's what pageup/pagedown, mouse scroll wheels, the slider bars on the right side of the webpage, and a whole other host of techological innovations are for. Or, don't read the thread in the first place.


    BillMCyrus -
    Good job with the inlaws.

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    expvideo wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    Please elaborate. I need a fuller explanation of your objection in order to understand precisely why and how the length of his post bothered you. Please be descriptive and detailed.
    I don't see how a story about someone noticing his concealed weapon, questioning him about it, and him explaining why he carries requires 1759 words.
    Your reply was far too brief to be meaningful. Please expand. I suggest extensive use of imagery may allow you to more fully express your intent. You may want to read a novel or two for inspiration.

    Oh, and it was 1753 words. No need to exaggerate.

  13. #13
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    swillden wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    No offense, but wrap it up. I have novels at home.
    Please elaborate. I need a fuller explanation of your objection in order to understand precisely why and how the length of his post bothered you. Please be descriptive and detailed.
    I don't see how a story about someone noticing his concealed weapon, questioning him about it, and him explaining why he carries requires 1759 words.
    Your reply was far too brief to be meaningful. Please expand. I suggest extensive use of imagery may allow you to more fully express your intent. You may want to read a novel or two for inspiration.

    Oh, and it was 1753 words. No need to exaggerate.

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    I've found that taking people to the range and letting them have a little fun does more to change a mind than countless hours of reasoning. Reason lets people understand it but actually shooting makes them feel comfortable with their reasoning.

    I think just being around so many guns and nothing bad happening for an hour kind of clicks on the sub-conscious level.

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    expvideo wrote:
    I don't see how a story about someone noticing his concealed weapon, questioning him about it, and him explaining why he carries requires 1759 words.
    A very good question. The reason is this: to elaborate on the problem so that it can be more thoroughly understood and give as detailed an account of the solution so that it can be replicated by other people as many times as possible. Knowing that they're "liberal and just don't get it" isn't enough to arrive at a solution. All that does is get you ticked off at them and inspires an angry 5 second "Well you're wrong. It's my right, and I'm gonna do it and you should too, but you don't because you're stupid. Stop being stupid." Or, as in the case of too many people--myself included in the past--we just scratch our heads, maybe come on here to commiserate and maybe vent a little, but do nothing to improve the situation at its root.

    I am stuck out here in Commifornia among literally millions of gun owners who do absolutely jack squat to fix the problem because A) they don't care because they've got what they want B) the people they know tell them they're wrong C) the only people they talk to about it are on their side D) they themselves don't know any better E) they're frustrated and give up and/or move away and F) they don't know what to say TO WIN. The consequences are in big bold letters crystal clear as to what happens when you don't convert people. WE ARE WAY F***ING BEHIND. Sure we have the majority of states but 2/3 of the US population is in anti ruled territory and those places make the rules for a lot more than just a few square miles in NJ or CA. THAT IS A BAD PROBLEM AND IT WILL COME YOUR WAY. The problem is that a lot of the same people live among you now. Just like having too large of a unarmed population provides an open opportunity for crime to happen (If you didn't believe that you wouldn't be carrying yourself!), a fence straddling, ignorant-apathetic, or anti population, which will grow because the antis in the big areas are influential whether you think so or not, leaves the door wide open for taking away from you and me what we have now. I didn't think it even existed until I met my future wife, her family, and their friends...then knew that they are what comprise more of America than I thought possible.

    In short, there are a lot of my inlaws out there and you know lots of them. It's bad enough when our enemies are a problem, but even worse that our friends are part of it. As we take responsibility for our own defense we must take just as much responsibility for spreading our message to defend our defense and extend that opportunity to others. We're pretty clear on who threatens our lives by pointing a gun or knife at us on the subway or in the parking lot. What we need to be equally clear on is that the threat originates in equal or greater magnitude at home by taking your sidearm out of your holster right at the doorstep, or it keep the holster off their hip or out of their purse from the beginning. We recognize the problem of "Gimme your wallet!" and "Be it enacted that it shall be a criminal offense to..." but there is just as much a deadly problem from "Honey, I don't like that..." or "We don't believe in guns here." From the latter you are being attacked by millions of people--and many of them you live with right now.

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    BillMCyrus wrote:
    In short, there are a lot of my inlaws out there and you know lots of them. It's bad enough when our enemies ...
    Bwahaha! :celebrate nice one!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    expvideo, next time just use this graphic then you won't have to sound snippy to a new member (Just ignore him BillMCyrus - he's been a little cranky and tempermental lately) :P:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    BillMCyrus wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    I don't see how a story about someone noticing his concealed weapon, questioning him about it, and him explaining why he carries requires 1759 words.
    A very good question. The reason is this: to elaborate on the problem so that it can be more thoroughly understood and give as detailed an account of the solution so that it can be replicated by other people as many times as possible. Knowing that they're "liberal and just don't get it" isn't enough to arrive at a solution. All that does is get you ticked off at them and inspires an angry 5 second "Well you're wrong. It's my right, and I'm gonna do it and you should too, but you don't because you're stupid. Stop being stupid." Or, as in the case of too many people--myself included in the past--we just scratch our heads, maybe come on here to commiserate and maybe vent a little, but do nothing to improve the situation at its root.

    I am stuck out here in Commifornia among literally millions of gun owners who do absolutely jack squat to fix the problem because A) they don't care because they've got what they want B) the people they know tell them they're wrong C) the only people they talk to about it are on their side D) they themselves don't know any better E) they're frustrated and give up and/or move away and F) they don't know what to say TO WIN. The consequences are in big bold letters crystal clear as to what happens when you don't convert people. WE ARE WAY F***ING BEHIND. Sure we have the majority of states but 2/3 of the US population is in anti ruled territory and those places make the rules for a lot more than just a few square miles in NJ or CA. THAT IS A BAD PROBLEM AND IT WILL COME YOUR WAY. The problem is that a lot of the same people live among you now. Just like having too large of a unarmed population provides an open opportunity for crime to happen (If you didn't believe that you wouldn't be carrying yourself!), a fence straddling, ignorant-apathetic, or anti population, which will grow because the antis in the big areas are influential whether you think so or not, leaves the door wide open for taking away from you and me what we have now. I didn't think it even existed until I met my future wife, her family, and their friends...then knew that they are what comprise more of America than I thought possible.

    In short, there are a lot of my inlaws out there and you know lots of them. It's bad enough when our enemies are a problem, but even worse that our friends are part of it. As we take responsibility for our own defense we must take just as much responsibility for spreading our message to defend our defense and extend that opportunity to others. We're pretty clear on who threatens our lives by pointing a gun or knife at us on the subway or in the parking lot. What we need to be equally clear on is that the threat originates in equal or greater magnitude at home by taking your sidearm out of your holster right at the doorstep, or it keep the holster off their hip or out of their purse from the beginning. We recognize the problem of "Gimme your wallet!" and "Be it enacted that it shall be a criminal offense to..." but there is just as much a deadly problem from "Honey, I don't like that..." or "We don't believe in guns here." From the latter you are being attacked by millions of people--and many of them you live with right now.

    Excellent points, and I agree with you. I wasn't trying to be an e-bully, I was pointing out that your post was a bit too much filler and a bit too little story for most people to actually read it on a forum. This post is long as well, but it also has several points to make to justify it's length. Now you are completely free to write however you want, and if you want to writein chaptersand postlong storieson the forum no one will stop you, but few people will actually read it, and thus it will not help many people. I would suggest limiting the unnecessary details in the future so that more people can learn from your experiences, but that is entirely up to you. I should also point out that however long winded your posts may be, you do get your points across very eloquently, and you should consider writing for some of the gun rags. In a magazine, a post like yours would get more appreciation for what it is, and more people would have an opportunity to learn from it.

    So I really do mean it when I say "no offense", and I'm not trying to belittle you in any way. Thank you for taking the time, and again I would suggest that you send this to one of the concealed carry magazines, since I think a lot of people would love to read your story in that context.


    EDIT: deepdiver, I really have been kind of cranky lately, haven't I? Thanks for pointing that out, because I wasn't noticing, and you're right. BTW, that image is hillarious. Sorry, BillMyCyrus, I guess I get snappy sometimes.

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    I had no problem with the length of the story... If I didn't want to read it I wouldn't have... I've got nothing better to do when I'm sitting here at work anyway.

  20. #20
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    expvideo wrote:
    EDIT: deepdiver, I really have been kind of cranky lately, haven't I? Thanks for pointing that out, because I wasn't noticing, and you're right. BTW, that image is hillarious. Sorry, BillMyCyrus, I guess I get snappy sometimes.
    Meh, we all have our moments and hopefully friends who call us on our moments with good humor
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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