Off duty cop killed by Baltimore poilice

Pointman · Apr 26, 2008

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There's a lot of bad stuff and dirty money that goes on at the docks. Maybe Stamp was a bad cop on the take for years and felt invincible. Not saying that's the case, but it fits with the strip club and bar brawl.

LEO 229 · Apr 27, 2008

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Pointman wrote:

There's a lot of bad stuff and dirty money that goes on at the docks. .....REMOVED...... Not saying that's the case, but it fits with the strip club and bar brawl.

I have to say that the "snipped portion" I removed from your postreally was not necessary.... :shock:

Thisguyserved 44 years on the job!!He was shot and nobody really knows why he walked out with brass knuckles.He is dead and truly does notdeserve to have his reputation tarnished and questioned just yet.

What you posted IMO was done in poor taste...

Pointman · Apr 27, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

He was shot and nobody really knows why he walked out with brass knuckles. He is dead and truly does not deserve to have his reputation tarnished [further].

TechnoWeenie · Apr 27, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

Just goes to show that you NEVER know what is going to happen when go out.

I am just puzzled at why the off duty guy would do what he did. After 44 years on the job... he would certainly know not to go for a gun after being tasered by a uniformed cop. And to approach with brass knuckles!!

I know he must have had some balls made of brass too.

I feel for the shooter... I would be devastated to have taken down a guy that had been on 44 years. To think that this guy had so much time on and could have retired twice over now.

Brass knuckles!!! That is old school!!!

Here's the way I see it.

You either have a rogue officer that's making #$^(& up to justify the shooting, or you have an officer who's 'teaching' younger officers to get drunk, get involved in bar fights, bring illegal weapons to said barfight (gun, brass knuckles) then try to SHOOT a uniformed officer....

Either way, that's one F'ed up department, that's for sure.

unreconstructed1 · Apr 27, 2008

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Thundar wrote:

...What is wrong with brass knuckles? Are they illegal in Maryland? Brass knuckles can be bad, but they are only a tool...

Exactly what I have said all along I really don't understand why anyone who is in favor of someone being able to defend themselves would have a problem with brass knucks. I have a pair that I carried every day until I discovered that they were illegal.

I personally believe that there should be no "prohibited weapons" list for folks who have no criminal record, and for folks who don't have violent crime convistions as well.

look at it this way. say someone can't get an HCP, should they be left defenseless? Brass knuckles at least give them some way to defend themselves, same as knives, pepper spray etc. etc.

If I wanted to, I see no reason in teh world why I shouldn't be allowed to carry knucks, a bowie knife, or any other weapon see fit. of course I also don't believe in NFA laws either, so I am more or less considered a right wing nut anyway...

imperialism2024 · Apr 28, 2008

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

...What is wrong with brass knuckles? Are they illegal in Maryland? Brass knuckles can be bad, but they are only a tool...

Click to expand...

Exactly what I have said all along I really don't understand why anyone who is in favor of someone being able to defend themselves would have a problem with brass knucks. I have a pair that I carried every day until I discovered that they were illegal.

I personally believe that there should be no "prohibited weapons" list for folks who have no criminal record, and for folks who don't have violent crime convistions as well.

look at it this way. say someone can't get an HCP, should they be left defenseless? Brass knuckles at least give them some way to defend themselves, same as knives, pepper spray etc. etc.

If I wanted to, I see no reason in teh world why I shouldn't be allowed to carry knucks, a bowie knife, or any other weapon see fit. of course I also don't believe in NFA laws either, so I am more or less considered a right wing nut anyway...

I'd assume that the prohibition on brass knickles and such came along with the ban on switchblades in the mid-20th century, in an effort to crack down on youths. It wasn't meant to keep anyone safe, but rather to give police something to charge people with who were otherwise peacefully gathering. Kind of like how the NFA was designed not as a safety measure, but as something to use against Mafia members.

LEO 229 · Apr 28, 2008

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

Here's the way I see it.

You either have a rogue officer that's making #$^(& up to justify the shooting, or you have an officer who's 'teaching' younger officers to get drunk, get involved in bar fights, bring illegal weapons to said barfight (gun, brass knuckles) then try to SHOOT a uniformed officer....

Either way, that's one F'ed up department, that's for sure.

Cannot agree with you on this one.

You have one old timer that does things his own way. I see nothing about him teaching otherofficers to carry brass knuckles.

The actions of this one guy does not reflect the way the department thinks.

LEO 229 · Apr 28, 2008

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

Exactly what I have said all along I really don't understand why anyone who is in favor of someone being able to defend themselves would have a problem with brass knucks. I have a pair that I carried every day until I discovered that they were illegal.

I personally believe that there should be no "prohibited weapons" list for folks who have no criminal record, and for folks who don't have violent crime convistions as well.

look at it this way. say someone can't get an HCP, should they be left defenseless? Brass knuckles at least give them some way to defend themselves, same as knives, pepper spray etc. etc.

If I wanted to, I see no reason in teh world why I shouldn't be allowed to carry knucks, a bowie knife, or any other weapon see fit. of course I also don't believe in NFA laws either, so I am more or less considered a right wing nut anyway...

I can understand what you are saying. However... brass knuckles against a gun are useless.

I believe most people do not go out armed with anything more than a pocket knife. What happens when the guy with brass knuckles punches the unarmed guy in the mouth knocking out all his teeth and breaking his jaw?

Is that fair when the other guy was expecting a normal fist fight and had no idea?

unreconstructed1 · Apr 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

unreconstructed1 wrote:

Exactly what I have said all along I really don't understand why anyone who is in favor of someone being able to defend themselves would have a problem with brass knucks. I have a pair that I carried every day until I discovered that they were illegal.

I personally believe that there should be no "prohibited weapons" list for folks who have no criminal record, and for folks who don't have violent crime convistions as well.

look at it this way. say someone can't get an HCP, should they be left defenseless? Brass knuckles at least give them some way to defend themselves, same as knives, pepper spray etc. etc.

If I wanted to, I see no reason in teh world why I shouldn't be allowed to carry knucks, a bowie knife, or any other weapon see fit. of course I also don't believe in NFA laws either, so I am more or less considered a right wing nut anyway...

Click to expand...

I can understand what you are saying. However... brass knuckles against a gun are useless.

I believe most people do not go out armed with anything more than a pocket knife. What happens when the guy with brass knuckles punches the unarmed guy in the mouth knocking out all his teeth and breaking his jaw?

Is that fair when the other guy was expecting a normal fist fight and had no idea?

of course, brass knuckles are useless against a gun, but against a knife, they can have an advantage.

fair fight? what is that? i have been in several fights, none of them fair. As Jeff Cooper once said, If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you obviously didn't prepare properly. I am sorry, but if some guy comes up and suckerpunches me, that was his mistake. I don't provoke fights, and I don't particularly care to fight, so if someone comes up to me and proceeds to punch me, he is going to be dealt with appropriately. I wouldn't pull a gun on someone in that instance, so what does taht leave me with? mace or knuckles.

bottom line is, if someone wants a "normal" fist fight, take up boxing. if you come after me, you'd better have a damn good reason, and be prepared to fight dirty. I won't stand for someone to charge me,I'll charge them right back.

Sa45auto · Apr 28, 2008

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

of course, brass knuckles are useless against a gun, but against a knife, they can have an advantage......

On this one I would have to say that it depends on how well you are able to use the knife, and what kind of knife you are using.

When I work in the field, I carry a 12 in Rambo III Bowie knife. If that is the knife in question, I like my chances over a guy with brass knuckles.

unreconstructed1 wrote:

......fair fight? what is that? i have been in several fights, none of them fair. As Jeff Cooper once said, If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you obviously didn't prepare properly. I am sorry, but if some guy comes up and suckerpunches me, that was his mistake. I don't provoke fights, and I don't particularly care to fight, so if someone comes up to me and proceeds to punch me, he is going to be dealt with appropriately. I wouldn't pull a gun on someone in that instance, so what does taht leave me with? mace or knuckles.

bottom line is, if someone wants a "normal" fist fight, take up boxing. if you come after me, you'd better have a damn good reason, and be prepared to fight dirty. I won't stand for someone to charge me,I'll charge them right back.

I have been in to many fights, and I have won more than I have lost, and nobody wanted to fight me the second time.

I have to agree with your above statements.

LEO 229 · Apr 28, 2008

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. However... brass knuckles against a gun are useless.

I believe most people do not go out armed with anything more than a pocket knife. What happens when the guy with brass knuckles punches the unarmed guy in the mouth knocking out all his teeth and breaking his jaw?

Is that fair when the other guy was expecting a normal fist fight and had no idea?

of course, brass knuckles are useless against a gun, but against a knife, they can have an advantage.

fair fight? what is that? i have been in several fights, none of them fair. As Jeff Cooper once said, If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you obviously didn't prepare properly. I am sorry, but if some guy comes up and suckerpunches me, that was his mistake. I don't provoke fights, and I don't particularly care to fight, so if someone comes up to me and proceeds to punch me, he is going to be dealt with appropriately. I wouldn't pull a gun on someone in that instance, so what does taht leave me with? mace or knuckles.

bottom line is, if someone wants a "normal" fist fight, take up boxing. if you come after me, you'd better have a damn good reason, and be prepared to fight dirty. I won't stand for someone to charge me,I'll charge them right back.

I believe you fully understand what I am saying but wish to avoid the point that was made.

Two guys fist fighting, kicking in the balls, and throwing sand in your eyes is even on both sides. Both have equal access to these tactics. A fair fight is punches only. Everything outside that makes it a dirty or unfair fight.

But if one of the fighters brings a weapon.... this is beyond it not being a fair fight.

Brass Knuckles are not as obvious as someone with a axe handle or a bat. The other fighter is not expecting to get a crushing blow from a hand that is being hidden till the punch is thrown. In the dark it may never be seen.

And I doubt brass knuckles are any good against a knife attack.

smccomas · Apr 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

unreconstructed1 wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. However... brass knuckles against a gun are useless.

I believe most people do not go out armed with anything more than a pocket knife. What happens when the guy with brass knuckles punches the unarmed guy in the mouth knocking out all his teeth and breaking his jaw?

Is that fair when the other guy was expecting a normal fist fight and had no idea?

of course, brass knuckles are useless against a gun, but against a knife, they can have an advantage.

fair fight? what is that? i have been in several fights, none of them fair. As Jeff Cooper once said, If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you obviously didn't prepare properly. I am sorry, but if some guy comes up and suckerpunches me, that was his mistake. I don't provoke fights, and I don't particularly care to fight, so if someone comes up to me and proceeds to punch me, he is going to be dealt with appropriately. I wouldn't pull a gun on someone in that instance, so what does taht leave me with? mace or knuckles.

bottom line is, if someone wants a "normal" fist fight, take up boxing. if you come after me, you'd better have a damn good reason, and be prepared to fight dirty. I won't stand for someone to charge me,I'll charge them right back.

Click to expand...

I believe you fully understand what I am saying but wish to avoid the point that was made.

Two guys fist fighting, kicking in the balls, and throwing sand in your eyes is even on both sides. Both have equal access to these tactics. A fair fight is punches only. Everything outside that makes it a dirty or unfair fight.

But if one of the fighters brings a weapon.... this is beyond it not being a fair fight.

Brass Knuckles are not as obvious as someone with a axe handle or a bat. The other fighter is not expecting to get a crushing blow from a hand that is being hidden till the punch is thrown. In the dark it may never be seen.

And I doubt brass knuckles are any good against a knife attack.

The only fair fight is one you have won.

Sa45auto · Apr 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

I believe you fully understand what I am saying but wish to avoid the point that was made.

Two guys fist fighting, kicking in the balls, and throwing sand in your eyes is even on both sides. Both have equal access to these tactics. A fair fight is punches only. Everything outside that makes it a dirty or unfair fight.

But if one of the fighters brings a weapon.... this is beyond it not being a fair fight.

Brass Knuckles are not as obvious as someone with a Ax handle or a bat. The other fighter is not expecting to get a crushing blow from a hand that is being hidden till the punch is thrown. In the dark it may never be seen.

And I doubt brass knuckles are any good against a knife attack.

I understand what you are saying too, and I mostly agree with your concept.

A big difference, for me is that I don't go looking for fights, I don't start fights, and I do everything in my power to avoid fights........so when I have ended up in a fight, I feel that I have the right to use what ever means I have at my disposal to end that fight as quickly and as safely, for me, as possible.

This use of "whatever means I have at my disposal" would include a weapon, other than what God has endowed me with, only if the disparity of force required that weapons use to ensure that I was not injured. (By injured,I mean real physical harm and not the normal bumps and bruises associated with a "normal" fight.)

Thus far in my life I have never need the assistance of a weapon, but I am no longer as young as I once was, so I will not rule it out.

deepdiver · Apr 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

unreconstructed1 wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. However... brass knuckles against a gun are useless.

I believe most people do not go out armed with anything more than a pocket knife. What happens when the guy with brass knuckles punches the unarmed guy in the mouth knocking out all his teeth and breaking his jaw?

Is that fair when the other guy was expecting a normal fist fight and had no idea?

of course, brass knuckles are useless against a gun, but against a knife, they can have an advantage.

fair fight? what is that? i have been in several fights, none of them fair. As Jeff Cooper once said, If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you obviously didn't prepare properly. I am sorry, but if some guy comes up and suckerpunches me, that was his mistake. I don't provoke fights, and I don't particularly care to fight, so if someone comes up to me and proceeds to punch me, he is going to be dealt with appropriately. I wouldn't pull a gun on someone in that instance, so what does taht leave me with? mace or knuckles.

bottom line is, if someone wants a "normal" fist fight, take up boxing. if you come after me, you'd better have a damn good reason, and be prepared to fight dirty. I won't stand for someone to charge me,I'll charge them right back.

Click to expand...

I believe you fully understand what I am saying but wish to avoid the point that was made.

Two guys fist fighting, kicking in the balls, and throwing sand in your eyes is even on both sides. Both have equal access to these tactics. A fair fight is punches only. Everything outside that makes it a dirty or unfair fight.

But if one of the fighters brings a weapon.... this is beyond it not being a fair fight.

Brass Knuckles are not as obvious as someone with a axe handle or a bat. The other fighter is not expecting to get a crushing blow from a hand that is being hidden till the punch is thrown. In the dark it may never be seen.

And I doubt brass knuckles are any good against a knife attack.

:what:
I'm almost 40 years old. I am way past fighting (except verbally with my fiancee

). That is for kids and still immature adults or for training purposes where it is more appropriately called sparring. I'm going to agree that if you want a fair fight go to a dojo or a gym or spar with your friends. "On the street" I'm walking away if possible, otherwise I am defending my person with extreme prejudice and am not in a fight, but am engaging in involuntary combat.

But I think I know what you are saying, LEO229. If two young, dumb, testosterone pumped guys or two angry kids want to go toe to toe, and both are thinking it is just a fight, ie a battle for dominance or social status, and one of them lets loose with brass knuckles or a collapsible baton or the like, it is no longer a "fair" fight. It has risen to the level of combat when both had tacitly agreed to just have a fight. The one with the brass knuckles has changed the type of confrontation without notifying his opponent.

Sa45auto · Apr 28, 2008

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deepdiver wrote:

I'm almost 40 years old........ "On the street" I'm walking away if possible, otherwise I am defending my person with extreme prejudice and am not in a fight, but am engaging in involuntary combat........

I like the way you put that.

The truth is that since I never have started a fight, I guess, regardless of my age, that is the way it has always been for me.

Gee at "almost 40" you are still a pup.

For me, at my age, I work out with the heavy bag and practice with my gun, so that I will have a chance to win that "involuntary combat" that I train for, but hope I never see.

LEO 229 · Apr 28, 2008

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Sa45auto wrote:

deepdiver wrote:

I'm almost 40 years old........ "On the street" I'm walking away if possible, otherwise I am defending my person with extreme prejudice and am not in a fight, but am engaging in involuntary combat........

Click to expand...

I like the way you put that.

The truth is that since I never have started a fight, I guess, regardless of my age, that is the way it has always been for me.

Gee at "almost 40" you are still a pup.

For me, at my age, I work out with the heavy bag and practice with my gun, so that I will have a chance to win that "involuntary combat" that I train for, but hope I never see.

I agree... I like the term combat.

deepdiver · Apr 28, 2008

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Sa45auto wrote:

deepdiver wrote:

I'm almost 40 years old........ "On the street" I'm walking away if possible, otherwise I am defending my person with extreme prejudice and am not in a fight, but am engaging in involuntary combat........

Click to expand...

I like the way you put that.

The truth is that since I never have started a fight, I guess, regardless of my age, that is the way it has always been for me.

Gee at "almost 40" you are still a pup.

For me, at my age, I work out with the heavy bag and practice with my gun, so that I will have a chance to win that "involuntary combat" that I train for, but hope I never see.

Well, I'm about 6 months away and am not feeling like a pup anymore, especially after a hard day at the gym or a hard round of sparring.

Too many years sitting at a desk, not enough SCUBA.

Sa45auto · Apr 28, 2008

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deepdiver wrote:

Sa45auto wrote:

deepdiver wrote:

I'm almost 40 years old........ "On the street" I'm walking away if possible, otherwise I am defending my person with extreme prejudice and am not in a fight, but am engaging in involuntary combat........

Click to expand...

I like the way you put that.

The truth is that since I never have started a fight, I guess, regardless of my age, that is the way it has always been for me.

Gee at "almost 40" you are still a pup.

For me, at my age, I work out with the heavy bag and practice with my gun, so that I will have a chance to win that "involuntary combat" that I train for, but hope I never see.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm about 6 months away and am not feeling like a pup anymore, especially after a hard day at the gym or a hard round of sparring. Too many years sitting at a desk, not enough SCUBA.

All things are relative.

Off duty cop killed by Baltimore poilice

Pointman

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LEO 229

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Pointman

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TechnoWeenie

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unreconstructed1

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imperialism2024

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LEO 229

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