• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Temporary 21 and old places of business

U

uncoolperson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
608
Location
Bellingham, ,
imported post

what's your opinion? lawyer or not?

There are few bars in town that are open to minors for some hours of the day.

Is it legal to carry there?
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

My non-lawyer opinion is that as long as Minors are allowed, so is your gun. It's only when the area becomes "No Minors" in accordance with the WA Liquor Control Board that your gun is no longer legally welcome.
 
C

carhas0

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
161
Location
, ,
imported post

just_a_car wrote:
My non-lawyer opinion is that as long as Minors are allowed, so is your gun. It's only when the area becomes "No Minors" in accordance with the WA Liquor Control Board that your gun is no longer legally welcome.
Click to expand...
That would be my interpretation as well, but I am not a lawyer and cannot offer legal advice.
 
S

spike89

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
110
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
imported post

just_a_car wrote:
My non-lawyer opinion is that as long as Minors are allowed, so is your gun. It's only when the area becomes "No Minors" in accordance with the WA Liquor Control Board that your gun is no longer legally welcome.
Click to expand...

+1
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

I actually wrote Rep. Mike Sells this same question. There was no definitive answer available but it was his opinion that firearms would no be restricted during the hours that it was open to all ages. I have tried and failed to get a response from the liquor control board for a definitive answer.

We may need to write our reps and ask that the law be modified as these establishments having all ages during the day and then restricting ages at night are becoming more and more popular and all of tem have a weapons warning sign posted.
 
E

expvideo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
1,487
Location
Lynnwood, WA, ,
imported post

joeroket wrote:
I actually wrote Rep. Mike Sells this same question. There was no definitive answer available but it was his opinion that firearms would no be restricted during the hours that it was open to all ages. I have tried and failed to get a response from the liquor control board for a definitive answer.

We may need to write our reps and ask that the law be modified as these establishments having all ages during the day and then restricting ages at night are becoming more and more popular and all of tem have a weapons warning sign posted.
Click to expand...
You don't need a definitive answer, and the law doesn't need to be changed. The law is very clear as it is. If minors aren't allowed, neither is your gun. If they are allowed, so is your gun. It's there in black and white and doesn't need any clarification. It is already clearly written. If someone under 21 can enter the area legally, so can your gun. Period.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

expvideo wrote:
joeroket wrote:
I actually wrote Rep. Mike Sells this same question. There was no definitive answer available but it was his opinion that firearms would no be restricted during the hours that it was open to all ages. I have tried and failed to get a response from the liquor control board for a definitive answer.

We may need to write our reps and ask that the law be modified as these establishments having all ages during the day and then restricting ages at night are becoming more and more popular and all of tem have a weapons warning sign posted.
Click to expand...
You don't need a definitive answer, and the law doesn't need to be changed. The law is very clear as it is. If minors aren't allowed, neither is your gun. If they are allowed, so is your gun. It's there in black and white and doesn't need any clarification. It is already clearly written. If someone under 21 can enter the area legally, so can your gun. Period.
Click to expand...
Your wrong. People under 21 are allowed to enter an area if it is off limits to persons under 21 to pass through to an area that is not off limits. The law does need clarify this new style of lounge/restaraunt. If they do not then it could come down to a court battle and cost someone money.
 
S

surfj9009

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
639
Location
Spokane, WA, ,
imported post

expvideo wrote:
You don't need a definitive answer, and the law doesn't need to be changed. The law is very clear as it is. If minors aren't allowed, neither is your gun. If they are allowed, so is your gun. It's there in black and white and doesn't need any clarification. It is already clearly written. If someone under 21 can enter the area legally, so can your gun. Period.
Click to expand...
+1
"If it is not specifically prohibited by statute, it is legal!!!"
 
E

expvideo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
1,487
Location
Lynnwood, WA, ,
imported post

joeroket wrote:
expvideo wrote:
joeroket wrote:
I actually wrote Rep. Mike Sells this same question. There was no definitive answer available but it was his opinion that firearms would no be restricted during the hours that it was open to all ages. I have tried and failed to get a response from the liquor control board for a definitive answer.

We may need to write our reps and ask that the law be modified as these establishments having all ages during the day and then restricting ages at night are becoming more and more popular and all of tem have a weapons warning sign posted.
Click to expand...
You don't need a definitive answer, and the law doesn't need to be changed. The law is very clear as it is. If minors aren't allowed, neither is your gun. If they are allowed, so is your gun. It's there in black and white and doesn't need any clarification. It is already clearly written. If someone under 21 can enter the area legally, so can your gun. Period.
Click to expand...
Your wrong. People under 21 are allowed to enter an area if it is off limits to persons under 21 to pass through to an area that is not off limits. The law does need clarify this new style of lounge/restaraunt. If they do not then it could come down to a court battle and cost someone money.
Click to expand...
No, you are wrong. Read the law. I've read it. In fact I've read it so many times, I could practically quote it. It is"areas of an establishmentthat the liqour control board has designated off limits to minors under 21" or something to the point of that. Since the liqour control board allows minors durring certain hours, it also allows your gun. And NO minors are not allowed to pass through a bar section to use the bathroom or to get to a non-restricted area. If the bar is allowing them to do that, they are breaking the law.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
imported post

expvideo wrote:
No, you are wrong. Read the law. I've read it. In fact I've read it so many times, I could practically quote it. It is"areas of an establishmentthat the liqour control board has designated off limits to minors under 21" or something to the point of that. Since the liqour control board allows minors durring certain hours, it also allows your gun. And NO minors are not allowed to pass through a bar section to use the bathroom or to get to a non-restricted area. If the bar is allowing them to do that, they are breaking the law.
Click to expand...
expvideo is correct; if it is a "No Minors" area, then minors may not "pass through" as you are suggesting. It is illegal.

I had to chastise a waitress for leading my family through the bar at Black Angus in Lynnwood to a booth on the other side of the restaurant because my sister was 18 at the time. I was really pissed because I was CC'ing at the time, but my family doesn't know I carry, nor own, a handgun. So, I had to go along, chastise the waitress, and from there on, go through the "back way" where all the servers were going through to get to the other side of the restaurant.

The waitress said she had just moved from New York and wasn't aware of the law here on that. She went and checked with her boss and/or the bartender and, when she came back, she said they affirmed my concerns that it was illegal.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

Ok I concede. It is only legal to allow minors to pass through if the premises is licensed as a private club. I remembered incorrectly. Also Expvideo the law you are talking about is the firearms law. The one I was talking about is under section 66 of the RCW's.
 
I

Izzle

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
157
Location
, ,
imported post

just_a_car wrote:
expvideo wrote:
No, you are wrong. Read the law. I've read it. In fact I've read it so many times, I could practically quote it. It is"areas of an establishmentthat the liqour control board has designated off limits to minors under 21" or something to the point of that. Since the liqour control board allows minors durring certain hours, it also allows your gun. And NO minors are not allowed to pass through a bar section to use the bathroom or to get to a non-restricted area. If the bar is allowing them to do that, they are breaking the law.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Are you sure that minors cannot cross through the bar section? I remember during my days of being under 21 I would go with my family to the local casino which is 21 and up and serves alcohol. We would go here often to eat because they had really good food and I was allowed to walk through the 21 and up area but i had to be escorted.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

Expvideo is correct. I double checked the liquor laws after his post. There is nothing in the laws that allow for a minor to pass through a public establishment, only exceptions for working as a server or entertainer whether it is indian run or not. They do however have to enter into a business contract with the liquor board and I have no idea what is included in the contract. There may possibly be an exception for that.
 
I

Izzle

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
157
Location
, ,
imported post

joeroket wrote:
Expvideo is correct. I double checked the liquor laws after his post. There is nothing in the laws that allow for a minor to pass through a public establishment, only exceptions for working as a server or entertainer whether it is indian run or not. They do however have to enter into a business contract with the liquor board and I have no idea what is included in the contract. There may possibly be an exception for that.
Click to expand...
well i guess that it was just their policy then because if I’m correct i don’t believe that indian reservations even have to follow that law since they are a sovereign nation i know that most state laws if any don't apply to them.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

Izzle wrote:
joeroket wrote:
Expvideo is correct. I double checked the liquor laws after his post. There is nothing in the laws that allow for a minor to pass through a public establishment, only exceptions for working as a server or entertainer whether it is indian run or not. They do however have to enter into a business contract with the liquor board and I have no idea what is included in the contract. There may possibly be an exception for that.
Click to expand...
well i guess that it was just their policy then because if I’m correct i don’t believe that indian reservations even have to follow that law since they are a sovereign nation i know that most state laws if any don't apply to them.
Click to expand...
They do have to follow state law for liquor.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=314-37-010
 
I

Izzle

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
157
Location
, ,
imported post

ah good find good find i never fail to learn something new on this board haha
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

Izzle wrote:
i never fail to learn something new on this board haha
Click to expand...
Same here. The guys on the board, thankfully are not afraid to call you on something, like this thread, which leads to a better education in the laws I think.
 
I

Izzle

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
157
Location
, ,
imported post

exactly, and they do it in a non condescending way its really a great forum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top