imported post
This is going to be long, as I want to include as many details as possible, both for my future reference and for those who it may help to deal with police encounters. This was my first experience with very vocal anti-gunners while OCing, as well as my first police encounter.
Today I went to a Starbucks in North Seattle, OCing. I ordered my drink and sat down, and nobody seemed to notice or at least make it obvious that they noticed. I was sitting fairly close to the entrance, with my strong side to the door.
Round 1:
I had been sitting for a while, reading an assigned paper when a guy came in and stopped in front of me. He asked "Are you carrying a handgun?" to which I responded "Yes." He told me that he was sure I was legal and had the proper permit, but that he just wanted to let me know that he "took issue" with it. I told him that was fine, and he went on his way. I'm not sure if he ordered a drink or not, but he left pretty quickly.
Round 2:
This of course got the attention of people around me, and a second later a woman behind me to my right facing the opposite way slid her chair back, looked at my gun and asked when if I had just graduated from "the academy," to which I responded "no." She then asked if I was with SPD, to which I also responded no. She said the usual thing that my gun should be concealed in public and asked if I had a license and asked me why I carried open. I told her there was no legal requirement to conceal and no license needed to OC and that I was OCing to raise awareness about firearms and to show that "normal" people carry guns for self defense.
Thankfully I had printed the SPD "Legal Bulletin" just posted recently and was able to show her where it laid out the difference between an "unlawful display" violation and open carry. She told me that I was alarming people and I gave the usual response about the fact that I can't control how people feel but that I was not warranting alarm, again referencing the SPD bulletin.
She then tried to tell me that I was making people think I was a police officer and her reasoning was that she looked for a badge on me so I must be impersonating an officer. I told her I was in no way giving that impression; I was not wearing a badge or police clothing or anything of the sort.
There may have been some issues she brought up that I forgot, but those are the main ones. So she scooted her chair back in and I hear her friend say "I just looked it up and it is legal."
Round 3:
I went back to my reading and had no problems for about 20-30 minutes, when I see an SPD officer walking in. He walks up to me and asks "Are you the popo?" to which I again responded "no." He was standing at my strong side. A female officer walked in and stood in front of me. The male officer asked me if I had a CPL and where it was. I responded that he should know I don't need a CPL to OC but that I did have one and it was in my back right pocket. He then held my gun in the holster and told me I could get my wallet, which I did very slowly. I got out my CPL and gave it to the female officer. She looked at it and said something like "Oh, I don't know who you are, can I see your ID," which I gave her.
She said that the CPL says "concealed" for a reason and I responded that is because it is used when you are concealing, but is not a requirement to conceal. She also asked why I was carrying openly, and I gave the same response as above. I referenced the SPD training bulletin in my pocket and told the male officer he could get it if he wanted. They didn't seem to want to see it. The female officer then said sorry they had to bug me, but someone had called and that was to be expected around here. I mentioned the fact that their training bulletin talks about the dispatcher's responsibility in getting information to distinguish between a crime and open carry.
A little later, the female officer said "we are gun people too" and that they understand the want to educate people about firearms. After talking a little about not needing a CPL to OC they eventually looked at the training bulletin. The male officer said "Oh yeah, I have that" and the female officer said she must have been gone when it was issued. The male officer left and the female officer was leaving when the woman who talked to me called her back and asked how many calls had been made to 911. The officer responded she did not know, but she thought only one. The officer and the woman talked for a while and I could not hear the conversation, but I think the woman may have been involved in law enforcement somehow.
So I stuck around for another 20-30 minutes after the officers left. When I left to walk back home I passed the male officer in his car and the female officer at his window. I waved and said "bye" as I passed and she said "good luck."
Overall, I think it went fairly well. The major criticim I am anticipating is that I gave my CPL and ID to the officers. As I said above, this was my first police encounter, and I was pretty nervous. I was actually surprised at how vocal I was about the fact that I was not required to give my CPL, which the female officer seemed confused about but eventually said that maybe she was getting the laws confused. I told them that because they were trying not to hastle me I didn't want to hastle them (I know that will generate the usual "lie on your back while they scratch your tummy" responses, but like I said, I was pretty nervous). The other reason I wanted to cooperate was that I thought it would look better to the many people who were no doubt staring at me at this point if I cooperated.
That's all I can think of now, but like I said above, I think it went well. The officers knew about OC, didn't disarm me (the male officer stopped holding my gun soon after I got my wallet and kept my hands clasped on the table), and said they are gun people and understand what I was doing. And, of course, a Starbuck's full of people got to see a law-abiding, gun-carrying citizen be contacted and then left alone by the police.
This is going to be long, as I want to include as many details as possible, both for my future reference and for those who it may help to deal with police encounters. This was my first experience with very vocal anti-gunners while OCing, as well as my first police encounter.
Today I went to a Starbucks in North Seattle, OCing. I ordered my drink and sat down, and nobody seemed to notice or at least make it obvious that they noticed. I was sitting fairly close to the entrance, with my strong side to the door.
Round 1:
I had been sitting for a while, reading an assigned paper when a guy came in and stopped in front of me. He asked "Are you carrying a handgun?" to which I responded "Yes." He told me that he was sure I was legal and had the proper permit, but that he just wanted to let me know that he "took issue" with it. I told him that was fine, and he went on his way. I'm not sure if he ordered a drink or not, but he left pretty quickly.
Round 2:
This of course got the attention of people around me, and a second later a woman behind me to my right facing the opposite way slid her chair back, looked at my gun and asked when if I had just graduated from "the academy," to which I responded "no." She then asked if I was with SPD, to which I also responded no. She said the usual thing that my gun should be concealed in public and asked if I had a license and asked me why I carried open. I told her there was no legal requirement to conceal and no license needed to OC and that I was OCing to raise awareness about firearms and to show that "normal" people carry guns for self defense.
Thankfully I had printed the SPD "Legal Bulletin" just posted recently and was able to show her where it laid out the difference between an "unlawful display" violation and open carry. She told me that I was alarming people and I gave the usual response about the fact that I can't control how people feel but that I was not warranting alarm, again referencing the SPD bulletin.
She then tried to tell me that I was making people think I was a police officer and her reasoning was that she looked for a badge on me so I must be impersonating an officer. I told her I was in no way giving that impression; I was not wearing a badge or police clothing or anything of the sort.
There may have been some issues she brought up that I forgot, but those are the main ones. So she scooted her chair back in and I hear her friend say "I just looked it up and it is legal."
Round 3:
I went back to my reading and had no problems for about 20-30 minutes, when I see an SPD officer walking in. He walks up to me and asks "Are you the popo?" to which I again responded "no." He was standing at my strong side. A female officer walked in and stood in front of me. The male officer asked me if I had a CPL and where it was. I responded that he should know I don't need a CPL to OC but that I did have one and it was in my back right pocket. He then held my gun in the holster and told me I could get my wallet, which I did very slowly. I got out my CPL and gave it to the female officer. She looked at it and said something like "Oh, I don't know who you are, can I see your ID," which I gave her.
She said that the CPL says "concealed" for a reason and I responded that is because it is used when you are concealing, but is not a requirement to conceal. She also asked why I was carrying openly, and I gave the same response as above. I referenced the SPD training bulletin in my pocket and told the male officer he could get it if he wanted. They didn't seem to want to see it. The female officer then said sorry they had to bug me, but someone had called and that was to be expected around here. I mentioned the fact that their training bulletin talks about the dispatcher's responsibility in getting information to distinguish between a crime and open carry.
A little later, the female officer said "we are gun people too" and that they understand the want to educate people about firearms. After talking a little about not needing a CPL to OC they eventually looked at the training bulletin. The male officer said "Oh yeah, I have that" and the female officer said she must have been gone when it was issued. The male officer left and the female officer was leaving when the woman who talked to me called her back and asked how many calls had been made to 911. The officer responded she did not know, but she thought only one. The officer and the woman talked for a while and I could not hear the conversation, but I think the woman may have been involved in law enforcement somehow.
So I stuck around for another 20-30 minutes after the officers left. When I left to walk back home I passed the male officer in his car and the female officer at his window. I waved and said "bye" as I passed and she said "good luck."
Overall, I think it went fairly well. The major criticim I am anticipating is that I gave my CPL and ID to the officers. As I said above, this was my first police encounter, and I was pretty nervous. I was actually surprised at how vocal I was about the fact that I was not required to give my CPL, which the female officer seemed confused about but eventually said that maybe she was getting the laws confused. I told them that because they were trying not to hastle me I didn't want to hastle them (I know that will generate the usual "lie on your back while they scratch your tummy" responses, but like I said, I was pretty nervous). The other reason I wanted to cooperate was that I thought it would look better to the many people who were no doubt staring at me at this point if I cooperated.
That's all I can think of now, but like I said above, I think it went well. The officers knew about OC, didn't disarm me (the male officer stopped holding my gun soon after I got my wallet and kept my hands clasped on the table), and said they are gun people and understand what I was doing. And, of course, a Starbuck's full of people got to see a law-abiding, gun-carrying citizen be contacted and then left alone by the police.