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Thread: Patrick Henry Mall

  1. #1
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    After having a nice meal with my wife at Bonefish Grill for her birthday, she wanted to go spend a gift card for Victoria Secret. We headed over to Patrick Henry Mall. I usually OC and figured before I ever got to the door that I would find a Ghostbuster sign and have to head back to the truck.

    To my suprise, there were no signs--more on that later. We spend about an hour in the mall--her in Victoria Secret, me waiting outside the store window shopping at different locations. She makes her purchase and we head back out of the mall--through Dillards. She decides she wants to look at the shoes so I tkae a seat because I know this is going to be a marathon shopping trip.

    After awhile I decide to head to the men's room. On the way I see a woman standing outside the restroom area but don't give her a second thought. I do my business and begin washing my hands. Another gentleman in the restroom notices my firearm and asks what department I work for. I explain that I'm not a cop and he tells me that he is. I smile and nod. All the sudden the woman outside starts banging on teh door, calling for her husband. We walk out and she tells him "there's a man in there with a gun."

    I explain that it's me she's talking about and her husband explains that I am doing nothing illegal.

    I figured that was that and head back to where my wife now has about a dozen different boxes of shoes.

    A short while later I am approached by Newport News Police officer, the husband of teh busy body woman, and what appears to be an undercover (young with badge on chain in plain clothes) and he asks if we can talk away from the other customers. We move about 10 feet away from where my wife is and he explains that the mall has a no firearms policy. Suprisingly I apologize and state that there were no signs posted. The officer gets kind of testy and says he's telling me that is the policy. I said no problem but was confused because the mall was no longer posted. He states that new management took down the signs because they considered them tacky.

    I tell my wife I am leaving and will be in the car--she has a hard time finding shoes (size 4.5-5) so I wasn't going to discourage her buying what she wanted.

    I wasn't followed nor "escorted". I waited outside until my wife finished shopping, then we left.

    It was rather non-eventful, and I didn't feel like pressing the issue of the posting on the doors. What miffs me more than anything is the busybody wife who must have harped on her husband until he agreed to go talk to security.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Informing folks about, or enforcing, private property policies is not the proper function of the police - you could have been a bit of a dick and told the officer to mind his own business, possibly resultingin him getting private mall management to order you to leave the property. Recall this is what the Manassass police did at Tony's pizza.

    But you probably did the right thing - just leave, but it would have been nice if your wife had left too.

    Anyway, you should make a complaint to the Police Department about their officer either moonlighting while on duty as an employee of the mall, or over-stepping his authority as a police officer - it is one of the two. Just a simple letter or email to the police chief and ask for follow up, naming the officer by name.

    In the meantime, it's great that the mall no longer posts - don't ask don't tell should be in effect whether carrying concealed or openly (required at ABC licensed restaurants).

    I recommend concealed carry, or very discreet open carry in malls, due to the "tradgedy of the commons" security problem - stores which are incentivised to let you carry while actively shopping have no power over the common areas of the mall, whose rules are set by far away detached corporate boards and mall ninja security outfits who may be pretty clueless about state law anyway.



  3. #3
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    Yes, Bonefish Grill is very very good, yet expensive. I mean, everyone looks like a chef...

    Anyways, the first time I OC'd was in Patrick Henry Mall. No one didn't notice, but I guess it was due to holiday shopping (near XMas time) or that I had a 3 inch barrel in a leather holster. Sad to say, but I guess if you have a compact firearm, it's less likely to be noticed.

    Another experience I had was when Shauncey and I decided to eat at Patrick Henry during the summer (didn't have the permit yet) and just before I walked in the food court area a NN LEO approached me and said that he knew OC was legal, but the mall might ask me to leave. He was very polite and professional and seemed to want to avoid going to a call that was avoidable by warning me.

    We went to Cheddars instead.

  4. #4
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    Super Moderator -

    May I suggest that VCDL and other like-minded groups press the VA Legislature to pass a new law explicitly making businesses, which require their customers to be disarmed, to be responsible for their customers' safety from criminal activity of the physically harmful variety and liable for any injury which occurs because a "gun free zone" was violated by a criminal?

    Call it the "Gun Free Zone Liability Act."

    According to Alan Korwin, such a law has the following benefits.

    The bill respects private property rights and allows anyone to declare a "gun-free zone." There is no cost to government. It simply attaches liability if a well-intentioned but fraudulent gun-free zone causes harm.

    The bill had been introduced in Arizona and in Georgia but failed to pass at first. It will be in Arizona again in 2008 and is under consideration in other states. A similar bill has been introduced in New Hampshire in 2008.

    The Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act has excellent value even if it isn't enacted in its first years -- it is a just and common-sense bill that would help protect the public. Resisting its reasonable provisions requires taking the moral low ground -- that you have no right to defend yourself, or that your civil right to arms can be denied by a wall sign. A lot of very bad gun bills are planned, so it's critical to balance that with bills as positive as this one. Ask your legislators to at least look at the bill and support it. Basically, "If you create a gun-free zone, you're liable for any harm it causes."


    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm

    Come on, let's roll!

  5. #5
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    XD Owner wrote:
    Super Moderator -

    May I suggest that VCDL and other like-minded groups press the VA Legislature to pass a new law explicitly making businesses, which require their customers to be disarmed, to be responsible for their customers' safety from criminal activity of the physically harmful variety and liable for any injury which occurs because a "gun free zone" was violated by a criminal?

    Call it the "Gun Free Zone Liability Act."

    According to Alan Korwin, such a law has the following benefits.

    The bill respects private property rights and allows anyone to declare a "gun-free zone." There is no cost to government. It simply attaches liability if a well-intentioned but fraudulent gun-free zone causes harm.

    The bill had been introduced in Arizona and in Georgia but failed to pass at first. It will be in Arizona again in 2008 and is under consideration in other states. A similar bill has been introduced in New Hampshire in 2008.

    The Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act has excellent value even if it isn't enacted in its first years -- it is a just and common-sense bill that would help protect the public. Resisting its reasonable provisions requires taking the moral low ground -- that you have no right to defend yourself, or that your civil right to arms can be denied by a wall sign. A lot of very bad gun bills are planned, so it's critical to balance that with bills as positive as this one. Ask your legislators to at least look at the bill and support it. Basically, "If you create a gun-free zone, you're liable for any harm it causes."


    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm

    Come on, let's roll!
    I'd be willing to say that VCDL may have already pondered this thought and may already be making strides to making this happen.

    One thing I would like to add is that it would be well worth your time to contact your legislator with such an idea or even better yet, take a look at the legislation that Arizona and Georgia attempted to put through and draft similar for VA paying special attention to why it may have failed to pass the AZ and GA legislatures and fix that. Then present that to your legislators and ask them to sponsor it in the legislature.

    VCDL does a lot of great work to support our rights in the great state of VA, but they can't do it alone. VCDL is an all volunteer organization. Any efforts that the private citizen can put forth to assist, I am sure would be greatly appreciated, not only by VCDL, but by all like-minded citizens in this state.

  6. #6
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    I live in Dick Saslaw's Senate district, and Brian Moran, brother of Jim Moran,is my State Rep. I don't think they would consider supporting such legislation. Your other points are good though. For those who live in pro rights areas, by all means, run this idea by them.

  7. #7
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    Mr. Knox at The Firearms Coalition is already working on this issue. Visit the website(firearmscoalition) for more info.

  8. #8
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    I went to Dick's Sporting Goods at Patrick Henry Mall about a month ago in search of ammunition. I asked them about their firearms carry policy, and was told (by the manager) that carrying a firearm while shopping in their store was no problem.

    As Dick's also serves as an entrance to the mall, I asked what the mall policy was. They said they didn't know.

    I returned on Sun 6/30/2008 to purchase a video game for my grandson at EB Games, entering the mall via Dick's. I looked for, but could not find any signs along my path that proclaimed any sort of firearms policy. There were none posted at the entrance to EB Games.

    As a separate note, the Alltel store (located outside the mall) but accessed via the mall perimeter road, has a no fireams sign posted at the entrance.



  9. #9
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    Does everyone go ghostbuster sign hunting? Is there some point system involved and I missed a memo? Unless some place is posted with big sign at standard eye level with wording of "NO GUNS ALLOWED", I'll carry (assuming it's not off limits by state law)



  10. #10
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    rabbit994 wrote:
    Does everyone go ghostbuster sign hunting? Is there some point system involved and I missed a memo? Unless some place is posted with big sign at standard eye level with wording of "NO GUNS ALLOWED", I'll carry (assuming it's not off limits by state law)

    I'm with ya.. and like Pourshot said in another thread.. The Ghostbusters signs "usually" show a sign with a slash thru a revolver. Maybe they don't like revolvers? But I have never seen a No Kimber's sign.. so I carry.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  11. #11
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    I carry where it's legal. I glance at the two doors when entering, no sign, I carry, period, it's not open for discussion.

    Dont print your "Rules Of Conduct" on some stupid assed sign that you post somewhere else than the door, I'm not reading it. Post like you are supposed to, or I'm carrying my firearm.

    If you do post, I won't enter, and I won't spend my $$$ on your property.

  12. #12
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    mp3mogul wrote:
    I carry where it's legal. I glance at the two doors when entering, no sign, I carry, period, it's not open for discussion.

    Dont print your "Rules Of Conduct" on some stupid assed sign that you post somewhere else than the door, I'm not reading it. Post like you are supposed to, or I'm carrying my firearm.

    If you do post, I won't enter, and I won't spend my $$$ on your property.
    Amen! I do a quick glance around the doors for a no gun sign. If I don't see one, then I proceed inside. If I do, I leave and spend my money elsewhere. I also call the manager and let them know they lost my business because of their sign.

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