Gryphon
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Trouble At The Ridpath
My name is Ryan Want and I’m fairly new to opencarry.org, however I am no stranger to legally carrying an unconcealed sidearm. I live in southern Idaho, but just recently returned from a vacation to Spokane, WA with my now fiancée. Weeks before my visit, I read up and studied on Washington State gun law so as to be prepared to deal with any problems that may arise, as well as to hopefully prevent them. Unfortunately, our hotel stay was at the Westcoast Ridpath, 515 W. Sprague Ave. in downtown Spokane where the Convention me and my fiancée were attending was being held.
We arrived at the hotel at around 2:00pm local time on Thursday April 24th and I OC’ed my Springfield XD45 inside to check in. The hotel staff was very friendly at this point and seemed happy to see us back from last year’s convention. Not a word was spoken of the sidearm, which several hotel staff had clearly seen. They asked for my drivers license and credit card, got my room keys and that was that. After taking our luggage up to our room, we proceeded down to the mezzanine lounge area to meet and socialize with other convention goers. I continued to carry throughout the remainder of the day without problem or incident aside from some minor discussion on gun law with other individuals.
The next morning, I again proceeded to openly carry my sidearm with me up until convention check in when all the trouble started. My fiancée and I were standing in line to check in at the registration desk. My plan was to check in, and then just before convention activities began, I would return the weapon to the room in order to comply with the convention policy of no weapons in reserved convention spaces.
However, as I moved to the head of the line, I noticed a man in rather formal clothes who was clearly not with the convention take notice of me and approach at a quickened pace, clearly somewhat agitated. He stepped up to me closer than I felt comfortable having him and in a rather animated way proceeded to tell me that I could not have the firearm in plain view, nor in the hotel as it was against state law and that I was brandishing the weapon. I paused for a moment, uncertain I had heard him correctly, with the growing noise of gathering con goers, then calmly and politely told him that he must be misinformed as neither acts were against state law, and asked him to clarify his statement that I was brandishing.
He then firmly told me that I was the one in the wrong and neglected to explain the brandishing claim (I later found out that his definition of brandishing was having the butt of the gun visible/unconcealed). He again told me to take the weapon to my room or conceal it and that he had better not see it again. At this point, it was clear to me that he was deaf as far as to hearing my arguments so I firmly told him that I wanted to speak to his manager now. He seemed a little taken aback at this and after a pause, he replied in an irritated tone with “fine, sir”. After he left, I finished checking in my fiancée and myself with the reg desk and went to have a seat in the lounge and await the manager I had requested to see.
Fifteen minutes went by before the first man reappeared with a lady whom I can only assume was a manager appeared in the lounge area. I stood up in preparation to reaffirm what I had told the man to the manager but they proceeded to walk directly past me to the registration desk and requested the con security manager. They then moved off to the side out of ear shot and began to feed the security manager for the convention the same false information in regards to state law and such. At this point I was becoming somewhat irritated by all of this and I walked up to the group, looked at the two hotel staff and bluntly told them to “excuse me, but I think you should be addressing me.” The man flatly replied that no, they should not be, finished telling the con security manager his false information, and then the two turned and left.
Unfortunately, the con security manager had been unprepared to deal with any issues in regards to firearms. She turned to me with a note of confusion in her expression as the hotel staff walked away. I immediately apologized to her for the trouble and the fact that they had dragged her into this. I briefly explained state law and again apologized as it had never been a convention related matter. She dismissed it as it did not involve the convention directly, and went about her very busy schedule. My fiancée and I then sat in the mezzanine lounge area for a short time to think things over and cool off before I proceeded downstairs to the front desk and requested to see the security manager. The desk attendant apologized as he was out at the moment. I then asked for someone who could help me in regards to my problem and the attendant replied that he (the security manager) would return in about twenty minutes and that she would have him find me.
I thanked her and returned to the lounge, where I puzzled over her use of the “him” pronoun rather than her, as I had thought the lady from earlier had been the security manager. After waiting for about 25 to 30 minutes, I went back downstairs and asked if he had made it back in yet. She answered that he had not and began to say that she would have him find me when he did arrive, but stopped mid sentence and picked up a cell phone. She then called the security manager, conversed briefly and hung up, informing me that he was just pulling in the parking lot and would be in shortly.
It turns out that the security manager was the same individual who originally confronted me, and as he walked up to the front desk on my weak side, he turned to me looking and acting as though the slate had been wiped clean and there was not one thing wrong. I turned toward him, my still holstered side arm becoming visible to him and told him bluntly but politely that I wanted to see his manager, as I knew he would make little effort to see eye to eye. He became aware of the side arm once again and immediately returned to his unprofessional and irritated state. He told me that he was the security manger and that this was in his jurisdiction, so to speak, thus refusing to allow me to speak to a higher up. I then told him that he was mistaken on Washington state law and that open carry was legal.
He then cut me off, telling me that he had a Washington CPL and it didn’t allow him to carry inside the hotel nor openly. I again began to correct him and explain Washington state law, but was again cut off by him saying that, “oh, so the law I’m required to follow in this hotel, you aren’t required to?” Before I had the opportunity to reply another member of the hotel staff who had walked behind the counter a moment earlier asked what the problem was. I was cut off yet again by the security manager as he went on to tell her that I was refusing to remove or conceal the weapon, that I was brandishing, and that I was mistaken on law. I continued to seek a peaceful resolution, telling him that I was not refusing to remove the weapon but that I needed a valid, factual reason to do so. He cut me off, snapping back that I was refusing to remove it as he had told me to do so half an hour previous. He then turned back to the lady and asked her what he should do about it. She simply told him to call the Spokane PD front desk and ask them about the legality of it all.
At this point, I was hoping that some progress was being made. The security manager asked what the Spokane PD front desk number was. The Lady said she didn’t know and set a phonebook on the counter. Without even opening it, he dialed 911 on his cell phone telling me that there was little point in doing this as he knew he was right and I wrong. He then told the dispatcher that he was looking for the front desk number, that there was a guy with a gun refusing to remove it and brandishing it. He was asked questions such as had I drawn the weapon, made threats, etc. All of which he answered truthfully, save for the brandishing accusation. The dispatcher was not permitted to tell him the actual law, and instead directed him to the front desk whose number he then wrote down on a small pad of paper before hanging up.
He then dialed the front desk number while asking if I would be upstairs. I did not answer as I was not going anywhere. He then glanced at me, put the phone to his ear and picked up the pad of paper before walking away without explanation to a small lounge area, where I promptly followed. He tossed the pad down on a coffee table in a very agitated manner before taking a seat on a couch. I took a seat opposite of him. Not receiving an answer the first time, he hung up, paused for a moment, then dialed again. After a brief discussion in which he once again elaborated all my wrongs, he hung up the phone and told me they said it was illegal.
I continued to attempt to argue fact, but he blatantly cut me off, telling me that not only was it state law, but it was hotel policy. To this I began to reply that if he had said that in the first place, showed me a written copy of policy, I would have been more than willing to place the weapon in my vehicle in the parking garage, but he shot back that it didn’t matter as it was state law. He then told me that this was no longer debatable. That I needed to remove the weapon, put it in my hotel room, or he would call the police and they would make me remove it. At this time the convention was close to beginning so I didn’t bother to argue further with him. I went upstairs and removed the weapon to comply with convention policy and took some time to cool down as I was thoroughly frustrated at this point.
My fiancée and I then returned to the convention and tried to push the unpleasant incident out of our minds and enjoy our vacation. I carry my sidearm for personal defense. At times I require a cane to walk due to a leg problem and thus, my sidearm is sometimes my only protection. Being in an unfamiliar city, larger than the ones I’m commonly used to, I feel it all the more important to carry. Therefore, I refused to leave the hotel without carrying my sidearm. Lacking a concealed permit (soon to be remedied), my only legal option is open carry. Therefore, whenever we would go out to eat or such I would place the weapon on my belt and discreetly make my way out of and into the hotel, so as not to cause trouble.
The day after the initial incident, my fiancée and I went out for a very enjoyable lunch with some very dear companions with good food and great company. It was a great day and all was well until we returned to the hotel to find a group of hotel and convention staff waiting in the lobby to pounce. The con staff stayed off to the side, having been dragged back into the whole affair but knowing it was none of their concern. They didn’t say a word. The hotel staff, however, was less than pleasant. One individual in particular (this was one of the desk staff that was oh so polite and happy to see us when we checked in on Thursday) approached me and in a very rude tone proceeded to inform me that I had been told multiple times that I could not have the gun on the premises, that it was against policy, that I was breaking the law, and that if I persisted and did not take the weapon to my room and leave it there, that I would be arrested and permanently “86’d” from the hotel and barred from future events there.
At this point, I was fed up and I simply told her I wasn’t going to argue anymore, that I was already headed to my room to remove it. She didn’t drop it and again stated that if it was seen again, that would be it. She then took a sheet of paper off the front desk counter and pointed out a highlighted portion on it that stated that no smoking, no pets, and no firearms were permitted on the hotel premises. To this I replied “thank so much for informing me of this when I wore the gun in to check in”. She got even more huffy at this point, stating that it had been signed when I had checked in. I flatly stated that I hadn’t signed anything at check in, to which she replied that the individual who had checked me in had. I simply shook my head and walked past her to use the ratty service elevator as both guest elevators were out of service for the vast majority of our stay.
Another hotel staff member proceeded to follow my fiancée and me onto the service elevator, assumedly to tend to tasks elsewhere in the hotel. When we reached our floor, my fiancée and I stepped of the elevator, again followed by the hotel staffer. Half way to our room, I turned to find him doing a poor job of trying to discreetly follow us to the room, at which point I asked in an irritated manner if I could help him. To this he replied that he was told to find out what room we were staying in. My fiancée and I both demanded why and he replied that it was “for my own personal knowledge. Actually not even my personal knowledge, but for the hotels” and that we could either tell him or he could follow us. To this I answered with the number, extremely irritated by this blatant harassment. He then told me he appreciated it, and turned to leave to which I replied that I did not.
Later on, thanks in great part to my fiancée and one of my dear friends, as well as the hotel’s night shift, a middle ground was established in which I could remove the weapon from my room and continue to carry it when going to other places without the threat of arrest. It was transported to my vehicle in the garage where it remained except for when I left the hotel at which time it resided securely on my hip. While I feel this was an extreme hassle, it was better than nothing at all. The hotel night shift, unlike their day time counter parts were quite friendly and helpful. Other than these incidents, I’ve only had good experiences in Spokane.
Trouble At The Ridpath
My name is Ryan Want and I’m fairly new to opencarry.org, however I am no stranger to legally carrying an unconcealed sidearm. I live in southern Idaho, but just recently returned from a vacation to Spokane, WA with my now fiancée. Weeks before my visit, I read up and studied on Washington State gun law so as to be prepared to deal with any problems that may arise, as well as to hopefully prevent them. Unfortunately, our hotel stay was at the Westcoast Ridpath, 515 W. Sprague Ave. in downtown Spokane where the Convention me and my fiancée were attending was being held.
We arrived at the hotel at around 2:00pm local time on Thursday April 24th and I OC’ed my Springfield XD45 inside to check in. The hotel staff was very friendly at this point and seemed happy to see us back from last year’s convention. Not a word was spoken of the sidearm, which several hotel staff had clearly seen. They asked for my drivers license and credit card, got my room keys and that was that. After taking our luggage up to our room, we proceeded down to the mezzanine lounge area to meet and socialize with other convention goers. I continued to carry throughout the remainder of the day without problem or incident aside from some minor discussion on gun law with other individuals.
The next morning, I again proceeded to openly carry my sidearm with me up until convention check in when all the trouble started. My fiancée and I were standing in line to check in at the registration desk. My plan was to check in, and then just before convention activities began, I would return the weapon to the room in order to comply with the convention policy of no weapons in reserved convention spaces.
However, as I moved to the head of the line, I noticed a man in rather formal clothes who was clearly not with the convention take notice of me and approach at a quickened pace, clearly somewhat agitated. He stepped up to me closer than I felt comfortable having him and in a rather animated way proceeded to tell me that I could not have the firearm in plain view, nor in the hotel as it was against state law and that I was brandishing the weapon. I paused for a moment, uncertain I had heard him correctly, with the growing noise of gathering con goers, then calmly and politely told him that he must be misinformed as neither acts were against state law, and asked him to clarify his statement that I was brandishing.
He then firmly told me that I was the one in the wrong and neglected to explain the brandishing claim (I later found out that his definition of brandishing was having the butt of the gun visible/unconcealed). He again told me to take the weapon to my room or conceal it and that he had better not see it again. At this point, it was clear to me that he was deaf as far as to hearing my arguments so I firmly told him that I wanted to speak to his manager now. He seemed a little taken aback at this and after a pause, he replied in an irritated tone with “fine, sir”. After he left, I finished checking in my fiancée and myself with the reg desk and went to have a seat in the lounge and await the manager I had requested to see.
Fifteen minutes went by before the first man reappeared with a lady whom I can only assume was a manager appeared in the lounge area. I stood up in preparation to reaffirm what I had told the man to the manager but they proceeded to walk directly past me to the registration desk and requested the con security manager. They then moved off to the side out of ear shot and began to feed the security manager for the convention the same false information in regards to state law and such. At this point I was becoming somewhat irritated by all of this and I walked up to the group, looked at the two hotel staff and bluntly told them to “excuse me, but I think you should be addressing me.” The man flatly replied that no, they should not be, finished telling the con security manager his false information, and then the two turned and left.
Unfortunately, the con security manager had been unprepared to deal with any issues in regards to firearms. She turned to me with a note of confusion in her expression as the hotel staff walked away. I immediately apologized to her for the trouble and the fact that they had dragged her into this. I briefly explained state law and again apologized as it had never been a convention related matter. She dismissed it as it did not involve the convention directly, and went about her very busy schedule. My fiancée and I then sat in the mezzanine lounge area for a short time to think things over and cool off before I proceeded downstairs to the front desk and requested to see the security manager. The desk attendant apologized as he was out at the moment. I then asked for someone who could help me in regards to my problem and the attendant replied that he (the security manager) would return in about twenty minutes and that she would have him find me.
I thanked her and returned to the lounge, where I puzzled over her use of the “him” pronoun rather than her, as I had thought the lady from earlier had been the security manager. After waiting for about 25 to 30 minutes, I went back downstairs and asked if he had made it back in yet. She answered that he had not and began to say that she would have him find me when he did arrive, but stopped mid sentence and picked up a cell phone. She then called the security manager, conversed briefly and hung up, informing me that he was just pulling in the parking lot and would be in shortly.
It turns out that the security manager was the same individual who originally confronted me, and as he walked up to the front desk on my weak side, he turned to me looking and acting as though the slate had been wiped clean and there was not one thing wrong. I turned toward him, my still holstered side arm becoming visible to him and told him bluntly but politely that I wanted to see his manager, as I knew he would make little effort to see eye to eye. He became aware of the side arm once again and immediately returned to his unprofessional and irritated state. He told me that he was the security manger and that this was in his jurisdiction, so to speak, thus refusing to allow me to speak to a higher up. I then told him that he was mistaken on Washington state law and that open carry was legal.
He then cut me off, telling me that he had a Washington CPL and it didn’t allow him to carry inside the hotel nor openly. I again began to correct him and explain Washington state law, but was again cut off by him saying that, “oh, so the law I’m required to follow in this hotel, you aren’t required to?” Before I had the opportunity to reply another member of the hotel staff who had walked behind the counter a moment earlier asked what the problem was. I was cut off yet again by the security manager as he went on to tell her that I was refusing to remove or conceal the weapon, that I was brandishing, and that I was mistaken on law. I continued to seek a peaceful resolution, telling him that I was not refusing to remove the weapon but that I needed a valid, factual reason to do so. He cut me off, snapping back that I was refusing to remove it as he had told me to do so half an hour previous. He then turned back to the lady and asked her what he should do about it. She simply told him to call the Spokane PD front desk and ask them about the legality of it all.
At this point, I was hoping that some progress was being made. The security manager asked what the Spokane PD front desk number was. The Lady said she didn’t know and set a phonebook on the counter. Without even opening it, he dialed 911 on his cell phone telling me that there was little point in doing this as he knew he was right and I wrong. He then told the dispatcher that he was looking for the front desk number, that there was a guy with a gun refusing to remove it and brandishing it. He was asked questions such as had I drawn the weapon, made threats, etc. All of which he answered truthfully, save for the brandishing accusation. The dispatcher was not permitted to tell him the actual law, and instead directed him to the front desk whose number he then wrote down on a small pad of paper before hanging up.
He then dialed the front desk number while asking if I would be upstairs. I did not answer as I was not going anywhere. He then glanced at me, put the phone to his ear and picked up the pad of paper before walking away without explanation to a small lounge area, where I promptly followed. He tossed the pad down on a coffee table in a very agitated manner before taking a seat on a couch. I took a seat opposite of him. Not receiving an answer the first time, he hung up, paused for a moment, then dialed again. After a brief discussion in which he once again elaborated all my wrongs, he hung up the phone and told me they said it was illegal.
I continued to attempt to argue fact, but he blatantly cut me off, telling me that not only was it state law, but it was hotel policy. To this I began to reply that if he had said that in the first place, showed me a written copy of policy, I would have been more than willing to place the weapon in my vehicle in the parking garage, but he shot back that it didn’t matter as it was state law. He then told me that this was no longer debatable. That I needed to remove the weapon, put it in my hotel room, or he would call the police and they would make me remove it. At this time the convention was close to beginning so I didn’t bother to argue further with him. I went upstairs and removed the weapon to comply with convention policy and took some time to cool down as I was thoroughly frustrated at this point.
My fiancée and I then returned to the convention and tried to push the unpleasant incident out of our minds and enjoy our vacation. I carry my sidearm for personal defense. At times I require a cane to walk due to a leg problem and thus, my sidearm is sometimes my only protection. Being in an unfamiliar city, larger than the ones I’m commonly used to, I feel it all the more important to carry. Therefore, I refused to leave the hotel without carrying my sidearm. Lacking a concealed permit (soon to be remedied), my only legal option is open carry. Therefore, whenever we would go out to eat or such I would place the weapon on my belt and discreetly make my way out of and into the hotel, so as not to cause trouble.
The day after the initial incident, my fiancée and I went out for a very enjoyable lunch with some very dear companions with good food and great company. It was a great day and all was well until we returned to the hotel to find a group of hotel and convention staff waiting in the lobby to pounce. The con staff stayed off to the side, having been dragged back into the whole affair but knowing it was none of their concern. They didn’t say a word. The hotel staff, however, was less than pleasant. One individual in particular (this was one of the desk staff that was oh so polite and happy to see us when we checked in on Thursday) approached me and in a very rude tone proceeded to inform me that I had been told multiple times that I could not have the gun on the premises, that it was against policy, that I was breaking the law, and that if I persisted and did not take the weapon to my room and leave it there, that I would be arrested and permanently “86’d” from the hotel and barred from future events there.
At this point, I was fed up and I simply told her I wasn’t going to argue anymore, that I was already headed to my room to remove it. She didn’t drop it and again stated that if it was seen again, that would be it. She then took a sheet of paper off the front desk counter and pointed out a highlighted portion on it that stated that no smoking, no pets, and no firearms were permitted on the hotel premises. To this I replied “thank so much for informing me of this when I wore the gun in to check in”. She got even more huffy at this point, stating that it had been signed when I had checked in. I flatly stated that I hadn’t signed anything at check in, to which she replied that the individual who had checked me in had. I simply shook my head and walked past her to use the ratty service elevator as both guest elevators were out of service for the vast majority of our stay.
Another hotel staff member proceeded to follow my fiancée and me onto the service elevator, assumedly to tend to tasks elsewhere in the hotel. When we reached our floor, my fiancée and I stepped of the elevator, again followed by the hotel staffer. Half way to our room, I turned to find him doing a poor job of trying to discreetly follow us to the room, at which point I asked in an irritated manner if I could help him. To this he replied that he was told to find out what room we were staying in. My fiancée and I both demanded why and he replied that it was “for my own personal knowledge. Actually not even my personal knowledge, but for the hotels” and that we could either tell him or he could follow us. To this I answered with the number, extremely irritated by this blatant harassment. He then told me he appreciated it, and turned to leave to which I replied that I did not.
Later on, thanks in great part to my fiancée and one of my dear friends, as well as the hotel’s night shift, a middle ground was established in which I could remove the weapon from my room and continue to carry it when going to other places without the threat of arrest. It was transported to my vehicle in the garage where it remained except for when I left the hotel at which time it resided securely on my hip. While I feel this was an extreme hassle, it was better than nothing at all. The hotel night shift, unlike their day time counter parts were quite friendly and helpful. Other than these incidents, I’ve only had good experiences in Spokane.
