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Thread: Lake Wright Posted

  1. #1
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    I was going to go fishing today but came across This Sign. I know the law pretty well, and know the places I am not allowed to go, But is this sign able to be enforced. This is a public Park/ fishing spot. Any help would be apprieciated. Also The name of the lake is Lake smith, but is by Lake Wright.

    [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Krista/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-7.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Krista/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-8.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Krista/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-9.jpg[/img]

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    You'll need to download it and post it somewhere

    Try www.tinypic.com

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    here is another pic
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    Its probably an old sign that was around before VA State Preemption that hasn't been changed. Though from what I've heard of Norfolk, they would still try to enforce it.

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    Also remember no OC in state parks. I wonder if that applies there though? Anyways just food for thought. As for the sign, who owns the property. If the city of Norfolk owns it, then you would need their permission because it is "private property" it's just that the city of norfolk will allow you on the grounds as long as you abide by their rules. Maybe I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me though

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    Also remember no OC in state parks. I wonder if that applies there though? Anyways just food for thought. As for the sign, who owns the property. If the city of Norfolk owns it, then you would need their permission because it is "private property" it's just that the city of norfolk will allow you on the grounds as long as you abide by their rules. Maybe I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me though
    Yes, you are wrong. It's not private, it's public, since it is a city park (assumtion on my part, based on the big "City of Norfolk" logo on the sign).

    A city park is covered under preemption. Only the state may regulate the carry of firearms on public property.

    cdunlop: activism time. Take good photos, and check with VCDL for guidance, then tell the authorities they need to change their signs.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    soloban wrote:
    Its probably an old sign that was around before VA State Preemption that hasn't been changed. Though from what I've heard of Norfolk, they would still try to enforce it.
    I think it is an old sign. Hereare the current regulations:

    Link: http://www.municode.com/resources/ga...121&sid=46

    Sec. 46.1-50. Regulations applicable to city lakes and city-owned land adjoining city lakes.


    Every permit issued pursuant to section 46.1-48, shall be subject to the following regulations which are hereby established for the use of all city reservoirs and city owned land adjoining such reservoirs:

    (1)All city reservoirs and adjacent city-owned property shall be open during hours designated by the director and posted at major entry points. No person shall go on any city reservoir or adjacent watershed property outside of posted hours unless he is a warden, law enforcement officer, member of a reserve unit or other authorized personnel.

    (2)No person shall use water skis, jet skis, surfboards, open bottom paddle boats, houseboats, tubes, rafts, inflatable boats or similar devices on any city reservoirs except as allowed by the director for non-recreational use.

    (3)Sailing is not permitted on any portion of the city reservoirs.

    (4)No person shall permit stagnant water to accumulate in such person's private boat on any city reservoirs.

    (5)No person shall carry or set off any firecrackers or other fireworks from any boat on any city reservoirs or from any city-owned land adjoining any city reservoirs.

    (6)No person shall swim in any city reservoirs without the permission of the director of utilities.

    (7)No person shall fish from any city-owned land adjoining any city reservoirs, except on property designated therefor at the fishing stations unless otherwise authorized in writing by the director.

    (8)All boating and fishing shall be in compliance with the regulations set by local, state, and federal agencies having jurisdiction.

    (9)No person shall take any fish from any city reservoir except with rod, line and hooks baited with natural or artificial bait unless authorized by the director.

    (10)No person under the age of twelve (12) years shall operate any boat unless accompanied by an adult on any city reservoir.

    (11)No person shall use any boat having an operational outboard motor exceeding twelve (12) horsepower on any city reservoir. The director may grant exceptions for city departments, agencies and contractors.

    (12)Boats shall be launched only from designated launching areas on city reservoirs and at any other launching areas designated by the director of utilities.

    (13)All permits issued pursuant to this section must be produced for inspection when requested by any patrol officers or person of properly constituted authority.

    (14)Except as otherwise provided by law no person shall bring, possess, or drink any alcoholic beverage on the city reservoirs or on any city-owned land adjoining any city reservoir.

    (15)No person shall cause the disturbance of others through the use any sound amplification equipment or radio on the city reservoirs on any city-owned land adjoining any city reservoir.

    (Ord. No. 41,100, § 2, 7-15-03; Ord. No. 42,851, § 2, 9-18-07)

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Knew it was going to be wrong Oh well at least I know the laws better for the next time

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    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.

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    I found a no guns sign last weekend at Leesylvania State Park. It was fairly small, and it was nailed to a tree facing the Potomac river right at the water's edge. It had been there a long time as the tree bark was partially grown around the top of the metal sign.

    Mike, I'll call them tomorrow and ask them to remove the sign immediately.

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    Concealed carry with a permit is OK in Virginia state parks and wildlife management areas, but I believe open carry is prohibited.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Isnt this the spot on northhampton on the right side as you are heading towards the cbbt? If so this has been bought by the city of vb parks and rec. I conceal carry there all the time. esp for the snake factor! Check into vbgov.com

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    Mike wrote:
    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.
    If he says no, offer to fix it for free with your 2" Sharpie.

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    soloban wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.
    If he says no, offer to fix it for free with your 2" Sharpie.
    Do not vandalize or move these signs!

    For starters, they are public property, and we don't want to read about a gun rights activist getting arrested or ticketed for vandalism or theft.

    Also, the idea is to make the park authorities take the sign down or change it, and to learn something about the new laws in the process.

    Not trying to jump on you if you were just joking, of course.

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    soloban wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.
    If he says no, offer to fix it for free with your 2" Sharpie.
    = Joking

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    There have been past threads about people who have, after somepersistence gotten signs taken down.

    Put all your correspondence in writing and be persistent. Rely on VCDL for help. They've got experience with this kind of thing.

    Keep us updated!

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    ama-gi wrote:
    Put all your correspondence in writing and be persistent.
    Snail-mail is preferred, but I got results using email, so that may work as well, as long as you save it all. Plus you can send copies to VCDL execs so they can track the progress.



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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    soloban wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.
    If he says no, offer to fix it for free with your 2" Sharpie.
    Do not vandalize or move these signs!

    For starters, they are public property, and we don't want to read about a gun rights activist getting arrested or ticketed for vandalism or theft.

    Also, the idea is to make the park authorities take the sign down or change it, and to learn something about the new laws in the process.

    Not trying to jump on you if you were just joking, of course.
    Tomahawk, you are waaay toooo responsible a person. But, of course, you are right, again, damn. What ever happened to Henry David Thoreau and his discourse on civil disobedience? Are we to stand idly by while government tramples our rights? Or shall we take action, noble action, and correct government in the same way they would have corrected themselves if they were under the citizens overview? But since they consider themselves an entity unto themselves they see no need to watch and respond to the will of the people. Self willed politicians they are.

    If I see a road sign that says, "NO DANGER AHEAD" when there is danger ahead and I correct the sign then and there to make it say "DANGER AHEAD", am I guilty of a crime????



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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    soloban wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.
    If he says no, offer to fix it for free with your 2" Sharpie.
    Do not vandalize or move these signs!

    For starters, they are public property, and we don't want to read about a gun rights activist getting arrested or ticketed for vandalism or theft.

    Also, the idea is to make the park authorities take the sign down or change it, and to learn something about the new laws in the process.

    Not trying to jump on you if you were just joking, of course.
    Tomahawk, you are waaay toooo responsible a person. But, of course, you are right, again, damn. What ever happened to Henry David Thoreau and his discourse on civil disobedience? Are we to stand idly by while government tramples our rights? Or shall we take action, noble action, and correct government in the same way they would have corrected themselves if they were under the citizens overview? But since they consider themselves an entity unto themselves they see no need to watch and respond to the will of the people. Self willed politicians they are.

    If I see a road sign that says, "NO DANGER AHEAD" when there is danger ahead and I correct the sign then and there to make it say "DANGER AHEAD", am I guilty of a crime????


    The sign isn't violating your rights. The people responsible for the sign are, and it is they you must focus on. Writing letters and getting on record the fact that they are in violation of the law is not "standing idle", it's the way you get things done and train your government servants in the process. Vandalizing or removing a sign changes nothing, least of all the inclination of authorities to continue threatening people with their unlawful policies. It also brings you down to a level beneath your dignity.

    And, BTW, I read Thoreau and was unimpressed. A crackpot of the highest order.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    soloban wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Call the park manager and ask them to fix the sign asap.
    If he says no, offer to fix it for free with your 2" Sharpie.
    Do not vandalize or move these signs!

    For starters, they are public property, and we don't want to read about a gun rights activist getting arrested or ticketed for vandalism or theft.

    Also, the idea is to make the park authorities take the sign down or change it, and to learn something about the new laws in the process.

    Not trying to jump on you if you were just joking, of course.
    Tomahawk, you are waaay toooo responsible a person. But, of course, you are right, again, damn. What ever happened to Henry David Thoreau and his discourse on civil disobedience? Are we to stand idly by while government tramples our rights? Or shall we take action, noble action, and correct government in the same way they would have corrected themselves if they were under the citizens overview? But since they consider themselves an entity unto themselves they see no need to watch and respond to the will of the people. Self willed politicians they are.

    If I see a road sign that says, "NO DANGER AHEAD" when there is danger ahead and I correct the sign then and there to make it say "DANGER AHEAD", am I guilty of a crime????


    The sign isn't violating your rights. The people responsible for the sign are, and it is they you must focus on. Writing letters and getting on record the fact that they are in violation of the law is not "standing idle", it's the way you get things done and train your government servants in the process. Vandalizing or removing a sign changes nothing, least of all the inclination of authorities to continue threatening people with their unlawful policies. It also brings you down to a level beneath your dignity.

    And, BTW, I read Thoreau and was unimpressed. A crackpot of the highest order.
    My dear Sir! Thoreau a crack pot :^)? OK, I'm not sure what all he stood for but I have read his civil disobedience pamphlet and I have to say it was good. I assume the spelling of his name is correct since I copied yours. Anyway, the sign "IS" violating my rights in that it is restricting me of a rightful action, is there a better definition of restricting one's rights? Just as the "no danger" sign is "freeing" me into danger. This sign is restricting me of my rights. Writing letters as you suggest is of course a rightful thing to do but in the interim the sign that violates my rights still stands...what to do about it given the slow and unresponsive nature of government? My dear and noble Sir. Is it a crime to correct the sign to reflect the rights of the people to bear arms in that local? Nay I say. The sign has the responsibility to reflect the law! All signs that do not should be torn down and rightfully so by any law abiding citizen. If a sign is torn down that does relfect the law, THAT citizen should be procecuted to the full extent of said law!

    Edit: Thoreau also wrote a phamplet by the title "Life Without Principle" which I thought to be excellent. Especially the point he made about the all purposeful labor has dignity. It's been 30 years since I last read him.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Anyway, the sign "IS" violating my rights in that it is restricting me of a rightful action, is there a better definition of restricting one's rights? Just as the "no danger" sign is "freeing" me into danger. This sign is restricting me of my rights. Writing letters as you suggest is of course a rightful thing to do but in the interim the sign that violates my rights still stands...what to do about it given the slow and unresponsive nature of government? My dear and noble Sir. Is it a crime to correct the sign to reflect the rights of the people to bear arms in that local? Nay I say. The sign has the responsibility to reflect the law! All signs that do not should be torn down and rightfully so by any law abiding citizen. If a sign is torn down that does relfect the law, THAT citizen should be procecuted to the full extent of said law!

    Edit: Thoreau also wrote a phamplet by the title "Life Without Principle" which I thought to be excellent. Especially the point he made about the all purposeful labor has dignity. It's been 30 years since I last read him.
    A sign is an inanimate object. It can no more violate your rights than your gun can commit crime all by itself.

    The sign is also public property, and there are people authorized to change or remove it. You pay them taxes to do this job, so make them do it.

    In the meantime, practice civil disobedience by OC'ing in full view of the sign, and into the park office to tell them their sign is wrong. Come'on, now, this is Activism 101.

    Besides, this technicallyisn't even civil disobedience, because there is no law telling you you cannot carry a gun in the first place, and the park regulation is no longer valid. If the park authorities try to arrest you or call the police, then you get to be defiant and demonstrate to them their lack of knowledge of the law.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    Anyway, the sign "IS" violating my rights in that it is restricting me of a rightful action, is there a better definition of restricting one's rights? Just as the "no danger" sign is "freeing" me into danger. This sign is restricting me of my rights. Writing letters as you suggest is of course a rightful thing to do but in the interim the sign that violates my rights still stands...what to do about it given the slow and unresponsive nature of government? My dear and noble Sir. Is it a crime to correct the sign to reflect the rights of the people to bear arms in that local? Nay I say. The sign has the responsibility to reflect the law! All signs that do not should be torn down and rightfully so by any law abiding citizen. If a sign is torn down that does relfect the law, THAT citizen should be procecuted to the full extent of said law!

    Edit: Thoreau also wrote a phamplet by the title "Life Without Principle" which I thought to be excellent. Especially the point he made about the all purposeful labor has dignity. It's been 30 years since I last read him.
    A sign is an inanimate object. It can no more violate your rights than your gun can commit crime all by itself.

    The sign is also public property, and there are people authorized to change or remove it. You pay them taxes to do this job, so make them do it.

    In the meantime, practice civil disobedience by OC'ing in full view of the sign, and into the park office to tell them their sign is wrong. Come'on, now, this is Activism 101.

    Besides, this technicallyisn't even civil disobedience, because there is no law telling you you cannot carry a gun in the first place, and the park regulation is no longer valid. If the park authorities try to arrest you or call the police, then you get to be defiant and demonstrate to them their lack of knowledge of the law.
    You are correct sir! +1

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