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Thread: Duty to notify

  1. #1
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    I am vacationing in NC this week from Virginia, with a concealed firearm permit which NC honors. After reading the lengthy attorney generals pamplet, I realized that I did not see an indication of whether I was required to notify a police officer of my firearm if I were to be pulled over. While I know it is usually polite to do so, is it required by law in North Carolina?

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    Yes it is required.

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    If you're carrying concealed, and have a permit to do so, you're required to inform the officer that you have a permit, and that you're armed (preferably in that order ).

    If you're carrying openly, on the other hand, you don't have to say anything. Also, if you're illegally carrying concealed, you're not required by law to inform the officer, either. You are ONLY required to inform if you're a law abiding citizen who already received permission to carry :?.



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    Thank you for your swift replies. I certainly hope the information will not be needed.

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    samdavisrises wrote:
    Thank you for your swift replies. I certainly hope the information will not be needed.
    Lol ya I forgot to mention that. The best thing to do is just not get pulled over .

    So where are you vacationing at?

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    Hello,

    New to the list but not to "packing"

    I wanted to say, I like the way you stated "Also, if you're illegally carrying concealed, you're not required by law to inform the officer, either. You are ONLY required to inform if you're a law abiding citizen who already received permission to carry :?.

    Thanks

    J


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    You do realize that when the officer runs your tag it comes up saying you have a ccw!

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    Am new to list. Hi.

    And no, I didn't know cc would come on his computer. Thanks for the tip.

    m.

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    How can an officer run a check on your vehicle tags and know that you have a concealed carry permit? I have 4 registered vehicles but did not provide my tags when I applied for my CC premit.

  10. #10
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    If a cop runs your license plate, anyperson that is listed at the same address as the car in dmvrecords, sex offender registry, parole records, chp database, etc. comes up in his computer.

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    thats right. it also runs a nation wide warrant check. so if you got a unpaid ticket in another state you better not get pulled over!! lol

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    Thanks... that's good information to know. I guess I've been errant in not having too many run ins with law enforcement.:quirky

    When I lived in California I used to check my records with the DMV every few years. Since I got my concealed carry permit I've tried to be very aware of the regulations in each of the neighboring states that reciprocate with NC.

    After reading the posts on this site it would seem that in non-reciprocating states I should opt for open carry... even though I have a permit. The NorthEast seems to be the most stringent part of the country when it comes to handguns and even rifles.

    My main concern with open carry is with profiling. Depending on the state, city, and neighborhood, I fear that a lot of law enforcement officers prefer to shot first and ask questions later. Some profiled individuals have been shot just on suspicion of carrying... even when no weapon was visible or in their possession.



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    Hi everyone, I have another question related to this one, but felt maybe it would be better to respond in this thread rather than start a new one.

    I don't have a CC permit and have no plans to get one.

    I've reviewed the state laws and as I understand them if you don't have a CC permit you must keep your handgun openly visible when transporting it in your vehicle, and if you do conceal it, it must not be easily accessible to stay within the law.

    Am I correct so far?

    Now here's the problem that I am still trying to get an answer for. I have a truck with a lockable box on the bed, I would like to keep my handgun in there when driving, of course it would not be easily accessible.

    Do I still have a duty to notify in this case?

    Thanks for any response to help clarify....


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    Vinny wrote:
    Hi everyone, I have another question related to this one, but felt maybe it would be better to respond in this thread rather than start a new one.

    I don't have a CC permit and have no plans to get one.

    I've reviewed the state laws and as I understand them if you don't have a CC permit you must keep your handgun openly visible when transporting it in your vehicle, and if you do conceal it, it must not be easily accessible to stay within the law.

    Am I correct so far?

    Now here's the problem that I am still trying to get an answer for. I have a truck with a lockable box on the bed, I would like to keep my handgun in there when driving, of course it would not be easily accessible.

    Do I still have a duty to notify in this case?

    Thanks for any response to help clarify....
    The only people that have a duty to notify are those that have a valid concealedhandgun permit and are carrying a concealed handgun. If you are openly carrying, you needn't notify. If you have a handgun locked away like you have described, you needn't notify. If you are illegally carrying a concealed handgun, you needn't notify. Makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it? :?

    Anyway as far as keeping a gun in your vehicle, if/when you do lock it up, you should probably unload it. I don't know if that's required by law or not, but since it's not being kept in a ready-to-draw position anyway, you might as well drop the mag and unchamber. Or, like you said, you can just keep it loaded and in plain view.

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    I also have a question related to the original post, but with a twist..

    Apologies as this is not open carry related...

    Everyone talks about "must notify is pulled over when concealing". But what if you're just walking and concealing (legally)?

    Must you inform? If so, when is the line crossed? When you and the officer make eye contact or when the officer initiates a conversation?

    -R


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    DreQo wrote:
    The only people that have a duty to notify are those that have a valid concealedhandgun permit and are carrying a concealed handgun. If you are openly carrying, you needn't notify. If you have a handgun locked away like you have described, you needn't notify. If you are illegally carrying a concealed handgun, you needn't notify. Makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it? :?

    Anyway as far as keeping a gun in your vehicle, if/when you do lock it up, you should probably unload it. I don't know if that's required by law or not, but since it's not being kept in a ready-to-draw position anyway, you might as well drop the mag and unchamber. Or, like you said, you can just keep it loaded and in plain view.
    Hi Dre, thanks for the quick response.

    Anyway, here's my basic concern about Duty to Notify, based on what I read elsewhere (can't recall where, I think it was a thread on THR).

    If you notify a LEO in NC you have a firearm in your possession you essentially tripwire a situation where you waive your 4th amendment protections and they can do a "protective sweep" which means they can then search you and your vehicle without a warrant.

    Now I am not a lawyer and I don't know where to look up in the statutes whether this is the case or not, but I would err on the side of caution. If true then you have a situation where exercising your 2nd Amendment rights causes you to waive your 4th amendment protections.

    So that is why the Duty to Notify is important for those who carry.

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    rdinatal wrote:
    I also have a question related to the original post, but with a twist..

    Apologies as this is not open carry related...

    Everyone talks about "must notify is pulled over when concealing". But what if you're just walking and concealing (legally)?

    Must you inform? If so, when is the line crossed? When you and the officer make eye contact or when the officer initiates a conversation?

    -R
    If you are carrying a concealed handgun legally and are approached and addressed by an officer you must tell him that you are in possession of a valid concealed handgun permit and you are carrying a concealed handgun. If he does not approach and address you specifically, you have no duty to notify him that you are carrying.

    Vinny you don't waive your 4th amendment right while carrying a concealed handgun. An officer may only search your vehicle if he has probable cause that you are doing something illegal and carrying a concealed handgun is not illegal as long as you have your permit and you notify the officer. An officer may pat a person down at any time or disarm a person carrying a concealed handgun to insure thatthey are not armed for the officers safety but this applies to everyone and has no bearing on if you are carrying a concealed handgun or not.

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    dubccat51 wrote:
    rdinatal wrote:
    I also have a question related to the original post, but with a twist..

    Apologies as this is not open carry related...

    Everyone talks about "must notify is pulled over when concealing". But what if you're just walking and concealing (legally)?

    Must you inform? If so, when is the line crossed? When you and the officer make eye contact or when the officer initiates a conversation?

    -R
    If you are carrying a concealed handgun legally and are approached and addressed by an officer you must tell him that you are in possession of a valid concealed handgun permit and you are carrying a concealed handgun. If he does not approach and address you specifically, you have no duty to notify him that you are carrying.

    Vinny you don't waive your 4th amendment right while carrying a concealed handgun. An officer may only search your vehicle if he has probable cause that you are doing something illegal and carrying a concealed handgun is not illegal as long as you have your permit and you notify the officer. An officer may pat a person down at any time or disarm a person carrying a concealed handgun to insure thatthey are not armed for the officers safety but this applies to everyone and has no bearing on if you are carrying a concealed handgun or not.
    Basically this is correct. I'd like to add one point, that you need only inform the officer IF the conversation is "official business". If your neighbor happens to be a cop and he asks you how your day was as you get the mail, you don't have to immediately say "I have a permit and I'm armed. My day was good, how about you?".

    Unless you are legally being detained or arrested, no one has the right or authority to touch you or your things. I don't know what the law is about disarming a legally armed citizen for a non-violent offense, but personally I think the "officer safety" crap is, well, crap.

    If there is a specific law regarding if and when an officer has the authority to disarm a legally armed citizen, I would appreciate it if someone could cite it.

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    OK, I actually spent a bit of time researching this.

    There are a couple of ways a cop can engage a search without a warrant, plain view doctrine, the consent, and "protective sweep".

    Protective sweep doctrine was established by Maryland v. Buie which established, a LEO can search incident to an arrest. It is to be is a quick and limited search of a premises, incident to an arrest and conducted to protect the safety of police officers or others. It is narrowly confined to a cursory visual inspection of those places in which a person might be hiding. Here are the conditions established by that case.

    - must be supported by a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the area to be swept harbors an individual posing a danger to those on the scene

    -cannot be a full search and may not be more than a cursory inspection of those spaces where a person may be found

    -may not last longer than is necessary to dispel the reasonable suspicion of danger and "may last no longer than the police are justified in remaining on the premises."

    Since this case, the US vs Gould established that no longer does a "protective sweep" have to be incident to arrest.

    So basically here you have a situation open to interpretation by the LEO of a "reasonable suspicion" he "is in danger" can do a search.

    The question here is whether notifying the LEO that you have a firearm locked away in your trunk of your car is can be a tripwire to "reasonable suspicion" that the LEO is in danger justifying a search without your consent. It doesn't appear to me on my cursory research that they would be justified under the protective sweep doctrine, although they could possibly use it as an excuse in hopes that they find something to bust you with; and with hope that fruit of the poison tree would be ignored by the court at your trial.

    Again, I am just a lowly peon, not a lawyer a judge or anyone familar with the law. Based on all that I have read so far, this "protective sweep" doctrine is a real slippery slope. I'm just concerned that duty to notify might be enough to trigger a search without consent or warrant.

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    Am I missing it, or is no one citing the state statute and providing a quote?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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