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Thread: OCing in Utah

  1. #1
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    So you can only OC in Utah if you have a CC permit? I am probably going to be visiting Utah from New Mexico soon. I am going to have my CC permit from New Mexico, which Utah honors, but I was wondering about the laws in Utah. I thought Utah was a Golden Star State.

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    Anyone 18 years or older in good standing (that I know of) can OC in Utah. But no round in the chamber, or 2 clicks away from firing. If you have a CCW, you can carry fully loaded though.

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    Utah accepts ALL state permits. If you have a NM permit you are good to CC or OC fully loaded anywhere it is legal to do so in utah. (anywhere you can CC you can OC)

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    Where is it stated in the Law that utah accepts all permits? I know that utah does but the reason I am asking is becuase I am not 21 yet. So I just got my Maine non-resident permit (which you can get at 18) and i just want to be able to quote the rule or regulation to a LEO if needed.

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    U.C.A 76-10-523

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


    Otherwise, I wanted to know how one would apply for a Maine permit?

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    Here is how to apply and obatin a Maine Non Resident permit.

    1. Since you are a student and in the military, FBMG will let you attend a conceal permit class here for free. I went to Cabelas where FBMG teaches. You will get a document (used for the Utah Permit) and you will turn that one in for your packet for the maine permit.

    2. http://maine.gov/dps/msp/licenses/weapons_permits.html

    select the non-resdient permit and download. include all the documents and send in.

    I sent in a money order for whatever the amount was.

    3. Wait and wait. It will take them the sixty days to get it back to ya.

  7. #7
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    SickTag wrote:
    So you can only OC in Utah if you have a CC permit? I am probably going to be visiting Utah from New Mexico soon. I am going to have my CC permit from New Mexico, which Utah honors, but I was wondering about the laws in Utah. I thought Utah was a Golden Star State.
    You can OC a handgun in Utah WITHOUT a Permit (Privilege) as long as you are 18+ and no "record". Pistol has to be 2 actions away, meaning NOT chambered. Revolvers, not 1 in the firing line and 1 over. ( 6 shooter will be a 4 shooter and a 5 shooter a 3 shooter).



    TJ

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SickTag wrote:
    So you can only OC in Utah if you have a CC permit? I am probably going to be visiting Utah from New Mexico soon. I am going to have my CC permit from New Mexico, which Utah honors, but I was wondering about the laws in Utah. I thought Utah was a Golden Star State.
    You can OC a handgun in Utah WITHOUT a Permit (Privilege) as long as you are 18+ and no "record". Pistol has to be 2 actions away, meaning NOT chambered. Revolvers, not 1 in the firing line and 1 over. ( 6 shooter will be a 4 shooter and a 5 shooter a 3 shooter).



    TJ
    Unless the revolver is a single action then no round chambered in the firing line is ok (6 shooter is a 5 shooter).

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    rocknsnow wrote:
    So I just got my Maine non-resident permit (which you can get at 18)
    Got it, huh?

    Congrats!

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    i was the youngest person in the forum that started to OC, i was 18 but now im 19. i have 3 facial piercings, and i still OC

    before you OC, learn the laws... because if a cop confronts you and you dont know them, he has you on the hook and hes gonna reel you in, but if you know the laws, you make him feel like a moron lol

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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SickTag wrote:
    So you can only OC in Utah if you have a CC permit? I am probably going to be visiting Utah from New Mexico soon. I am going to have my CC permit from New Mexico, which Utah honors, but I was wondering about the laws in Utah. I thought Utah was a Golden Star State.
    You can OC a handgun in Utah WITHOUT a Permit (Privilege) as long as you are 18+ and no "record". Pistol has to be 2 actions away, meaning NOT chambered. Revolvers, not 1 in the firing line and 1 over. ( 6 shooter will be a 4 shooter and a 5 shooter a 3 shooter).



    TJ
    Unless the revolver is a single action then no round chambered in the firing line is ok (6 shooter is a 5 shooter).
    I talked about this with Clark Aposhian (Chairman of the Review Board at BCI). Give him a call @ 801-560-4836. Give him a call. This is his DIRECT number (cell)

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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    Unless the revolver is a single action then no round chambered in the firing line is ok (6 shooter is a 5 shooter)
    I have to agree with vmaxanarchist. We tried this with b1ack5mith's Ruger Blackhawk, and with only the cylinder under the hammer empty, it still required two actions to fire. Having two cylinders empty on a single action revolver would require four actions for it to fire. This would be like having a semi-auto with no round chambered, and then having two snap caps on the top of the magazine. It is overkill, and unnecessary. A double action must have two cylinders empty.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Here is the "Plain Talk" on U.C.A. 76-10-502 from the book Utah Gun Law, 3rd Edition, by Attorney Mitch Vilos.

    A firearm with a bullet in the chamber is loaded. Pistols and revolvers are loaded if the operation of any mechanism once would cause the gun to fire. A double action revolver with no bullet aligned with the barrel is still considered "loaded" under this definition, if pulling the trigger would cause the cylinder to rotate and fire the gun. A semi-automatic pistol, however is NOT loaded even if it has a magazine or a clip in it, if there is no bullet in the chamber.
    Notice that he mentions a double action revolver, and not a single action. If an attorney that specializes in firearm law was concerned about single action revolvers, he would have mentioned them.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    Unless the revolver is a single action then no round chambered in the firing line is ok (6 shooter is a 5 shooter)
    I have to agree with vmaxanarchist. We tried this with b1ack5mith's Ruger Blackhawk, and with only the cylinder under the hammer empty, it still required two actions to fire.
    NAA makes some single-action revolvers with an additional feature: When the hammer is down you can rotate the cylinder a half-step and the hammer slips down into a purpose-built notch. Not only does it make the gun safe, it also means there is no round in firing position, even with the revolver fully loaded.

    They only make these in .22 caliber (short, long rifle and magnum), though, so they're not particularly powerful self-defense weapons.

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    I do have a revolver but I don't shoot it often. But I believe that both single & double action revolvers always rotate the cylinder to fire the next shot, so wouldn't it be OK to have 5 rounds in a 6 shooter (1 lined with the barrel) because no matter how the weapon is fired, the next chamber position is empty, and thus no single action would cause it to fire because the round aligned with the barrel is rotated out of position and would become the last live round if fired in sequence?

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    timf343 wrote:
    I do have a revolver but I don't shoot it often. But I believe that both single & double action revolvers always rotate the cylinder to fire the next shot, so wouldn't it be OK to have 5 rounds in a 6 shooter (1 lined with the barrel) because no matter how the weapon is fired, the next chamber position is empty, and thus no single action would cause it to fire because the round aligned with the barrel is rotated out of position and would become the last live round if fired in sequence?
    If there is a round lined up with the barrel then it is "in firing position"

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    Even though it is impossible to fire that round, it's considered "in the firing position"?

    Not questioning you, more of a rhetorical question about yet another silly gun law that serves no purpose in stopping gun violence while just making it more difficult to be a law abiding citizen.

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    Yeah. My guess is it is because the lawmaker doesn't know anything about guns and thinks if a bullet is lined up with the barrelthe guncan fire

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    Actually the law was written a long time ago when manyrevolvers didn't have a transfer bar (or other safety device)to prevent the gun from firing if it was struck on the hammer.

    Anybody that carries an older revolver (without some type of safety feature) should never keep a round under the hammer.

    I agree with those saying a single action can have 5 of 6... Just leave the one in the "firing position" empty.

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    xmirage2kx wrote:
    Yeah. My guess is it is because the lawmaker doesn't know anything about guns and thinks if a bullet is lined up with the barrelthe guncan fire
    Are you sure it can't? What about an older SA revolver without a transfer bar that gets dropped? How about a SA auto that has had the hammer lowered onto a live round... are there perhaps older examples that could discharge if the hammer were struck?

    Is the rule legitimate? I'm sure that I do not know the full intent of the rule so I couldn't say. I do however believe that many laws are the way they are simply because it would be too much trouble to legislate for every possible exception. Enforcement would be difficult for the same reason. Thus all guns are loaded with a round in the firing position.

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    althor wrote:
    xmirage2kx wrote:
    Yeah. My guess is it is because the lawmaker doesn't know anything about guns and thinks if a bullet is lined up with the barrelthe guncan fire
    Are you sure it can't? What about an older SA revolver without a transfer bar that gets dropped? How about a SA auto that has had the hammer lowered onto a live round... are there perhaps older examples that could discharge if the hammer were struck?

    Is the rule legitimate? I'm sure that I do not know the full intent of the rule so I couldn't say. I do however believe that many laws are the way they are simply because it would be too much trouble to legislate for every possible exception. Enforcement would be difficult for the same reason. Thus all guns are loaded with a round in the firing position.
    althor, I agree with you on that point as I always have believed. Empty in the firing line and 1 over, wether single or double action revolver.

    TJ


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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    althor, I agree with you on that point as I always have believed. Empty in the firing line and 1 over, wether single or double action revolver.
    I think it should be fine for most SA revolvers to have only the chamber under the hammer empty, and the NAA revolvers can have all chambers loaded, with the cylinder turned so the hammer is between chambers.

    DA revolvers, yes, you pretty much have to have two empty chambers to be Utah-unloaded.

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    swillden wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    althor, I agree with you on that point as I always have believed. Empty in the firing line and 1 over, wether single or double action revolver.
    I think it should be fine for most SA revolvers to have only the chamber under the hammer empty, and the NAA revolvers can have all chambers loaded, with the cylinder turned so the hammer is between chambers.

    DA revolvers, yes, you pretty much have to have two empty chambers to be Utah-unloaded.
    Therefore I, personably, believe that BCI and Legislature didn't want ANY confusion and just put ALL revolvers, wether SA/DA in the same category/interpretation.

    Just my .40

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    althor, I agree with you on that point as I always have believed. Empty in the firing line and 1 over, wether single or double action revolver.
    I think it should be fine for most SA revolvers to have only the chamber under the hammer empty, and the NAA revolvers can have all chambers loaded, with the cylinder turned so the hammer is between chambers.

    DA revolvers, yes, you pretty much have to have two empty chambers to be Utah-unloaded.
    Therefore I, personably, believe that BCI and Legislature didn't want ANY confusion and just put ALL revolvers, wether SA/DA in the same category/interpretation.
    I'm not sure what BCI document you're talking about, but the legislature didn't make any distinctions for revolvers -- the law just says: No round in firing position and it must take at least two manual actions to make the gun fire.

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    The law says nothing about removing 2 rounds from a revolver. Remember, laws are only as good as the interpreter. If you don't have a permit and and want to play Russian Roulette when SHTF, be my guest. Hell, might as well put only one round in the cylinder, cause that's all one really needs. Right?

    76-10-502
    When weapon deemed loaded.

    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.

    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.

    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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