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Thread: Problems at Best Buy

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    class=forumTextHi I am a private security officer and police academy grad in Youngstown Ohio and I was wondering if anybody has some info on there being any laws on open carry in Ohio? I am not talking about being in a vehicle either. I mean just being in public walking around with your gun in plain view? And I am not talking about stores that have signs saying you can't. I'll explain. Today I got off of work and went to a Best Buy in a naboring town. I still had my security uniform with my duty belt which had my Berretta Model 96 in the holster. I went inside without a problem. Wasn't in there for five minutes. I got the CD I wanted and paid for it and just as I was about to step out of the door a guy that was a greeter stopped me and said something like "Your not supposed to have a gun in the store you know" I asked him where the sign was since the Ohio Revised Code states you have to have a sign in your establishment in order to regulate it and it has to be right in the entrance where everyone can see. Well he told me that that goes for any public place which I told him is ******** and you have to have a sign. That there are plenty of places that allow people to have guns on them. He still wanted to argue and I told him off and said I had the right and made sure that everybody could hear it two. The guy looked like a ******* hippy. Probly anti gun. I said fine don't come crawling to me when I am in the store next time and I don't have a gun on me and a guy comes in and slaughters everyone like you hear about so often with mass murder in public places like malls. I really put that son of a bitch down. I told him I know the revised code better than he does and I went to the police academy when I take it that he didn't. I checked the revised code and I couldn't find anything saying you couldn't. It doesn't say it has to be concealed if you have a CCW. And even if you don't you can still carry in plain view as long as you are not in a car. Just on foot. Hell before they passed the CCW people would open carry since they couldn't before then. I couldn't find any law regulating open carry. And to top it off ven that travlers guide said that there is no state law against open carry in Ohio under the open carry section of the book. Most states there isn't anyway. I mean you might get stopped alot by police but in my case I looked like a cop with my black and gray police style uniform and black 8 point service hat. Does anybody have any code numbers I could look up in the Ohio Revised Code or Ohio Administrative Code? And has any buddy else had problems like mine. Do tell.

    "I Just Used Barry For My Person Interests. Though Both You And Barry Seem To Think I Was Following Umbrella's Orders." Albert Wesker Resident Evil

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    While I can't comment about Ohio law, I can comment about Best Buy. I was in buying a digital voice recorder last week and was OCing. Several employees saw my gun, one stopped me, but only to ask what kind it was and inquire about OC laws, etc... We stood in the middle of the aisle and chatted for a few minutes. It was a good experience.

    If a retail employee tells you not to carry, ask to see the manager, then ask him to see the store policy IN WRITING (if, like Best Buy, they don't have it posted plainly at the entrance). Keeping in mind that if they ask you to leave, you do so immediately to avoid a trespassing charge. If the employee/manager asks you to leave and won't show you the store policy, write a letter of complaint to corporate. Even if he does show it to you, write a letter anyway!

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    Yeah this is my first post on here. That is a copy of my post on AR15.com. They directed me here. Nice site I must say. I know now of course that I can open carry if I choose. I also know I can get arrested but they wouldn't be able to charge me though unless they had something else to get me on. And if they didn't I would report it to the Chief or Sheriff and threaten to sue if they don't get the word out that a person can open carry in public. Oh and heres some pics of me in uniform so you can see I didn't look threatening. And for the hell of it there are some poses of me with my Beretta Model 96. Oh and a final note. Yes the pistol was empty in these pics. I locked the slide back and checked the chamber. Showed it to my Dad as well who took the pics. So no negligence there.

















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    Check out some of the other threads in the Ohio Forum, like this one: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum43/9467.html



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    Next time I recommend you play it a little cooler and just brielfy explain that he is incorrect about the law and then go on about your business.

    If an agent of the owner appearing to have competent authority to order you to leave the premises explicity tells you to leave, then drop your merchandise and head for the door.

    And yes, Ohio is like most states, no ban on OC, nor any eprmit required to do so on foot at age 18.

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    Mike wrote:
    Next time I recommend you play it a little cooler and just brielfy explain that he is incorrect about the law and then go on about your business.

    If an agent of the owner appearing to have competent authority to order you to leave the premises explicity tells you to leave, then drop your merchandise and head for the door.

    And yes, Ohio is like most states, no ban on OC, nor any eprmit required to do so on foot at age 18.
    Yeah thing though is he said this as I was leaving. And he didn't ask me to leave. The ***** challanged me about the gun. Not on wanting me to leave. I was just about a foot from the door and he stopped. Me. It was one of those guys who checks packages when the person is about to leave.

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    Albert Wesker wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Next time I recommend you play it a little cooler and just brielfy explain that he is incorrect about the law and then go on about your business.

    If an agent of the owner appearing to have competent authority to order you to leave the premises explicity tells you to leave, then drop your merchandise and head for the door.

    And yes, Ohio is like most states, no ban on OC, nor any eprmit required to do so on foot at age 18.
    Yeah thing though is he said this as I was leaving. And he didn't ask me to leave. The ***** challanged me about the gun. Not on wanting me to leave. I was just about a foot from the door and he stopped. Me. It was one of those guys who checks packages when the person is about to leave.
    You mean the store's official 4th Amendment violater?

    I will never let anyone check my personal property without a warrant, or at least probable cause, and refusing to let them check is not probable cuase.

    It constitutes unreasonable search and siezure.

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    Mike wrote:
    Next time I recommend you play it a little cooler and just brielfy explain that he is incorrect about the law and then go on about your business.

    If an agent of the owner appearing to have competent authority to order you to leave the premises explicity tells you to leave, then drop your merchandise and head for the door.

    And yes, Ohio is like most states, no ban on OC, nor any eprmit required to do so on foot at age 18.
    I agree with Mike 100%. You have to present yourself as a professional,well spoken,polite indivdual to those who don't understand the law. You have to keep your cool no matter what they say. Remember, you represent all of us and you have to do it well.

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    Albert Wesker wrote:

    I told him off and said I had the right and made sure that everybody could hear it two. The guy looked like a ******* hippy. Probly anti gun. I said fine don't come crawling to me when I am in the store next time and I don't have a gun on me and a guy comes in and slaughters everyone like you hear about so often with mass murder in public places like malls. I really put that son of a bitch down. I told him I know the revised code better than he does and I went to the police academy when I take it that he didn't.
    Completely uncalled for. You give the rest of us gun owners a bad name by behaving in this way. I would suggest taking some anger management classes.

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    Albert Wesker wrote:




    class=forumTextHi I am a private security officer and police academy grad in Youngstown Ohio and I was wondering if anybody has some info on there being any laws on open carry in Ohio? I am not talking about being in a vehicle either. I mean just being in public walking around with your gun in plain view? And I am not talking about stores that have signs saying you can't. I'll explain. Today I got off of work and went to a Best Buy in a naboring town. I still had my security uniform with my duty belt which had my Berretta Model 96 in the holster. I went inside without a problem. Wasn't in there for five minutes. I got the CD I wanted and paid for it and just as I was about to step out of the door a guy that was a greeter stopped me and said something like "Your not supposed to have a gun in the store you know" I asked him where the sign was since the Ohio Revised Code states you have to have a sign in your establishment in order to regulate it and it has to be right in the entrance where everyone can see. Well he told me that that goes for any public place which I told him is ******** and you have to have a sign. That there are plenty of places that allow people to have guns on them. He still wanted to argue and I told him off and said I had the right and made sure that everybody could hear it two. The guy looked like a ******* hippy. Probly anti gun. I said fine don't come crawling to me when I am in the store next time and I don't have a gun on me and a guy comes in and slaughters everyone like you hear about so often with mass murder in public places like malls. I really put that son of a bitch down. I told him I know the revised code better than he does and I went to the police academy when I take it that he didn't. I checked the revised code and I couldn't find anything saying you couldn't. It doesn't say it has to be concealed if you have a CCW. And even if you don't you can still carry in plain view as long as you are not in a car. Just on foot. Hell before they passed the CCW people would open carry since they couldn't before then. I couldn't find any law regulating open carry. And to top it off ven that travlers guide said that there is no state law against open carry in Ohio under the open carry section of the book. Most states there isn't anyway. I mean you might get stopped alot by police but in my case I looked like a cop with my black and gray police style uniform and black 8 point service hat. Does anybody have any code numbers I could look up in the Ohio Revised Code or Ohio Administrative Code? And has any buddy else had problems like mine. Do tell.

    "I Just Used Barry For My Person Interests. Though Both You And Barry Seem To Think I Was Following Umbrella's Orders." Albert Wesker Resident Evil
    Too much caffeine!:celebrate

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    Ohio Patriot wrote:
    Albert Wesker wrote:

    I told him off and said I had the right and made sure that everybody could hear it two. The guy looked like a ******* hippy. Probly anti gun. I said fine don't come crawling to me when I am in the store next time and I don't have a gun on me and a guy comes in and slaughters everyone like you hear about so often with mass murder in public places like malls. I really put that son of a bitch down. I told him I know the revised code better than he does and I went to the police academy when I take it that he didn't.
    Completely uncalled for. You give the rest of us gun owners a bad name by behaving in this way. I would suggest taking some anger management classes.
    Your right. I shouldn't have handled it the way I did. Next time I will do it in a better manner. I just have a hot temper. It runs in the family. Gets my adrenaline pumping sometimes. My mothers like that and so was my late grandfather. But anyway I will try not to handle it like that next time someone says something like that. And if I am in there again open carrying and that guy gives me problems then I will just ignor him and continue with what I am doing. Don't even make eye contact. Unless of course he asks me to leave saying he will call the police. Which if he does ask me to leave I will ask him if I can speak to the manager first. If he says no I will leave and call the manager. If he has the same problem I will tell him that he has to post signs on the doors if he doesn't want guns in the store. If that gets me nowhere I will mail a letter to the Best Buy Headquarters. And I do appologise for making you all look bad. This was before I knew of this site. I didn't think too many people in Ohio open carried until I came upon this site. Not much of a reason but another reason I yelled was it felt good because I am not very assertive and have trouble speaking up for myself so it just felt good for a change to have the nerve to stand up for myself. If you had the disorder like I have you would understand. No harm ment and I will avoid such a situation in the end. Once again sorry for those I have offended.

    "Sure I Am Not Human Anymore! But Just Look At The Power I Have Gained! Albert Wesker Resident Evil: Code Veronica X

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    Albert Wesker wrote:
    Which if he does ask me to leave I will ask him if I can speak to the manager first. If he says no I will leave and call the manager. If he has the same problem I will tell him that he has to post signs on the doors if he doesn't want guns in the store. If that gets me nowhere I will mail a letter to the Best Buy Headquarters
    Good plan. It's always best to stay in control, and be extremely polite.

    One slight modification, though: don't suggest that they should post signs. They might decide to do exactly that. Instead, just ask to see their written policy prohibiting customers from carrying. Whether or not the manager does so will be useful for the letter to corporate.

    Happy OC'ing!

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    Your right. I shouldn't have handled it the way I did. Next time I will do it in a better manner. I just have a hot temper. It runs in the family. Gets my adrenaline pumping sometimes. My mothers like that and so was my late grandfather. But anyway I will try not to handle it like that next time someone says something like that. And if I am in there again open carrying and that guy gives me problems then I will just ignor him and continue with what I am doing. Don't even make eye contact. Unless of course he asks me to leave saying he will call the police. Which if he does ask me to leave I will ask him if I can speak to the manager first. If he says no I will leave and call the manager. If he has the same problem I will tell him that he has to post signs on the doors if he doesn't want guns in the store. If that gets me nowhere I will mail a letter to the Best Buy Headquarters. And I do appologise for making you all look bad. This was before I knew of this site. I didn't think too many people in Ohio open carried until I came upon this site. Not much of a reason but another reason I yelled was it felt good because I am not very assertive and have trouble speaking up for myself so it just felt good for a change to have the nerve to stand up for myself. If you had the disorder like I have you would understand. No harm ment and I will avoid such a situation in the end. Once again sorry for those I have offended.
    Well the good news is that you understand the error of your ways! But it's not a big deal... just keep a cool head in these situations from now on.

    I applaud you for exercising your rights and standing up for them. But it becomes a dicey situation when you're confronted by an employee of a commercial business.A commercial business is privately owned, and- for the most part- they can make you leave for just about any reason they want. Just as you are able to make someone leave your home for any reason. So you have to tread carefully when in a business. While asking to see a manager or the store policy is O.K., you should always leave when asked to do so, and then write a letter later. (I understand this wasn't the case in your circumstance.)

    At any rate, don't beat up on yourself too much. Live and learn. Most importantly, you should be commended for having the courage to open carry!


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    swillden wrote:
    Whether or not the manager does so will be useful for the letter to corporate.

    Happy OC'ing!
    Actually, although I would always write to corporate, it probably won't do any good. I had a similar situation at Cabela's last month (similar as in an employee questioned me about being permitted to open carry in his store and in public - which I handled with politeness and respect), wrote to there corporate explaining the situation and have never heard back.

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    To my knowlege, signage is only required of certain government entities (court houses, etc - q.v. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.1212). Private companies can have policies against firearms and post warnings or not, as I understand it. There are certain forms that such signage must substantially conform to if they do post such warnings, but I don't know that they are required to post anything at all.

    -ljp

    p.s. It's bad form pointing the gun at the cameraman like that. I hope you used a timer.


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    ron-357 wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    Whether or not the manager does so will be useful for the letter to corporate.

    Happy OC'ing!
    Actually, although I would always write to corporate, it probably won't do any good. I had a similar situation at Cabela's last month (similar as in an employee questioned me about being permitted to open carry in his store and in public - which I handled with politeness and respect), wrote to there corporate explaining the situation and have never heard back.
    Search around here for "Cabela's". Several others have had issues and had them resolved by corporate. There are some threads with contact information that would be useful to you.

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    This kind of post really makes me mad. Every time one of us open carries a firearm, we represent gun owners everywhere. The public will lump all of us together. All it takes is one person doing what you did to undo any good OCers had accomplished. Open carrying, an uncontrolled tongue, a hot temper, and security guard ego do NOT mix well. The only thing you did was make OCers look horrible. And the pictures of you posing aren't a good idea either. Hopefully if you OC again, you will consider these things before you do so.

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    Albert Wesker,

    I think you have been beat up enough (smile). You look very young........It is good that you came to this site because you will learn so much (like I have, and I am in my 40s). By the way, I was just in Best Buy this past Friday OCing without incident. I had to get my wife a Mother's Day gift.

    Although I have permits from VA, NH, and PA, I OC as often as I can. I get flack about it, but, I still do it. Of course, whenI go to the "hood", I CC (for obvious reasons).

    Stay positive and tell all of your friends about this site. We need more people (like you) to OC so that it will be widely accepted. Make us proud!!

    2nd Amendment.........Use it...........Or, lose it!!:X

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Reminds me of the time many years ago when one of our fine upstandings walked into a local Convenience Store wearing an old cowboy type revolver. You know the type; one look and you decide this idiot just HAS to go to jail for something.

    Well, he was carrying this old revolver completely open. Had an old cowboy holster that tied around his leg and everything. Had a Stetson on and the whole getup. I guess I don't need to say this guy was well known to us and his elevator stopped short of the top floor.

    Well, we placed him under arrest, went through the whole yada yada; even found a crack pipe in his pocket on the pat down.

    Next, a trip to the Prosecuting Attorney, where we were shocked to find out that we couldn't charge him with ANYTHING!! The weapon was out and visible. Couldn't use the crack pipe because the Judge ruled the arrest wasn't lawful to begin with.

    This left us with a piddly charge of Inducing Panic. But we couldn't even get that because the brain surgeon store clerk, who was the only one in the store at the time, decided to go macho and testified that he wasn't alarmed at all.

    But in case you think there's no poetic justice in this world, about 3 AM one morning, 2 perpetrators entered the store and robbed it at gunpoint. Mr. Macho Clerk, who hadn't been alarmed 2 weeks prior, had both "wet and soiled himself" this time.

    I couldn't resist making the remark "I guess you were alarmed this time!"

    It was worth the reprimand.

    Bob

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    RetLeo99 wrote:
    Reminds me of the time many years ago when one of our fine upstandings walked into a local Convenience Store wearing an old cowboy type revolver. You know the type; one look and you decide this idiot just HAS to go to jail for something.

    Well, he was carrying this old revolver completely open. Had an old cowboy holster that tied around his leg and everything. Had a Stetson on and the whole getup. I guess I don't need to say this guy was well known to us and his elevator stopped short of the top floor.

    Well, we placed him under arrest, went through the whole yada yada; even found a crack pipe in his pocket on the pat down.

    Next, a trip to the Prosecuting Attorney, where we were shocked to find out that we couldn't charge him with ANYTHING!! The weapon was out and visible. Couldn't use the crack pipe because the Judge ruled the arrest wasn't lawful to begin with.

    This left us with a piddly charge of Inducing Panic. But we couldn't even get that because the brain surgeon store clerk, who was the only one in the store at the time, decided to go macho and testified that he wasn't alarmed at all.

    But in case you think there's no poetic justice in this world, about 3 AM one morning, 2 perpetrators entered the store and robbed it at gunpoint. Mr. Macho Clerk, who hadn't been alarmed 2 weeks prior, had both "wet and soiled himself" this time.

    I couldn't resist making the remark "I guess you were alarmed this time!"

    It was worth the reprimand.

    Bob
    .........And, the moral of your story is?!?

    2nd Amendment........Use it..........Or, lose it!!:X

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    RetLeo99 wrote:
    ...This left us with a piddly charge of Inducing Panic. But we couldn't even get that because the brain surgeon store clerk, who was the only one in the store at the time, decided to go macho and testified that he wasn't alarmed at all...
    You bring up a point much discussed here - that is the threat, or the actual issuance of a ticket (or is it "summons"?) for Inducing Panic or Disorderly Conduct. These possible chargeshave stopped many a potential OCer from doing so - but one must ask "How can I exercise a right without such worry?

    In reading the law, it seems like to be guilty of one or the other, the "alarm" must be real - a standard that is in many cases very subjective.

    You have come to this site, presumably because you support the exercise of OC (or maybe because you're a SPY! LOL) - so what do you think about the question above?

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    I know a lot of younger LEO's that do not know that OC is legal. The act of OCing is not inducing panic. Just because someone gets scared when they see a firearm being carried, is(or should be) their problem. The sheep are just not used to seeing it happen anymore

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    RetLeo99 wrote:
    Reminds me of the time many years ago when one of our fine upstandings walked into a local Convenience Store wearing an old cowboy type revolver. You know the type; one look and you decide this idiot just HAS to go to jail for something.

    Well, he was carrying this old revolver completely open. Had an old cowboy holster that tied around his leg and everything. Had a Stetson on and the whole getup. I guess I don't need to say this guy was well known to us and his elevator stopped short of the top floor.

    Well, we placed him under arrest, went through the whole yada yada; even found a crack pipe in his pocket on the pat down.

    Next, a trip to the Prosecuting Attorney, where we were shocked to find out that we couldn't charge him with ANYTHING!! The weapon was out and visible. Couldn't use the crack pipe because the Judge ruled the arrest wasn't lawful to begin with.

    This left us with a piddly charge of Inducing Panic. But we couldn't even get that because the brain surgeon store clerk, who was the only one in the store at the time, decided to go macho and testified that he wasn't alarmed at all.

    But in case you think there's no poetic justice in this world, about 3 AM one morning, 2 perpetrators entered the store and robbed it at gunpoint. Mr. Macho Clerk, who hadn't been alarmed 2 weeks prior, had both "wet and soiled himself" this time.

    I couldn't resist making the remark "I guess you were alarmed this time!"

    It was worth the reprimand.

    Bob
    Well Bob, what are you trying to say - That people who open carry should automatically be thrown in jail? Because, it does not matter what kind of gun (as long as it is legal) one carries! Also, that is pathetic, judging someone just by their appearance! Someone might be wearing that type of gun and hat because they were either just coming from or on their way to a Cowboy Action Shooting even. Or, a person might just choose to wear a single action revolver and a cowboy hat - its their right!!!

    It sounds like you need to learn the law a little better!!! Open carry is legal!!! And, you had no right to do anything but politely smile and say hello. You are lucky the person did not press charges against you!



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    Yea, I guess I was a bit taken back by RetLeo99's comments, too.

    You know the type; one look and you decide this idiot just HAS to go to jail for something.
    Sounds very JBT-ish, Bob. :X

    Well, he was carrying this old revolver completely open. Had an old cowboy holster that tied around his leg and everything. Had a Stetson on and the whole getup. I guess I don't need to say this guy was well known to us and his elevator stopped short of the top floor.
    If someone is open carrying and looking a bit shabby, it's O.K. for you to arrest them?

    Well, we placed him under arrest
    For what?!?!?!

    even found a crack pipe in his pocket on the pat down.
    What justification did you have to detain him or do a Terry frisk? Did you have RAS that a crime had been committed, was being committed, or was about to be committed?

    Next, a trip to the Prosecuting Attorney, where we were shocked to find out that we couldn't charge him with ANYTHING!!
    GOOD.

    The weapon was out and visible.
    GOOD.

    Couldn't use the crack pipe because the Judge ruled the arrest wasn't lawful to begin with.
    GOOD CALL.



    This left us with a piddly charge of Inducing Panic.
    And, um, just who was panicking at the sight of him? You?

    But we couldn't even get that because the brain surgeon store clerk, who was the only one in the store at the time, decided to go macho and testified that he wasn't alarmed at all.
    Did it, um, ever occur to you that the store clerk was not alarmed?

    But in case you think there's no poetic justice in this world, about 3 AM one morning, 2 perpetrators entered the store and robbed it at gunpoint. Mr. Macho Clerk, who hadn't been alarmed 2 weeks prior, had both "wet and soiled himself" this time.
    So you're celebrating the fact that his store was robbed? :shock:

    PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEtell me you weren't really an LEO, Bob. :X

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    RetLeo99 wrote:
    Reminds me of the time many years ago when one of our fine upstandings walked into a local Convenience Store wearing an old cowboy type revolver. You know the type; one look and you decide this idiot just HAS to go to jail for something.

    Well, he was carrying this old revolver completely open. Had an old cowboy holster that tied around his leg and everything. Had a Stetson on and the whole getup. I guess I don't need to say this guy was well known to us and his elevator stopped short of the top floor.

    Well, we placed him under arrest, went through the whole yada yada; even found a crack pipe in his pocket on the pat down.

    Next, a trip to the Prosecuting Attorney, where we were shocked to find out that we couldn't charge him with ANYTHING!! The weapon was out and visible. Couldn't use the crack pipe because the Judge ruled the arrest wasn't lawful to begin with.

    This left us with a piddly charge of Inducing Panic. But we couldn't even get that because the brain surgeon store clerk, who was the only one in the store at the time, decided to go macho and testified that he wasn't alarmed at all.

    But in case you think there's no poetic justice in this world, about 3 AM one morning, 2 perpetrators entered the store and robbed it at gunpoint. Mr. Macho Clerk, who hadn't been alarmed 2 weeks prior, had both "wet and soiled himself" this time.

    I couldn't resist making the remark "I guess you were alarmed this time!"

    It was worth the reprimand.

    Bob
    You arrested him for commiting what crime? After reading over your comments a couple of times to make absolutely sure I didn't misunderstand, I would have to say that you and your partner completely violated his civil rights and are lucky that a full-fledge lawsuit wasn't involved in the aftermath.

    And then to boast about it being worth the reprimand... :shock:

    This site is dedicated to the lawful and opencarriage of arms and it's members are staunch 2nd amendment supporters, not to mention 4th amendment supportersand all the others as well. To come here as a new posterand display your thoughts in such an insensitive andcallous manner to the objective of this site is startling.. :?
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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