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Thread: Political activism and OCing

  1. #1
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    Friends,

    I'm a little disappointed in the poor response I've received to my recent requests for assitance at various political conventions. In fact, a grand total of TWO people from this list have offered any assitance at all. Now, if this is because you are already working hard on someone's campaign, I apologize in advance. If not, feel free to be offended by this post.

    We have the gun and self-defense laws we do in Utah only because some good folks have spent a LOT of time working to protect and advance good laws, while working to repell bad laws. People like Scott Engen, Will and Sarah Thompson, Bill Clayton, John Spangler, Clark Aposhian, and others have literally paid their dues on these issues and we are all beneficiaries of their efforts. From shall issue permits, to one of the fewest off limits locations in the nation, to some pretty good OC laws, to no registration, we all benefit in one or more ways from years of effort from those who have long been invovled in RKBA in Utah. Some of these guys are still actively involved. Others have had to move on to other efforts or otherwise reduce their involvement. But they all left Utah RKBA better than they found it.

    What are YOU doing to help RKBA for your children, or anyone else?

    Post about OCing into Walmart and there are 100 responses. Plan an OC dinner and 20 people show up.

    But ask for a couple hours of time to hand out flyers or otherwise help pro-gun (or defeat anti-RKBA) candidates at a political convention on a Saturday morning and one can hear the virtual crickets chirping. It looks a bit like the old story of the Little Red Hen.

    WHAT GIVES?

    Walking around OCing is fine. But it, of itself, does NOT win elections.

    Saturday we lost Aaron Tilton in convention in Utah county. He's been replaced by someone who is probably not nearly as good on guns. Curt Bramble avoided a primary and will be returning to the Senate where his record on RKBA is mixed at best. The Washington County convention a week earlier resulted in two GOP nominees (and almost certainly final legislators) who are both poor on guns.

    The Salt Lake County GOP convention is this Saturday, May 3, the GOP State convetion is a week later on the 10th. Several very pro-RKBA candidates face very tough races including Sens. Madsen, Waddoups, and Buttars.

    NOTHING but shear political involvement and will prevents our gun laws from being radically changed next January and February. NOTHING.

    NOTHING prevents a new legislature, full of gun haters from making OC (with or without a permit) illegal. And don't think for a moment that the Utah SC, or even a very good decision out of the Heller case is going to provide any judicial protection if the Utah legislature decides to start changing our gun laws for the worse.

    How many hours do most of us spend over the course of a month on this board alone, let along several others? How much money do we spend on ammo, guns, gun parts and accessories, and related activities?

    If you want to see Utah remain at the forefront of respecting RKBA, I highly recommend you make it a priority to get involved politically. The upcoming conventions are a fine way to do it. If you are a delegate, great. If not, make sure your delegates know who the good (read pro-gun) candidates are. Volunteer to help a pro-gun candidate at convention for 2 hours. Baby sit the kids so your better half can attend convention as a delegate or volunteer. Maybe consider writing a modest check to a candidate. But one way or another, get off the computer long enough to actually protect your right to OC.

    Paying dues to the NRA or even local gun group is NOT, in itself, enough. "Educating" the populace or even local cops by OCing will not do it. Show up and get involved. I GUARANTEE that the anti-gun people (this year most notably in the form of the Utah teachers' union) are. Their voices are being heard and they are electing their people to office. ARE WE? ARE YOU?

    Charles Hardy

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  2. #2
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    I am just starting out here but I would love to get involved!

    I really only have my time to give, but would part with that freely for the cause. The best times for me are weekday evenings, please let me know what I can do to help!

    Scott Thompson
    mwasa254@gmail.com

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    I, too, would love to help how I can. It is rather difficult for me to find spare time from working full-time and going to school an additional full-time.
    However, if you know of any events in Salt Lake County where I would be able to help, let me know and I will do what I can.

    Thanks,

    Dave Higham
    sgthigham@comcast.net

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    Maybe our OC meets should be something that will support this effort, weather we OC'n to it or not.

    I dont know a whole lot about the politics that were just stated but I would like to learn who there is in office or running that will help make things better as a whole or look somewhat communist.

  5. #5
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    Friends,

    I'm a little disappointed in the poor response I've received to my recent requests for assitance at various political conventions. In fact, a grand total of TWO people from this list have offered any assitance at all. Now, if this is because you are already working hard on someone's campaign, I apologize in advance. If not, feel free to be offended by this post.

    We have the gun and self-defense laws we do in Utah only because some good folks have spent a LOT of time working to protect and advance good laws, while working to repell bad laws. People like Scott Engen, Will and Sarah Thompson, Bill Clayton, John Spangler, Clark Aposhian, and others have literally paid their dues on these issues and we are all beneficiaries of their efforts. From shall issue permits, to one of the fewest off limits locations in the nation, to some pretty good OC laws, to no registration, we all benefit in one or more ways from years of effort from those who have long been invovled in RKBA in Utah. Some of these guys are still actively involved. Others have had to move on to other efforts or otherwise reduce their involvement. But they all left Utah RKBA better than they found it.

    What are YOU doing to help RKBA for your children, or anyone else?

    Post about OCing into Walmart and there are 100 responses. Plan an OC dinner and 20 people show up.

    But ask for a couple hours of time to hand out flyers or otherwise help pro-gun (or defeat anti-RKBA) candidates at a political convention on a Saturday morning and one can hear the virtual crickets chirping. It looks a bit like the old story of the Little Red Hen.

    WHAT GIVES?

    Walking around OCing is fine. But it, of itself, does NOT win elections.

    Saturday we lost Aaron Tilton in convention in Utah county. He's been replaced by someone who is probably not nearly as good on guns. Curt Bramble avoided a primary and will be returning to the Senate where his record on RKBA is mixed at best. The Washington County convention a week earlier resulted in two GOP nominees (and almost certainly final legislators) who are both poor on guns.

    The Salt Lake County GOP convention is this Saturday, May 3, the GOP State convetion is a week later on the 10th. Several very pro-RKBA candidates face very tough races including Sens. Madsen, Waddoups, and Buttars.

    NOTHING but shear political involvement and will prevents our gun laws from being radically changed next January and February. NOTHING.

    NOTHING prevents a new legislature, full of gun haters from making OC (with or without a permit) illegal. And don't think for a moment that the Utah SC, or even a very good decision out of the Heller case is going to provide any judicial protection if the Utah legislature decides to start changing our gun laws for the worse.

    How many hours do most of us spend over the course of a month on this board alone, let along several others? How much money do we spend on ammo, guns, gun parts and accessories, and related activities?

    If you want to see Utah remain at the forefront of respecting RKBA, I highly recommend you make it a priority to get involved politically. The upcoming conventions are a fine way to do it. If you are a delegate, great. If not, make sure your delegates know who the good (read pro-gun) candidates are. Volunteer to help a pro-gun candidate at convention for 2 hours. Baby sit the kids so your better half can attend convention as a delegate or volunteer. Maybe consider writing a modest check to a candidate. But one way or another, get off the computer long enough to actually protect your right to OC.

    Paying dues to the NRA or even local gun group is NOT, in itself, enough. "Educating" the populace or even local cops by OCing will not do it. Show up and get involved. I GUARANTEE that the anti-gun people (this year most notably in the form of the Utah teachers' union) are. Their voices are being heard and they are electing their people to office. ARE WE? ARE YOU?

    Charles Hardy
    Well, Charles,

    I am ALWAYS willing but time and $ sometimes may not be enough of. You tell TIME, DATE and PLACE and I will do my darndest to be there. The purpose to come is OCing, right ????

    TJ

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    usSiR wrote:
    Maybe our OC meets should be something that will support this effort, weather we OC'n to it or not.

    I dont know a whole lot about the politics that were just stated but I would like to learn who there is in office or running that will help make things better as a whole or look somewhat communist.
    This is one of the best ideas I've heard and I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it myself.

    There are several very pro-gun legislators running who need help at either the SLCo or Utah State GOP conventions including:

    Mike Waddoups, one of the original sponsors of Utah's shall issue CCW law over 10 years ago and the key member who helped stop the open carry bill after it was hijacked and turned into a ban on OC at colleges.

    Mark Madsen, who has sponsored several pro-gun bills in his short time in the legislature including the "Katrina no confiscation" bill that became law this year, permitless car carry that has not passed, and parking lot preemption that passed the senate and was killed by house leadership.

    Crhis Buttars who has tirelessly stood for our rights and literally dragged himself up from a sick/death bed last year to help advance Madsen's car carry bill out of a hostile committee.

    All are being challanged by various groups that are either overtly or generally hostile to RKBA including the teachers' union, homosexual groups, etc.

    Waddoups and Buttars both need help at the SLCounty GOP convention this coming Saturday at the South Towne expo center in Sandy.

    Madsen needs help for a couple hours the following Saturday morning at the State GOP convention at UVSC.

    Contact info is

    Madsen: 801-361-4787, www.votemadsen.com, mmadsen@utahsenate.org
    Waddoups: 967-0225, mwaddoups@utahsenate.org
    Buttars:561-0535, dcbuttars@utahsenate.org

    A couple of hours on a Saturday morning might be the difference in how the next session goes, and certainly sends a message about gun owners supporting their friends.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    Well, Charles,

    I am ALWAYS willing but time and $ sometimes may not be enough of. You tell TIME, DATE and PLACE and I will do my darndest to be there. The purpose to come is OCing, right ????

    TJ
    Thanks.

    See my post above with contact info for 3 great senators on RKBA who need some help. Contact and see what can be done for each. I don't expect OC will be a problem.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  8. #8
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    Piper, call these guys and invite them to the OC dinner on May 14th! Encourage them to OC! They might have much better luck recruiting some volunteers (and I know I would love to meet them)!

  9. #9
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    ScottyT wrote:
    Piper, call these guys and invite them to the OC dinner on May 14th! Encourage them to OC! They might have much better luck recruiting some volunteers (and I know I would love to meet them)!
    Scotty,

    Inviting them to the OC meet on the 14th is a fine idea. I suggest that those who show up to volunteer at conventions on either the 3rd or the 10th extend a PERSONAL invitation.

    But if your support of a candidate for office depends, in even the slightest degree on whether he OCs, you are going to be VERY disappointed.

    This State, and the nation, even the world, is full of people who own and carry guns who don't think that you and I and the rest of the commoners have any need nor right to do so. One of the most dangerous lines I hear at legislative hearings starts with "I own guns, but...."

    Owning guns, carrying guns, and exactly HOW to carry a gun are INTENSELY personal decisions. And I don't give a rip what decision a legislator makes on any of those questions for himself. All I care about is how he votes on laws that affect MY ABILITY to make those decisions for myself. If he votes the right way, I don't care if personally hates guns. If he votes the wrong way, him carrying a rocket launcher OC doesn't help me a bit.

    What are YOUR priorities when it comes to supporting a candidate for office?

    Sadly--and I'm going to be painfully frank here--your comment demonstrates a common problem among gun owners. We can always find some excuse for NOT supporting a candidate. Their personal choice of how, or even whether, to carry a gun is among the LAMEST reasons I've ever heard. A couple of these guys were voting not just to protect, but to ADVANCE RKBA since before a lot of folks on this board were old enough to even legally own a handgun. But you suggest that they might not be worthy of your support unless they OC a gun?!?!?:shock:

    I assure you, all of these guys have been in office long eough that if you want to find a reason not to support them, you can find one that is far more substantive than their personal choice of whether or how to carry a gun. It might be a vote on some tax policy. Or maybe on some moral issue. Or school vouchers. Or seat belts. At some point, these guys have cast a different vote than you would have liked them to on some issue. I've yet to find ANY two, mature, thinking adults who agree 100% of the time.

    BUT, if you are concerned with protecting (much less advancing) RKBA in Utah, all three of these guys have PROVEN themselves time and again as being among the best you could have in office.

    Based on their votes, and their efforts off the floor among their colleagues both recently and over their terms of service they have PROVEN themselves worthy of gun owners' support.

    I sure hope your shallow attitude and looking for excuses is NOT the majority opinion among gun owners. Otherwise, we will find we have NOBODY in the legislature who supports our rights. I swear, sometimes we are our own worst enemies. Plenty of free time to go to the range. Plenty of money for ammo, guns, or accessories. But ask for a couple hours one or two Saturdays ever couple of years, or Twenty spot to help support good candidates and there is suddenly a host of idiotic reasons why the guy might not be worthy of such minor efforts.

    Volunteer to help solidly pro-RKBA legislators. Or don't. The choice is yours. But don't presume to think that their personal choice of how or whether to carry a gun is a material, or even rational metric on which to base that choice.

    Aplogies for this rant to those who have been willing and anxious to get involved rather than looking for lame excuses.



    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    I understand how you interpreted my comments the way you did, I should have been a bit more careful in my composition, as your interpretation of those comments was way off.

    I was merely saying that it would be cool to see them OC if they wanted to. Whether they do or not has nothing to do with my decisions on who to support in the political arena, as I will carefully examine the entire platform of each candidate and make my conclusions and cast my support based on that evaluation (and their RKBA stance is quite close to the top of my list of issues that are important to me).

    It was NOT my intention to imply that not OCing to our dinner would make a candidate "unworthy," as that notion is, as you pointed out, completely ridiculous. I am in complete agreement with you on pretty much everything you said above, especially the point about making the "intensely personal" decision to carry a gun.

    Again, I am sorry that I wasn't clearer in my previous statement, instead of:
    Piper, call these guys and invite them to the OC dinner on May 14th! Encourage them to OC! They might have much better luck recruiting some volunteers (and I know I would love to meet them)!
    I should have said something like this:
    Piper, call these guys and invite them to the OC dinner on May 14th! I know I would love to meet them. If they carry a gun or are comfortable with it, encourage them to OC! I know I would love to see politicians who exercise their rights in the same way that we do!
    I really would love to see a politician OCing, but that would not be a factor in making my decisions on who to vote for. I can understand and appreciate that OCing could be a bad decision for a candidate and a good way to alienate a lot of people who may have supported him otherwise.




    Anyway...

    I would still like to get involved, but I regularly work on Saturdays and my only free time is generally weekday evenings. Is there anything to be done during that time? Maybe closer to November?

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    "either the 3rd or the 10th "

    Where and what time ??? All the specifics please. Will you be there, Charles. ?

    TJ

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    ScottyT wrote:
    I understand how you interpreted my comments the way you did, I should have been a bit more careful in my composition, as your interpretation of those comments was way off.


    I really would love to see a politician OCing, but that would not be a factor in making my decisions on who to vote for. I can understand and appreciate that OCing could be a bad decision for a candidate and a good way to alienate a lot of people who may have supported him otherwise.




    Anyway...

    I would still like to get involved, but I regularly work on Saturdays and my only free time is generally weekday evenings. Is there anything to be done during that time? Maybe closer to November?
    Thank you for your clarification. My apologies for going off so strongly.

    I would urge you to call one or more of the candidates to see how you might be of help. A couple of hours making phone calls to delegates the Friday evening before convention to remind them to attend might be a huge help.

    Heaven forbid any of these guys get forced into a primary, they will have great need for help for the primary election over the next couple of months.

    For most candidates, the general election is of less concern than convention or a primary. But help from gun owners is greatly appreciated at any stage of the process.

    Please, contact one or more of the candidates I listed, or any other good pro-RKBA candidates you may know and let them tell you how you might best help them.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    "either the 3rd or the 10th "

    Where and what time ??? All the specifics please. Will you be there, Charles. ?

    TJ
    See above. May 3rd is the SLCounty GOP convention held at the South Towne Expo Center in Sandy. For most candidates, the work will take place between about 0700 and 1200 hrs. I will not be at this convention as my contribution to the County convention this year is to play Mr. Mom so my better half can attend the convention as a delegate from our precinct. Sens. Waddoups and Buttars could use help at this convention.

    May 10th is the State GOP convention held at UVSC (or whatever inflated name it is getting now). Again, heavy lifting for candidates will be from about 0700 to about 1200 hrs. Sen. Madsen needs help at this convention. I am trying to adjust work schedule to be at this convention, but I tend to take enough time off during the legislative session to testify on bills that my flexibility is a bit limited this time of year. If possible, I will be there and maybe with some of my family to boot.

    None of us can do everything; and we all have lives outside of politics. But if we all do a little, a whole lot of good gets done.


    Again, please contact these candidates directly to see how you might be of assistance. Help at convention is always needed. Often someone making a couple dozen phone calls the night before to remind delegates to attend is a very valuable service. Sometimes just somebody to stop and pick up the T-shirts or snacks on the way to convetion is what is really needed.

    The vast majority of politics is very simple, leg or grunt work that almost anyone can do, but not nearly enough people will do.

    Thank you again for your willingness to help.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    utbagpiper wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    "either the 3rd or the 10th "

    Where and what time ??? All the specifics please. Will you be there, Charles. ?

    TJ
    See above. May 3rd is the SLCounty GOP convention held at the South Towne Expo Center in Sandy. For most candidates, the work will take place between about 0700 and 1200 hrs. I will not be at this convention as my contribution to the County convention this year is to play Mr. Mom so my better half can attend the convention as a delegate from our precinct. Sens. Waddoups and Buttars could use help at this convention.

    May 10th is the State GOP convention held at UVSC (or whatever inflated name it is getting now). Again, heavy lifting for candidates will be from about 0700 to about 1200 hrs. Sen. Madsen needs help at this convention. I am trying to adjust work schedule to be at this convention, but I tend to take enough time off during the legislative session to testify on bills that my flexibility is a bit limited this time of year. If possible, I will be there and maybe with some of my family to boot.

    None of us can do everything; and we all have lives outside of politics. But if we all do a little, a whole lot of good gets done.


    Again, please contact these candidates directly to see how you might be of assistance. Help at convention is always needed. Often someone making a couple dozen phone calls the night before to remind delegates to attend is a very valuable service. Sometimes just somebody to stop and pick up the T-shirts or snacks on the way to convetion is what is really needed.

    The vast majority of politics is very simple, leg or grunt work that almost anyone can do, but not nearly enough people will do.

    Thank you again for your willingness to help.

    Charles
    I will be there Saturday. I believe SGTJensen will be there to (if he is permitted by the Boss).

    Just sent an Email to Each of the Senators where I expressed my Thanks for their Great and Endless Efforts in Utah Gun Laws and RBKA. I also told them that I will be at the South Towne Expo Center on Saturday. I invited them to the Meet at Golden Corral on the 14th @ 7PM if their schedules would permit.

    TJ

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    Just got back from the GOP convention. We had a great time! UTOC-45-44, b1ack5mith, and myself were there. When we arrived we helped Senator Michael Waddoups set up his stuff. We were going to help Senator Chris Buttars also, but he had some helpers show up early. When all of the delegates began to show up, it got pretty packed. So the three of us found an empty booth to stand in front of. Tons of people began to talk to us about open carry, and some thought that we had a booth reserved there for us. We easily educated more than thirty people about open carry today. Here are a few photos that we took.

    This is me, Utah's Attorney General Mark Shurtleff (with a Glock 20) and TJ.




    This is the three of us with Senator Michael Waddoups. He prevented HB473 from becoming law.



    This is Travis, Dell "Super Dell" Schanze, and TJ. Dell is the libertarian candidate for Governor of Utah.




    And here is Travis, Dell Schanze and I.


    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    I'm sorry that I couldn't make it today. I know there's another one next week at UVU, and I'd be happy to be there. Is anyone else going as well?

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    I plan on attending next week.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    fun OC kevin and TJ! i loved it, had a freakin blast! we gotta go someplace again soon... i wish i could OC at the one next week but i dont have the permit :/

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I plan on attending next week.
    I will too as it looks right now.

    This was an AWESOME (TOTALLY) day as I had the chance to spend some time with Govenor Candidate Dell Schanze and Utah Attorney General Shurtleff. I personally invited the both of them to our dinner on the 14th @ 7Pm at Golden Corral. Both excepted hoping that their schedules will cooperate. It would be Great to hear something from them at them time. How they hope too see the future of Utah.

    Good Stuuuuuff.

    Thanks Charles, for "kicking" our butts.

    TJ

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    I had a photo shoot today! I wish I could have been there, looks like you guys had a great time!

    I would love to get more involved, but I work pretty much every Saturday, which really sucks sometimes...

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    Thanks Charles, for "kicking" our butts.

    TJ
    No. THANKS to the three of you. :celebrate:celebrate

    When the kids and I picked up my wife from the convention she reported that Sen. Buttars had won the nomination on the second round of balloting (4 candidates on the first round) with 60.2% of the vote; and that Waddoups had easily won the nomination in his district as well. This means in SLCo the gun grabbers have been all but shut out this cycle. :celebrate State wide, they have unseated only one of our good guys so far, Rep. Aaron Tilton, and that was over some development issues down in Mapleton rather than anything the gun haters can claim credit for.

    It is helpful beyond my ability to describe here for these candidates to have had VISIBLE assistence from gun owners. Yet another advantage of OC: the candidates KNOW who you are as you are there helping them.

    I must warn you all though, one of the few things I've found as much fun and as addicting as shooting, is political involvment. Stick with it and you will be AMAZED at how much impact a very small number of highly dedicated people can have. The world really is run by the tiny number who bother to show up. And there is nothing like a little new blood in the ranks to really get everyone excited.

    If at all possible, attend the State GOP convention next week. Again, Sen. Madsen could use an hour of your time Friday evening to dry run things and then a couple of hours Saturday AM.

    And, be sure to mark you calendars now to attend the neighborhood caucuses March of 2010.

    THANK YOU again. You guys are awesome.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  22. #22
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    Thanks Charles, for "kicking" our butts.

    TJ
    No. THANKS to the three of you. :celebrate:celebrate

    When the kids and I picked up my wife from the convention she reported that Sen. Buttars had won the nomination on the second round of balloting (4 candidates on the first round) with 60.2% of the vote; and that Waddoups had easily won the nomination in his district as well. This means in SLCo the gun grabbers have been all but shut out this cycle. :celebrate State wide, they have unseated only one of our good guys so far, Rep. Aaron Tilton, and that was over some development issues down in Mapleton rather than anything the gun haters can claim credit for.

    It is helpful beyond my ability to describe here for these candidates to have had VISIBLE assistence from gun owners. Yet another advantage of OC: the candidates KNOW who you are as you are there helping them.

    I must warn you all though, one of the few things I've found as much fun and as addicting as shooting, is political involvment. Stick with it and you will be AMAZED at how much impact a very small number of highly dedicated people can have. The world really is run by the tiny number who bother to show up. And there is nothing like a little new blood in the ranks to really get everyone excited.

    If at all possible, attend the State GOP convention next week. Again, Sen. Madsen could use an hour of your time Friday evening to dry run things and then a couple of hours Saturday AM.

    And, be sure to mark you calendars now to attend the neighborhood caucuses March of 2010.

    THANK YOU again. You guys are awesome.

    Charles
    "If at all possible, attend the State GOP convention next week. Again, Sen. Madsen could use an hour of your time Friday evening to dry run things and then a couple of hours Saturday AM."

    ???

    I/We know about Saturday and will more than likely attend. What is the time and place for friday night, Charles ???




  23. #23
    State Researcher
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    I/We know about Saturday and will more than likely attend. What is the time and place for friday night, Charles ???


    Not sure of the details. Last time I spoke with Sen. Madsen he mentioned they were hoping to do a quick walk through Friday evening.

    He mostly needs "tour guides" to help delegates find their way from the registration booth to whatever back 40 room is used for his Senate District Caucus.

    Give his campaign a call or email to get details.

    Thanks again.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  24. #24
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    OK, had some more fun today! UTOC-45-44 and I went to the State Republican convention today at Utah Valley State College. As soon as we parked and began to walk in, we found Rep. Curtis Oda and Mitch Vilos in the parking lot. We walked to the doors of the David O. McKay events center, and just before we went in, we were spotted by UVSC campus police. We entered the building, and they found us about 10 minutes later.

    They asked us to show our Concealed Firearm Permits, to which we complied since we needed them to carry in a school. We were then instructed to conceal, or we would be ordered to leave. Mitch Vilos was still with us, so we began a debate with the officers. Two of them were very professional and polite, while their Sergeant was anything but. The officers claimed that two members from the Utah BCI recently "trained" them, stating that open carry was unlawful in a school.

    After much debate, we agreed to cover up until the Attorney General was available to let them know we were OK. The two officers we fine with us open carrying, but said they were just doing what they were instructed to do. The two officers walked with us to our cars, where TJ put on his vest, and I untucked my shirt. On the way to the car, we actually received a number of positive comments from others. One guy said "Open Carry! All right!"

    About 30 minutes later, the two officers came back to find us. They informed us that they spoke to Mark Shurtleff, and that he said that we were legal to open carry, as long as the weapons were not loaded. :? We were a bit miffed by this information, but could not argue since it came from the A.G. Plus we were just happy to be able to open carry the rest of the day. So we thanked the officers, and told them we would go unload. We went into the mens room, unloaded or firearms, and I tucked my shirt back in.

    TJ can chime in with his account of the events, as I am sure that I have left out a lot of details. Since actions speak louder than words, here are some photos of us open carrying at UVSC.

    This is myself, Mitch Vilos, UTOC-45-44, and Clark Aposhian.



    This is TJ, Officer Smith, Officer A. Smith, and Dell Schanze. Yes, they are both Smiths!



    And one with me and the same people above.



    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  25. #25
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    It was as Super Dell wouls say -"TOTALLY AWESOME".

    The story was pretty much as SGTJensen said and I was glad that I had Clark Aposhian, Mitch Vilos and Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who is the State Chief Officers, speed dials on my Ph and it was resolved VERY fast.

    The thing the was told us wrongfully was that we had to unload and open carry. As "permit holders" we are excempt to carry loaded per 76-10-505. And the AG has to have this corrected even on STATE (Public) School Ground. But at least we were able to OC and Educated the Peopel as they once again asked ALOT of questions.

    I feel honored as an immigrat that just became a U.S Citizen in januari to help the People inderstand their RIGHTS.

    It was an AWESOME day.

    TJ

    P.S Mitch will be at the next Meet and share what happended, what was good and what was NOT so good. D.S



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