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Thread: Orange County Open Carry

  1. #1
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    4/27/08

    After applying for and being denied a CCW permit, my attention has been drawn towards lawful unloaded open carry. I have been watching this site and others for a while reading about the relevant laws and other's experiences. After careful review of the risks and benifits, I finally got up the courage to exercise my rights.

    My parents have a very open mind about firearm rights in general and were more than willing to be silent witnesses for my first time out. I figure, as far as credible character witnesses go they must be near the top of the list right? They needed to go grocery shopping so I figured that would be a great place to start. I live in a school zone so I had to lock up my firearm and put it in the truck. Our first stop was a diner located on the outside of the local mall. I holstered my firearm in the car parkinglot, turned on my voice recorder, and we walked in. The counter was a little high so I do not think the hostess even noticed. When we sat down the people in the booth across the isle from us glanced over once or twice but never said anything audible. We ate lunch and paid our bill and were on our way. We were there for about 1/2 an hour or so, plenty of time to have the police respond if they were called.

    Since there were no school zones between the diner and the grocery store I carried openly in the truck. Passed two openly armed security guards walking in front of the store on the way in. I am positive they saw me (my strong side was to them and I was pushing the cart) but neither said anything. We spent over an hour and a half in the store making our way from one side to the other. Being a Sunday afternoon it was pretty packed, not only with patrons but employees stocking shelves also. I received a few glances but not a single word by anyone. The only acknowledgement of my armed status came from the bagger at the checkout line. 3/4 of the way through bagging the groceries I saw him lean over to the side craning his neck to get a good look at my hip. Like he had just realized it and wanted to make sure of what he saw. He smiled at me and I smiled back and he went right back to bagging as if nothing happened. Later while unpacking the groceries at home my father made note that the bagger had said under his breath "We have a police officer with us." I wish I would have heard him say it so I could have corrected him.

    All in all I had spent over 2 hours openly carrying my firearm in public with narry an audible comment directed to me much less the panic in the streets that some proclaim will happen. One more example that as long as you come across as polite and confident the sheeple will not be bothered by an armed person in their midst.

    There is only one thing that I would have done differently: after walking through the majority of the store I dropped a bag. When I looked down to pick it up I noticed that while my voice recorder was running, I had forgotten to turn on my lapel mic. When going over my recording it seems that I only had about 20 minutes of actual conversation and almost 2 hours of nothing. Believe me, I will not be making that mistake again.

    Sorry that this post is so long. I think I rambled a bit. If anyone wants to critique anything that I have said please feel free. I welcome any constructive comments and look forward to continued open carry where feasable.

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Congratulations on your first open carry.

    With the exception of the lapel mic being 'off', it sounds like a pretty sucessful outing. Dont concern yourself with being long winded- Its certainly more engaging when there is sufficient detail to take the reader there.

    As it has been stated a few times before, most people react to someone open carrying with the assumption that the armed person is either police or otherwise 'authorized' to do so. Others arent even aware, unless it is pointed out to them. Its because of these things that the police are seldom summoned.

    You dont say what you carry, what kind of holster, or how you are carrying your ammunition. Just curious- if you dont care to say,.. thats cool too.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  3. #3
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    ...As it has been stated a few times before, most people react to someone open carrying with the assumption that the armed person is either police or otherwise 'authorized' to do so. Others arent even aware, unless it is pointed out to them. Its because of these things that the police are seldom summoned...
    I pride myself on not looking like a LEO. I wear well worn shirts and jeans, and I can't remember that last time I shaved before going out on the weekend. For those of you I met at the OC dinner: that's how I always look when I go out. I often wear my "Students for Ron Paul" T-shirt, which I think would be a big hint that I'm not a LEO - it says I'm a student right there on the shirt...

    So, for those of you who don't naturally look like a couch potato... may I suggest a T-shirt bearing a witty yet true slogan, such as:



    ( found at http://www.thoseshirts.com)
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    You dont say what you carry, what kind of holster, or how you are carrying your ammunition. Just curious- if you dont care to say,.. thats cool too.
    I was wearing my 3" Kimber 1911 in a galco "Cop Slide" hoslter (why is it so hard to find good retention holsters for a 3" 1911?) with two magazines in a magazine holster on the other side of my belt.

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    So, for those of you who don't naturally look like a couch potato... may I suggest a T-shirt bearing a witty yet true slogan, such as:
    I have different feelings about that. A) At least for my first few times out in public I want to look as innocuous as possible. Until my confidence comes up a bit. While I know what I am doing is legal it is still a bit nerve racking. B) Personally, I am not looking to make a political statement when I carry. To me, it is all about securing my safety in an otherwise unsafe and unpredictable world. If given the choice I would much rather carry concealed to be honest.

    That is not to say that I do not condone those that do though. In fact I applaud you (and others) that continually fight for the freedoms that I enjoy. I am just not quite ready to be on the front lines of that fight yet. For the moment anyway.

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    Where in OC did you OC? I am in Seal Beach and there are schools/preschools all around me. Pretty tough to open carry in this small town.

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    Without going into too much detail it was not too far south of where the 5 and 405 split.

    I do feel you about the whole school zone thing though. So many overlapping circles it is like a mine field. Don't forget that its K-12 listed in 626.9 and not preschool.

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    I remembered about the K-12 deal. School me on this though.....is it only a school dedicated to K-12 or any school with any students from k-12? Such as elementary school k-5, the junior high from 6-8, and high school 9-12. Are they all included - or just a huge k-12 school?



    Also about alcohol....can I OC into a grocery store and buy groceries along with a 6 pack of beer? or is any type of alcohol possesion banned while OC'ing?

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    Budd wrote:
    or is any type of alcohol possession banned while OC'ing?
    No.

    San Fran does have an ordinance against carrying in a bar. It might be unconstitutional considering how much the State has legislated in both the alcohol and firearms fieldsseparately.

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    Budd wrote:
    I remembered about the K-12 deal. School me on this though.....is it only a school dedicated to K-12 or any school with any students from k-12? Such as elementary school k-5, the junior high from 6-8, and high school 9-12. Are they all included - or just a huge k-12 school?



    Also about alcohol....can I OC into a grocery store and buy groceries along with a 6 pack of beer? or is any type of alcohol possesion banned while OC'ing?
    I recommend you do some reading on the topic of 626.9- School zones are not exclusive to one type of school... Elementary, Middle, and High Schools all create school zones in 626.9- Further any location where a teacher is educating students as a part of required instruction is technically a 'school zone'. Pre-schools, day cares, commercial tutoring businesses are not included in this statute.

    And alcohol and open carry- this depends on where you live. In most cases there is no prohibition to open carry while purchasing, possessing or consuming alcohol. In San Fransicko, they have ordinances on the books relating to possession in places that sell alcohol. I am not aware of any State regulation though... Which is kinda neat in the respect that those who beg permission from the issuing authority are prohibited from consuming anyalcohol as a licensee. If you are unlicensed and OC, there is no restriction- other than what city or county ordinance may impose.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  10. #10
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    Budd wrote:
    I remembered about the K-12 deal. School me on this though.....is it only a school dedicated to K-12 or any school with any students from k-12? Such as elementary school k-5, the junior high from 6-8, and high school 9-12. Are they all included - or just a huge k-12 school?



    Also about alcohol....can I OC into a grocery store and buy groceries along with a 6 pack of beer? or is any type of alcohol possesion banned while OC'ing?
    I recommend you do some reading on the topic of 626.9- School zones are not exclusive to one type of school... Elementary, Middle, and High Schools all create school zones in 626.9- Further any location where a teacher is educating students as a part of required instruction is technically a 'school zone'. Pre-schools, day cares, commercial tutoring businesses are not included in this statute.

    And alcohol and open carry- this depends on where you live. In most cases there is no prohibition to open carry while purchasing, possessing or consuming alcohol. In San Fransicko, they have ordinances on the books relating to possession in places that sell alcohol. I am not aware of any State regulation though... Which is kinda neat in the respect that those who beg permission from the issuing authority are prohibited from consuming anyalcohol as a licensee. If you are unlicensed and OC, there is no restriction- other than what city or county ordinance may impose.
    Isn't this all beside the point? After all, we do have state preemption, so those pesky local ordinances are meaningless in regards to open carry in CA.

    I've open carried while having a beer with dinner on several occasions. One time I even sat at the bar and had a beer with some friends. Neither my friends nor the guy taking accepting my money had a problem with this.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

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    Thanks for the clarification guys. Any problems since we homeschool our kids?

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    Budd wrote:
    Thanks for the clarification guys. Any problems since we homeschool our kids?
    Have you requested written permission from yourself to possess firearms in your school zone?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    ConditionThree wrote:
    Budd wrote:
    Thanks for the clarification guys. Any problems since we homeschool our kids?
    Have you requested written permission from yourself to possess firearms in your school zone?
    Absolutely - the Board voted - yes!

  14. #14
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    Budd wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Budd wrote:
    Thanks for the clarification guys. Any problems since we homeschool our kids?
    Have you requested written permission from yourself to possess firearms in your school zone?
    Absolutely - the Board voted - yes!
    Actually, the board cannot decide this, only the 'district superintendant' (or person authorized by same) can grant permission:

    626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
    Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
    (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
    knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
    paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
    permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
    designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
    specified in subdivision (f).
    (my emphasis added)



    Of course, this section doesn't apply on private property, so you don't need permission until you are in a 'public' place, which the court may extend to include your front yard.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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